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America: Be Ashamed

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posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 01:19 AM
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I realize some people will never get it ...


... but our own troops?
This came to me in an e-mail a few minutes ago. That soldiers, wearing the uniform of the United States, would pose in front of a coffin, draped by the flag of their country ... is OUTRAGEOUS. This is one time I hope the MSM let a story die quietly. If the parents of the fallen see this, they will wonder if their son or daughter was shown disrespect after giving their last full measure of devotion.

I hope the military singles out each individual in this picture and subjects them to Courts Martial. The only picture where they deserve to 'strike a pose' again ... should be their mugshots.



+14 more 
posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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I kind of like the upbeat attitude they've got going on there. Nothing says a good send-off better than celebrating the dead with smiles & happiness. Even morticians have a sense of humor handling the dead (know one! friend of my mother's, a total riot talking about her work)

I personally hate somber funerals, the practice is archaic to me. Celebrate the dead's life, laugh & smile. Come to part ways sad, leave happier. Not sure if this group was just an escort, or knew the deceased, but either way, there's nothing I can see there that can identify the casket's occupant, and therefore, there's little reason to have a tizzy. For all we know, the casket's empty & it was a staged photo (tossing it out there to consider, I didn't look into it any)
edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)


Okay, I looked it up. Empty casket at a training facility.
abcnews.go.com...

No "insulted" dead person anywhere near it.
edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)


+7 more 
posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Snarl
 


OP, just what right do you have to tell me, an American citizen, or an entire country how they should feel ? Which in your opinion, is ashamed.

Do you understand that ordering another person to be ashamed is a covert act of judgement and control ?



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:06 AM
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I believe in South Africa, they believe in celebrating the former life of the deceased. I do not believe that practice is widely held in the US. If the deceased believed the same as those in South Africa, I see no problem with it. I know nothing if this was a staged photo or an empty casket or if it was something done in very poor taste as the op suggests. I can understand the dismay to many Americans because funerals and death are typically solemn occassions and something you show respect at here typically.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:07 AM
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hurdygurdy
reply to post by Snarl
 


OP, just what right do you have to tell me, an American citizen, or an entire country how they should feel ? Which in your opinion, is ashamed.

Do you understand that ordering another person to be ashamed is a covert act of judgement and control ?


he's just trolling for fun bro..

he's always like that .. LOVES to see other anger at his expense while sitting back and cracks a beer..


it's all good man ..



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:09 AM
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So says the person with a modified picture of the Statue of Liberty...

How is their statement any different than yours?



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by Snarl
 


While I think it is distasteful I do not see grounds for a court marshal I am not even sure if it is covered in the UCMJ. If they were in my command there would be some punishment. Something humiliating but it would be handled within the squad, and I guarantee they would think twice before posting pics like that on social media again. The truth is almost all soldiers I knew had some sort of goof photos as I worked with ordinance I have a few funny ones, but I wouldn't post them on social media.


Social media is kind of a new phenomenon that I never became part of in the military. I imagine there have been some new regulations added since I was in, but I am uncertain of that. Keep in mind you are trying to interpret a picture which we can't know the story. I am also sure that not all the soldiers in that pic were aware that it would wind up on social media.

It is a new world.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:13 AM
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Let me tell you something, that soldier didn't get to the tomb because he didn't care, because he wanted a skate job, he didn't get there because he was a robot. He got there because his unit gave him away thinking he best represented the post and probably beat out a lot of soldiers for it. He is the guard as far as I am concerned they should shut their sewers and respect what he is guarding that tomb is a symbol of freedom and it really isn't something to gawk and laugh about. If I were running the show as a Marine my composure for those that laugh at my brothers would be met by uncertain terms you would watch on Alex Jones you tube channel as proof of a police state. Let me ask you, Are you looking for stars for sensationalism? I ask because I think that soldier did his best as guard to preserve the honor of people you don't even know their names of. I bet you bitch to your coworkers when it snows this guy walks back and forth preserving something, what do you stand and march for? ATS stars and flags?



