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Rightwing Republicans say boot UN out of US

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posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Well besides the fact that 'Move America forward' is a Republican sponsored Organization, I think chucking the United Nations out of the U.S. really wouldnt change much of anything, I see no real reasoning behind this other than spite. I know the U.N. are nothing but criminals and could just pack up and move anywhere. So what is the point, can someone can someone explain this to me?



Excerpts:
Rightwing Republicans say boot UN out of US

Los Angeles - A rightwing Republican group on Monday has launched a television campaign calling for the United Nations (UN) to be kicked out of the United States (US), alleging the world body is a "safe harbor" for terrorism.

California-based Move America Forward wants the world body's New York headquarters shut down and its officials expelled from the country because it failed to support the US-led war on Iraq.

The spot, which backs a "Get the UN out of the US" petition drive," claimed that "billions of dollars" intended for UN humanitarian aid was used to pay the families of "Palestinian terrorists" and to buy weapons for Iraq-based terrorists. More

Source: www.iol.co.za...



I did a search on this and found nothing




posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looks like your topic might be related to this one.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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And the rest of the world says kick the US out of the UN.... funny how that changers depending on what side you are coming from.


Just the way they think the UN is "in" the US explains everything really.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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Maybe the US should kick the UN off the planet. I'll donate $1 to build a new UN on the moon.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:28 AM
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What we need is less cooperation, less venues to explain ourselves to each other, less places to iron out differences.....basically more division in the world......if the spoilt brat nations can't get there way in everything.

As Corinthas said, the perspective is all in this.

The laughable notion of a 'go it alone' USA is at large yet again in the US and will, IMHO, ultimately prove just as dangerous to the USA's genuine interests in time, sadly.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
Just the way they think the UN is "in" the US explains everything really.


Are you saying that there are no UN officials in the US? Where is the UN headquarters? Think about things before you post, your statements wont sound quite so ignorant that way. Stupid statements are annoying.


Seeing as the UN was founded to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and the UN and US are not on the same page on the Iraq war, I would say the UN has failed, at least so far as the US and Iraq are concerned. This is not a matter of whether the war in Iraq was right or wrong, but rather that it is obvious that our strength is not united.

The UN has proven itself ineffective at best, but not because it failed to join with the US in Iraq. The UN calls the Iraq war "illegal." If it truly feels this way, should it not take action to defend Iraq militarily against the US? If it does not, it has failed its intended mission.


I see no reason for the US to pay so much money to support the UN and continue to host it, if we are going to also continue to provide the majority of the money and manpower to fight, win and rebuild in Iraq.


Again, not a mater of right or wrong in Iraq, but a mater of the UN and US going seperate ways and the UN failing to stand up against what it calls an "illegal war." The UN is all bark and no bite, unless you consider the stolen money biting the Iraqi people. These are not the kind of friends the US needs, we all see how well the UN protected Iraq when it thought an injustice had been done by the US, and how well it protected the Iraqi people when its members wanted to line their pockets. It is useless.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by cavscout]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:11 AM
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It's not a Repub vs. Dem thing (as the article's title may suggest), I think most Americans realize the UN....well....sucks....



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
It's not a Repub vs. Dem thing (as the article's title may suggest), I think most Americans realize the UN....well....sucks....


- That may be so TJW but I cannot believe we can really sort things out by walking away if we don't get just what we want......and let's be honest, this current wave of anti-UN (anti-whatever) is purely motivated by a section on the US political spectrum throwing a tantrum over not getting their way every time.

The number of 'faults' being claimed (for instance countries using their veto or abstention to block actions) don't seem to bother these people when those very things have been used by and worked for their country, right?

We have few enough mechanisms in the world for the contries of the world to have dialogue or meet with each other regularly.
It may have it failings and be less than perfect at times (but what human construct isn't?) but it also has it's successes.
How on earth could it possibly be 'better' and improve the situation to have one less place for the world to come together (particularly the actual 'UN')!?

[edit on 23-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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Where is the UN headquarters?

iirc the UN HQ is not US Territory. Just like an embassy.



should it not take action to defend Iraq militarily against the US?

(International) Law and Moral sometimes collide.
Using an Example, the War on iraq was something like this:
I break into a suspected murderers home and kill him. For the people, I brought justice to the world and made the neighbourhood more secure. For the law, I broke into a mans house and killed him. Murderer or not, he is still protected by the law.
Iraq looks to international law like this: Country A invades country B, occupies it and installs it's own government.
Wheter or not this was justified or right does not matter. It can be a bit frustrating but that's the way it works.

The UN in it's current shape is very much a cold war child. It needs reforms, a bigger security council and less buerocracy. "Throwing it out" and abolishing it, will lead to nothing. Remember the League of Nations?



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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The UN in it's current shape is very much a cold war child. It needs reforms, a bigger security council and less buerocracy. "Throwing it out" and abolishing it, will lead to nothing.


