Romans 13 and Ephesians 6:12(Thanks to 3NL1GHT3ND1)

So awhile back I posted a Thread asking for people to point out any logical flaws within the Bible. I quit replying on the thread, because enlightend1 posted what was one of the most challenging contradiction anyone has brought up in the Bible. I plan to read the post and reply to ones that really peak my interest with a post and the person the comment came from in parentheses as I have here. I took time to study the verse with the rest of Scripture to see if I was missing some of the meaning, and this is the conclusion I came to.

Romans 13 talks about submitting to the authorities, because God put them in place. As I studied the Scripture, I came across John 19. In John 19, Pilate speaks to Jesus and ask him "Whence art thou?" And Jesus gave him no response, at which Pilate tells Jesus he has the power to crucify or release him. Jesus responds by saying, "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he hat that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." There are two things we must realize about the God of the Bible. He is the Creator of all things, invisible and visible (Colossians 1:16). Logically, we must conclude that God has a hand in the creation of evil, but I believe it is more correct to say that God created the potential for evil. It is also interesting to note, that Colossians not only says that all things are made by him, but for him. This means that that potential for evil must serve some kind of purpose for him. I believe that the reason God did this is to give humans choice. If this did not exist, then there would be no meaning to our choosing to align ourselves with God, because there really wouldn't be another option. Secondly, Satan is the god of the world(2 Cor. 4:4), however God allows this of Satan, and he is only given that power because God gave it to Him. This is illustrated not only in Job when Satan must ask Gods permission to tempt Job, but also in Luke 4:6 in which Satan says, " I will give you all their AUTHORITY and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want." The logical response of Jesus would have been to dispute Satan if it were not true. Romans 13 talks about submitting to the authorities as Law Enforcers, because that is what God has ordained them as. This is why Jesus tells Pilate his power to pass judgement on a matter of law was given by God(Jesus came to die so it would make since that God sent him to Pilate, a person who would have the sacrifice preformed even though that is an evil choice[ choice of evil working for his purpose]). So while God may ordain the authorities that pass Judgement on things like trial and what is to be made Law it is important to remember that God allows Satan to own ALL AUTHORITY of the Earth. So if Satan chooses to tempt a leader into doing something that God told him not to it is up to the Leader to choose which path to take. According to prophecy our world leaders will choose to lead us into evil. This being a conspiracy website I believe most of you can see that happening already. Many of our political leaders and celebrities are said to be Theistic Satanist.

Now lets look at Ephesians 6:12, and see if it actually contradicts Romans 13.

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Now, with everything that I have pointed out above I see no contradiction here, and to see why we will have to look at verse 11.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

In context, this passage is talking about putting on the armour of God, to resist the devil. We know from Luke that Satan has power to give authority to anyone he pleases on earth. I can name one person right off the bat, because his plan was obvious. Hitler. Satan's sole purpose is to make God wrong. If God's wrong then he is not God. At first, he attempted to stop the Messiah from being born by corrupting our DNA creating nephlim, or stop the Messiah from being born by having certain rulers order the deaths of babies, or by an idol that required child sacrifice. He failed at this, so his next logical step would be to destroy the Jews. If the Jews do not exist certain prophecies can never come true. Hitler was appointed to govern laws by God I have no problem accepting that. However he chose to disobey God's commandments, and chose evil just like other rulers in the past. However, what always happens to those rulers in the Bible? They lose a war and their country or city completely destroyed. Tyre is an example. I do not think it coincidence that the Nations United against Germany.

This is the honest conclusion that I came to through study of Scripture. I do not see a contradiction unless you remove other parts of the Scripture.