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:20 AM
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I saw a youtube video a while back (I tried to find it again for this thread and couldn't) where a group of soldiers dressed in drag to attend a fellow soldier's funeral. Why? Because they all served in the same unit, and they had promised each other that they would do it for any one of them that died. They saw humor in it and wanted it to be "not so somber" for everyone when they were laid to rest. While I am sure many might have found this offensive, it was a pact between them that bought them some small amount of joy and laughter while they were on the front lines.

Everyone grieves differently and I don't think I would want anyone throwing up "The Dueces" by my mother's casket.... someone else might find some great amount of humor and comfort in it knowing that those who had passed would be laughing somewhere in their afterlife.

Different strokes, as they say.

ETA - That The Tomb is a whole other issue. Those interrupting were extremely rude. Anyone that chooses to visit, should give the whole ceremony the respect that it's due. If you choose not to, that is fine as well.... but you should choose not to attend if you can't behave accordingly.

edit on 2/22/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:23 AM
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I'm not ashamed. Why should I be? according to the citizens of the United States it's OK to have an elected "official" who threw his military decorations on the White House lawn to protest the Vietnam War. (Nice job Kerry, you moron, what's the matter, couldn't find some dog doo laying around? it disgusts me that he was in MY NAVY!) but no matter. That's what freedom is supposed to be about. The tomb of the unknown soldier is a whole different "level" of respect for a soldier. my wife and i are both vets and have both been there, and it was IMPOSSIBLE for both of us not to shed a tear. We both understand, we aren't supposed to know who lies there in honor. it send s a message. and it deserves the UTMOST respect. To me, when I visited there, I didn't just remember the U.S. citizens that are resting there it made me think of all citizens for all countries that gave they're lives. it made me think of my dad and mom who lived through WWII. it made me think the best thing we can do is ensure that they CAN'T FIND ANYONE to lay to rest there ever again. Sadly, as a species we never seem to learn. No, I am not ashamed of those who stand over our honored dead with reverence, and respect. The people in front of that coffin will have to live with that image all they're days. and if they feel no remorse? I'm sorry, but that turns my stomach. Also since they serve our country, as i did, i believe they deserve a chance to redeem themselves. As a sailor, i made my own mistakes, and was allowed to redeem myself, at least i hope i did. these kids deserve nothing less. i pray they will make amends, because should they have the blessing of growing old, as some have not, they will have a hard time later in life. Also, I included a link to my dad's ship. the U.S.S. Saint Paul. She was a beauty. The "Fighting Saint". I miss him. Fair winds and following seas Dad !



www.history.navy.mil...



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by tencap77
 


I wish i could star you twice squid

Im one of your Marines and i know where you are coming from brother!



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:43 AM
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Nyiah
I kind of like the upbeat attitude they've got going on there. Nothing says a good send-off better than celebrating the dead with smiles & happiness. Even morticians have a sense of humor handling the dead (know one! friend of my mother's, a total riot talking about her work)

I personally hate somber funerals, the practice is archaic to me. Celebrate the dead's life, laugh & smile. Come to part ways sad, leave happier. Not sure if this group was just an escort, or knew the deceased, but either way, there's nothing I can see there that can identify the casket's occupant, and therefore, there's little reason to have a tizzy. For all we know, the casket's empty & it was a staged photo (tossing it out there to consider, I didn't look into it any)
edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)


Okay, I looked it up. Empty casket at a training facility.
abcnews.go.com...

No "insulted" dead person anywhere near it.
edit on 2/22/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



Just thought I'd let you know. these soldiers are supposed to be an "honor guard" detail. they will be the pall bearers at someones last rites. and there's a good chance someones mother and father and sister and brother etc will be present. Don't you think those people deserve the "Honor" part in honor guard? I understand your comments about levity at a funeral. my wife insists on a white coffin and a lot of led zepplin! but these are soldiers in uniform taking questionable photos with the national ensign. believe me, people in uniform know ALL ABOUT COFFINS. that just didn't help this misguided "selfie". anyway. the people in the photo should have some shame. and looking back i'm sure they will. kids make mistakes. most of the kids in this picture have never known a time when they're fellow citizens WERE NOT coming home in flag draped coffins. i am glad to see them put on a uniform and serve they're country. i would COMMEND them if they came forward and made amends. they SHOULD be given the opportunity to do so. As a country, as I am sure about the individuals themselves, we should all be given a chance to redeem ourselves. the people would appreciate and demand nothing less.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:50 AM
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Brotherman
reply to post by tencap77
 


I wish i could star you twice squid

Im one of your Marines and i know where you are coming from brother!