Ohhhh yeah....your right, the UN is in desparate need of reforming, and maybe a new home, also...
More and more, stories, like the one below, are steadily and repeatedly coming out concerning the UN.
UN DR Congo sex abuses 'on film'


seekerof



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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It makes me laugh when people say the UN is ineffective and corrupt when it largely contributes - through programs like UNICEF and UNESCO - to giving children in Third world countries a better chance at having a healthier childhood, and promoting education for all - including in countries where girls usually don't access to schools.

Yes, the UN is in need of reform. But ditching it because it doesn't walk in step with the United States is short-sighted and egotistical.

Send it to Canada. We'll build new headquarters in Toronto.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Here is a list of the resolutions regarding Iraq that the U.N failed to enforce.

UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990

Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."

Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991

Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.

Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991

Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.

Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."

Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.

Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.

Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.

Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.

Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.

Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991

"Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."

Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.

Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance.

UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991

"Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.

"Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.

Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.

Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.

Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.

Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

"Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.

Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.

Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq.

UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

"Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

"Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.

Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."

UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.

Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).

Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.

Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.

Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.

Additional UN Security Council Statements

In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The list of statements includes:

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1991

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 5, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 19, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 28, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 6, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 11, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 12, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, April 10, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 17, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, July 6, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, September 2, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 24, 1992

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 8, 1993

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 11, 1993

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 18, 1993

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1993

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1993

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 8, 1994

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 19, 1996

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 14, 1996

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, August 23, 1996

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 30, 1996

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 13, 1997

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 29, 1997

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 13, 1997

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 3, 1997

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 22, 1997

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 14, 1998



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 05:02 PM
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Still at any rate I still see no real use in chucking the United Nations out of America other than spite. That old adage comes to mind about keep your enemies close, makes it easier to spy on




United Nations Security Council Resolutions Currently Being Violated by Countries Other than Iraq By Stephen Zunes February 28, 2003

In its effort to justify its planned invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration has emphasized the importance of enforcing UN Security Council resolutions. However, in addition to the dozen or so resolutions currently being violated by Iraq, a conservative estimate reveals that there are an additional 88 Security Council resolutions about countries other than Iraq that are also currently being violated. This raises serious questions regarding the Bush administration's insistence that it is motivated by a duty to preserve the credibility of the United Nations, particularly since the vast majority of the governments violating UN Security Council resolutions are close allies of the United States. Stephen Zunes zunes@usfca.edu, University of San Francisco professor and Middle East Editor for Foreign Policy in Focus ( online at www.fpif.org ),compiled the following partial list of UN resolutions that are currently being violated by countries other than Iraq.
The cases are listed in order of resolution number, followed by the year in which the resolution was passed, the country or countries in violation, and a brief description of the resolution Israel and Turkey



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Otts

Send it to Canada. We'll build new headquarters in Toronto.


Start a letter writing campaign in Canada to have it moved. I don't think you would get any resistance, at all.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:25 PM
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Well you all know how I feel on this one and we should ahve done this 20 years ago.

Move it to?



Paris



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:46 PM
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We have few enough mechanisms in the world for the contries of the world to have dialogue or meet with each other regularly.
It may have it failings and be less than perfect at times (but what human construct isn't?) but it also has it's successes.
How on earth could it possibly be 'better' and improve the situation to have one less place for the world to come together (particularly the actual 'UN')!?

[edit on 23-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]


I have to agree with Sminky here on this...the UN needs to be better improved, but the building blocks have been laid. Unfortunately, the UN does not have enough authority to enforce its decisions and decrees. The Security Council needs to have more bite. But, to move the UN out of the US, or anywhere will not change it. I think it's ludicrous to be so small-minded that removing the UN will make all the problems go away. But, then again, I think vegetarians are wrong. So, there's always that.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 12:08 AM
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I have heard this for the last twenty years or so. The UN was a good idea that just never really got the commitment it needed from the member countries to work effectively. While they do a lot of charity work, which is great, the problem is they have no way of reasonably enforcing their decisions with force. Ultimatley though, the major problem in the UN today is that the members really aren't close to being united in their beliefs.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by skychief
the major problem in the UN today is that the members really aren't close to being united in their beliefs.


Perhaps we should change the name to the N.S.U.N "Not So United Nations"
Sad but True

I think moving the U.N wont solve anything it needs a rebuild from the ground up if its ever going to be anything more then the Toothless Tiger that it is today.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 01:48 AM
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@ cavscout
What I was saying is this: thinking the UN is "in" the US (apart from physically -that's what the "s were for-) is the kind of megalomania we have come to expect from that side of the Atlantic.

Yes the UN biulding is in the US... but the US as a country is a member of the UN and not the other way round.

I know Americans want the Senate or whatever to be the Worlds governing body but sadly that role was given to the UN.

So when Americans want to kick the UN out of America I say: Fine! Just lets kick the US out of the UN first!



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 02:08 AM
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The Un is IMHO obsolete, neffective, and a waste of time and money.
Those who disagree wth the US suspending ties with the UN I understand yor point. The world does need a foum where nations can meet t ron out differences, but the UN has failed.
Rather than acceptng the opportunity cost of staying with the Un believe the US should withdraw from the UN, and establish a new organisation. Learn from the mistakes of the UN and use the lessons learned to build a new organisation.
Iraq
Darfour
Rwanda
3 good reasons to withdraw from the UN




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