That's solid interpretation right there. We must let Bible interpret Bible and take EVERYTHING in context. Good work!

but consider the possibility that the majority of the Jews are actually Ashkenazi (from the Khazar region) and are Europeans...who invaded Palestine with help from Hitler. Vide, the Transfer agreement. and British support. Vide Balfour declaration.
Now what?????? the Jews that originated in the ME and at the time of Christ are practically invisible and inconsequential.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


In reading your post my mind went to the Hegelian Dialectic ..So we have God good Evil bad and the new creation(synthtics) . Just as tptb want to move society one way or another using conflict resolution so it seems to be with God .Many times I have battled over issues inside only to yield to a loving God and His word .

The reality of Eph.6:12 is one of the greatest truth's to recognize and put on the appropriate armor .Far too often in my past ,failing to consider this has caused me to suffer at it's hands .The seemingly contradictions will always or should lead us to looking closer as you have done .Another point is from the book of James that is common in us all and that is our double mindedness ( cognitive dissonance ).I see it in a lot of the different denominations and seems to be the divide between the different groups based on most non essentials to our faith . S&F for you ..best of luck on this thread ..peace

darkstar57
but consider the possibility that the majority of the Jews are actually Ashkenazi (from the Khazar region) and are Europeans...who invaded Palestine with help from Hitler. Vide, the Transfer agreement. and British support. Vide Balfour declaration.
Now what?????? the Jews that originated in the ME and at the time of Christ are practically invisible and inconsequential.

Blood lines are very important to God. As far as Ishmael being a descendant of Shem’s you’re correct. The word Hebrew first appears in Genesis 14:13 and refers to Abraham. Many believe that Hebrew is derived from Eber, one of Abraham’s ancestors. But Ishmael wasn’t a Hebrew for two reasons. One is that Ishmael was half Egyptian, but the main one is that God commanded Abraham to disinherit Ishmael because he was not God’s intended heir for him. (Genesis 21:8-13) Isaac was the son through whom the line would continue with the birth of Isaac’s son Jacob, later called Israel. God made Ishmael the father of the Arab nations.

It’s also true that many of the inhabitants of Israel today are Europeans whose ancestors may be the Khazars, who were driven west from the area around the Caspian Sea to settle Eastern Europe over 1000 years ago. But included among them is the Remnant of Israel that God promised always to preserve. It’s for the sake of this remnant that God created the nation Israel in 1948. It was a dramatic fulfillment of prophecies in Ezekiel 36 & 37 that man was led to accomplish by the Creator of the Universe, not something we did on our own.

Through your reading you’ve come across the Palestinian argument that even if Israel is the Jewish Promised Land, the people in it today aren’t the ones God gave it too. That argument is inconsistent with Bible Prophecy, and is used by Israel’s enemies to justify their efforts to destroy the Jews.

Also note that Isaiah 56:3-8 gave gentiles who bound themselves to God full rights and privileges in Israel, so even if there weren’t any Jews left from the original 12 tribes, seeing the Jews of today as a fulfillment of Rev. 2:9 & 3:9 would be contrary to God’s promise to them in Isaiah.

Source

This is from wiki.

Ashkenazi Jews constitute around 35–36% of the Israeli population (and 47.5% of Israeli Jews)

So it is not hard for me to believe that the descendants of the 12 tribes are represented in the Israeli population.

reply to post by darkstar57

I have read that as well but there are Jews all around the world and who keep a record of their family tree .No doubt you would find some that claim to be and are not but they still seem to be in our world . I often wonder if the Zionist may have been a move by Satan to make a move that God seen coming and wrote about it ....peace

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

It has also been suggest that there were lost tribes when Assyria took the northern kingdom but there were people from those tribes that had moved to the south and went into captivity in Babylon .
and later returned when Persia conquered Babylon .

the2ofusr1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

It has also been suggest that there were lost tribes when Assyria took the northern kingdom but there were people from those tribes that had moved to the south and went into captivity in Babylon .