Gung Ho baby ! ! Right back at you! Jesus is the only Lance Corporal I ever knew that never F&8k#d Up! these kids deserve a chance to redeem themselves in our eyes. Let's see how it plays out. and thanks MARINES! you guys looked after my daughter on quite a few night patrols in A-stan when she filled in for some wounded docs. My wife, a hospital corpsman, and myself, a CTT are happy we have a CORP. We know as long as we do, we'll ALWAYS have a fightin chance ! ! ! ! ! !
Go devil dogs !!



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 03:25 AM
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get lt .col ,james bo grist aka rambo onto them he will sort the slackers out



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:09 AM
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There are greater things to be ashamed of.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:12 AM
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If you cant laugh at Death when your business is Death there must be something wrong with you...
Kids just putting the Fun in Funeral.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:26 AM
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and ? obviously youve not been in a line unit in a combat zone .. one tends to get a rather dark sense of humour .. so they posed in front of an empty coffin having a laugh big deal would rather they had a laugh than mope around all depressed .. death finds everyone eventually better to have a laugh and celebrate life .. bury the dead and charlie mike without looking back .. youd go apoplectic over pics some of the guys I knew with s.o.g in vietnam took and the dark humour in them.. hell I got wrote up for holding up a human skull doing a rendition of hamlet because some remf officer in nam didnt appreciate humour ..
As to the video .. poor taste the conduct of the individuals at the tomb .. but in america people have the right to free speach and expression .. oh wait that was the old america not amerika today where free speech and expression are viewed as a threat to society.

the dead could care less their dead .. let the living cope with death in whatever manner they choose.
edit on 22/2/14 by Expat888 because: drunken tengu causing havoc..



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 07:48 AM
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Thanks for stepping up while I was away tencap77.
reply to post by tencap77
 


Just thought I'd let you know. these soldiers are supposed to be an "honor guard" detail. they will be the pall bearers at someones last rites. and there's a good chance someones mother and father and sister and brother etc will be present. Don't you think those people deserve the "Honor" part in honor guard?

You've perfectly captured the problem with the photo in the OP. Personnel assigned to Funeral Detail know better. I never once participated in a military funeral where disrespect was publicly conveyed. Even during a wake, where shenanigans are not uncommon, invited members of a Funeral Detail stand apart.

Grimpachi is probably right as usual: "It is a new world." ... and I haven't changed with it. Shame on me.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 08:00 AM
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c'mon...there are just as many A..holes in the military, as there are in civilian life. I think it would be bad no matter who's funeral it was.
I wonder if there should be a year-long high school class on ethics, critical thinking skills and finance. our schools are sending out into adulthood a bunch of empathy-lacking morons.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Snarl
 


I don't agree about them posting the photo, BUT I can say for one thing I understand were they are coming from.

I have carried caskets draped with the flag, did the Honor guard and present the flag to many widows, after the 30th ceremony or so you are always walking around like your at a funeral 24/7, I can see that this was a stress relief for the Honor Guard during their practices, which you do for hours upon hours unless you are actually performing the ceremony.

Do you know how hard it is to walk up and Kneel in front of a grieving widow and say this "Mam on behalf of a grateful Nation and the President of the United States we are here today to present you with this flag for the service of your fallen loved one" this is just the beginning of the paragraph that you have to try and say holding yourself back from tearing up as well. Its especially hard to be professional when the widow don't want to except the flag. But you continue on.

Its easy to criticize others when you don't understand the demands on what they are doing. and using Patriotic Media to make this look worse than it really is. Like I said the Casket is not real probably made out of wood with weights in it, they were practicing, the one mistake they did make was to post the picture on the internet.



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