Thanks for the info, and support!

reply to post by the2ofusr1


There is a Johns Hopkins study of the genetic origin of Jews that tends to confirm the European origin of the Ashkenazi. Also, I recall 90 pc of Israelis are Ashkenazi... take a walk down Rothschild blvd and visit the Israeli Supreme court...note the plaque on the way in, Built for Israel by the Rothschilds...take a video tour of the interior of the court and the non Christian symbolism in there will make your skin crawl.
The info in the Wiki is continuously edited from Israel. so you must be careful with what is there.
Now compare and contrast...the Rothschild banking family with the major Semitic speaking group, the Arabs. who are nearly identical genetically with the original ME Jews. not much similarity...

reply to post by darkstar57

It's the Rothschild connection that makes me wonder if it's not part of a evil plan to bring all the Jews (home) in one place to get rid of them .Yes there are a lot of Masonic symbolism over there . I think it,s the Fuel Project on Youtube Know Your Enemy that has a good clip on it as well as other good clips to kind of make sense of our present time frame .

darkstar57
reply to post by the2ofusr1

 

There is a Johns Hopkins study of the genetic origin of Jews that tends to confirm the European origin of the Ashkenazi. Also, I recall 90 pc of Israelis are Ashkenazi... take a walk down Rothschild blvd and visit the Israeli Supreme court...note the plaque on the way in, Built for Israel by the Rothschilds...take a video tour of the interior of the court and the non Christian symbolism in there will make your skin crawl.
The info in the Wiki is continuously edited from Israel. so you must be careful with what is there.
Now compare and contrast...the Rothschild banking family with the major Semitic speaking group, the Arabs. who are nearly identical genetically with the original ME Jews. not much similarity...

David Goldstein, a geneticist and director of the Center for Human Genome Variation at the Duke University School of Medicine, said that the questions of whether there was a Khazar contribution to the Ashkenazi Jews’ lineage, or exactly what percentage of mitochondrial variants emanate from Europe, cannot be answered with certainty using present genetic and geographical data. Even if a set of variants are present in a specific region today, that doesn’t mean that the region always had that set of variants. Some variants could have been lost due to drift, or perhaps migration altered the balance of variants present in the population.

“These analyses really do not have any formal statistical inference about evolutionary history in them,” Goldstein wrote in an e-mail to The Scientist. “They are based on direct interpretations of where one finds different [mitochondrial DNA] types today. And so the analyses are largely impressionistic.”

Nevertheless, Goldstein noted that the new study “does offer better resolution of the [mitochondrial DNA] than earlier ones, and so the suggested interpretation could well be right.”

www.the-scientist.com.../articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

Basically, I believe we need a bit more time before we can consider this fact or even theory.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


So true ...It's one thing that it may suggest but that can only help support a theory that may be untrue .When looking at the scientific debate in climate ,its not hard to see how some of what is considered to be fact one day become just someone manipulating the data .I think it was Chuck Messiler that said the data will say what ever you want it to if you torture it enough .

Yeah...but....... paragraphs

graphuto
That's solid interpretation right there. We must let Bible interpret Bible and take EVERYTHING in context. Good work!

Absolutely ,

Interpretation of any ancient text, especially Religious should be viewed properly.

You need to view the text from the perspective with which it was written, often time something that is neglected with modern Christians.

Context is as important as whats actually written, things that in reference to the bible include taking in the Jewish world view of the time it was written, which illuminates certain things.

A few examples, the age Jesus was when he began is usually the age Men would come into their Fathers work.

Or the general Views of the Gentiles by the Jews, which gives so much more meaning to several parts of the NT.

things like numbers, and metals, have references to real work idioms of the time, just like we say things like trial by fire, when things like Brass are mentioned they too carry similar connotations.

Study of the Bible is a life long enlightenment process.


Hermaeneutics

Hermeneutics /hɜrməˈnjuːtɪks/ is the theory of text interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts.[1][2] The terms "hermeneutics" and "exegesis" are sometimes used interchangeably. Hermeneutics is a wider discipline that includes written, verbal, and nonverbal communication. Exegesis focuses primarily upon texts. Hermeneutic, as a singular noun, refers to a single particular method or strand of interpretation (see, in contrast, double hermeneutic). The understanding of any written text requires hermeneutics.[3]
Hermeneutics initially applied to the interpretation, or exegesis, of scripture. It emerged as a theory of human understanding beginning in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries through the work of Friedrich Schleiermacher and Wilhelm Dilthey.[3] Modern hermeneutics includes both verbal and nonverbal communication as well as semiotics, presuppositions, and preunderstandings.[4] Hermeneutic consistency refers to the analysis of texts to achieve a coherent explanation of them. Philosophical hermeneutics refers primarily to the theory of knowledge initiated by Martin Heidegger and developed by Hans-Georg Gadamer in his work Truth and Method. It sometimes refers to the theories of Paul Ricoeur.[5]

Romans 13
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

The highlighted parts are what we need to focus on. It says that rulers only bear their swords against wrongdoers and NOT against those who do right.

Unless Jesus was a wrongdoer and unless those Christians the Romans persecuted and killed were wrongdoers as well, the highlighted parts are proven to be 100% false.

"Rulers hold no terror for this who do right", if that truly is the case then those Christians who were persecuted for 300 years weren't doing what was right, they were wrongdoers. Does god believe spreading and believing in the truth is wrong? Because the rulers bore their swords against them.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


I do not think you can find any old testament (torah) connections in the Rothschild background..it is luciferian or satanists. i am not an expert there. yet they are pivotal in the founding of israel, and gathering jews there.. so your guess that it might be a plot to eliminate them is plausible. now, directly, consider zbig brzezinski, the 2009 cia report on israel will not exist in 20 years, kissinger in his cups saying 10 years for israel (search for cindy, NYC, and kissinger at a party..) zbig was interviewed by mika, his daughter, and paved the way for the abandonment of israel...

reply to post by the2ofusr1

. . . there are Jews all around the world and who keep a record of their family tree

Could be, but the ones who created and now live in what they call Israel are all from a specific place, Poland, other than some Jews who were already there.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

. . . also in Luke 4:6 in which Satan says, " I will give you all their AUTHORITY and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want." The logical response of Jesus would have been to dispute Satan if it were not true.

How would he have done that, exactly, if he did realize that it wasn't true?
The point was about worship, and not if Satan had legitimate authority or not.
Obviously Satan didn't, otherwise Jesus would have bowed down to him.
Hello, Satan is a liar, and the father of lies!
Why would you believe what he says?
Didn't you learn anything from Eve?
Once you start accepting what he says, then comes the fall.

Secondly, Satan is the god of the world(2 Cor. 4:4) . . .

It says "the god of this age".
There is no mention of Satan.
The passing away god is the misconception that people had about what God was all about, being replaced by the knowledge of the true God, that came to us through Jesus.

He is the Creator of all things, invisible and visible (Colossians 1:16). Logically, we must conclude that God has a hand in the creation of evil . . .

That was talking about Jesus.
Jesus is Lord, and that actually means something, and isn't just an empty title.
That was what the writer of Colossians was saying in a poetical sort of way, and was probably quoting a song that was in use in whatever church that he belonged to.

Romans 13 talks about submitting to the authorities as Law Enforcers, because that is what God has ordained them as.

Think about what is going on in the Ukraine right now, and then you can get an idea of the sort of stuff that was going on in Rome thanks to the rebellions going on in Palestine against the Romans, and the large number of Jews living in the capital of that Empire that was in the process of crushing the Jewish province.
Paul didn't want the Christian converts from Judaism joining in the riots and street fighting in Rome.

reply to post by jmdewey60


It's hard to say who went back to Israel from the dispersion .If we go by what has been claimed then there are many but not all .Not all are from Europe ...

reply to post by darkstar57


I haven't read any of what you mention ..got a linky :>) The bible in one sense does suggest in that the tribe of Dan is suspiciously not mentioned .I have read a few pieces mentioning that aspect but really don't find anything overwhelmingly convincing .hard to say for sure .peace