Slain beauty queen mourned in Venezuela

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posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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VALENCIA, Venezuela (AP) — A university student beauty queen was mourned Friday in the provincial Venezuelan city where she was slain this week during a political protest, a victim of what government opponents say is indiscriminate violence used by President Nicolas Maduro and his supporters to stifle dissent across the country.
...
"She wanted to support her country and, well, look what it cost her for going out with a flag and a whistle. Killed by government mercenaries," said Jose Gil, an uncle of Carmona.

Slain beauty queen mourned in Venezuela

She wasn't just a beauty queen, she was also a human being. This is yet another example of what is happening in the Socialist dictatorship that is Venezuela, and yet it is also more proof of what Socialism and communism really leads to.

There is more in the article that is very relevant.


The violence drew condemnation Friday from U.S. based watchdog group Human Rights Watch, which said "Venezuelan security forces have used excessive and unlawful force against protesters on multiple occasions since February 12, 2014, including beating detainees and shooting at crowds of unarmed people."

The report also said "the government has censored the news media, blocking transmission of a TV channel and threatening to prosecute news outlets for their coverage of the violence."
...


Excerpted from original article.
edit on 21-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add info and correct errors.




posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I am not sure why you call it a socialist dictatorship I guess the bar for that has been lowered.



establish independence until 1821 (as a department of the federal republic of Gran Colombia, gaining full independence in 1830). During the 19th century Venezuela suffered political turmoil and dictatorship, and it was dominated by regional caudillos (military strongmen) well into the 20th century. The country has had democratic governments since 1958; before that, like most countries of Latin America, it suffered some coups and military dictatorships. Economic shocks in the 1980s and 1990s led to a political crisis causing hundreds of deaths in the Caracazo riots of 1989, two attempted coups in 1992, and the impeachment of President Carlos Andrés Pérez for embezzlement of public funds in 1993. A collapse in confidence in the existing parties saw the 1998 election of former career officer Hugo Chávez and the launch of the Bolivarian Revolution, beginning with a 1999 Constituent Assembly to write a new Constitution of Venezuela.
Venezuela is a federal presidential republic consisting of 23 states,link


Her death is certainly sad, and the country is definitely unstable IMO mostly because they devalued their currency. It is an interesting study though and in ways parable to the Bonus Army of 1932 when protestors were shot and killed in the US in fact there is a thread about it on here posted yesterday. Financial crisis always seems to lead to such things.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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Grimpachi
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I am not sure why you call it a socialist dictatorship I guess the bar for that has been lowered.



establish independence until 1821 (as a department of the federal republic of Gran Colombia, gaining full independence in 1830). During the 19th century Venezuela suffered political turmoil and dictatorship, and it was dominated by regional caudillos (military strongmen) well into the 20th century. The country has had democratic governments since 1958; before that, like most countries of Latin America, it suffered some coups and military dictatorships. Economic shocks in the 1980s and 1990s led to a political crisis causing hundreds of deaths in the Caracazo riots of 1989, two attempted coups in 1992, and the impeachment of President Carlos Andrés Pérez for embezzlement of public funds in 1993. A collapse in confidence in the existing parties saw the 1998 election of former career officer Hugo Chávez and the launch of the Bolivarian Revolution, beginning with a 1999 Constituent Assembly to write a new Constitution of Venezuela.
Venezuela is a federal presidential republic consisting of 23 states,link


Her death is certainly sad, and the country is definitely unstable IMO mostly because they devalued their currency. It is an interesting study though and in ways parable to the Bonus Army of 1932 when protestors were shot and killed in the US in fact there is a thread about it on here posted yesterday. Financial crisis always seems to lead to such things.


Why do I call it Socialist? Because that's what it is. Hugo Chavez started forcing socialist reforms on the country and it's people, and the same thing is doing the present president of Venezuela who is also a Socialist...

Heck, socialists/fascists and communists in this website, among some other members have been cheering in favor of the "socialist reforms in Venezuela since it all started"...

In case you haven't noticed ALL socialist, and communist countries have, and have had "economic crisis"... Yes, it is true that other forms of government also can and have had economic crisis, but in the case of socialism and communism it has ALWAYS happened, and will always happen. Not to mention the millions of people murdered, and dragged into Gulags and concentration camps under socialism, and the aggressive oppression which includes fascism and communism.

BTW, those protesters who were shot and killed in the U.S. were murdered under a Democratic President, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and the protest occurred because of the Depression caused by the Federal Reserve Bank Act, not to mention the IRS, implemented by again Democrats.

edit on 21-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I wasn't aware that millions of people were murdered, and dragged into Gulags and concentration camps in Venezuela in fact 3 years ago when I traveled through Venezuela no one mentioned such nor did I hear them call their country communist nor socialist.

Well you showed me. I guess.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 



In case you haven't noticed ALL socialist, and communist countries have, and have had "economic crisis"... Yes, it is true that other forms of government also can and have had economic crisis, but in the case of socialism and communism it has ALWAYS happened, and will always happen. Not to mention the millions of people murdered, and dragged into Gulags and concentration camps under socialism, which includes fascism and communism.


lol, socialism includes fascism now? Why do they even have the word fascism then…


Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium


List of most socialist countries. *China omitted.

So yeah, Im having trouble finding all the gulags in Canada, New Zealand, and well all of them on the list.


And it's weird because Canada's economic stability was rated higher than the US (Including banks) during the last econ crisis. So either you have no idea what you are talking about or perhaps you've been drinking too much.




posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I did a little reading on their economy and one thing stuck out. They recently raised gas prices which historically has led to instability there. When I traveled through even paying the GRINGO price it was only 20 cent a gallon it was actually much lower than that, but I didn't care, and I still tipped. I always wondered how it could be so cheap, and now I see it wasn't sustainable.

Venezuela has the world’s cheapest gasoline, about 6 cents a gallon

Also

Venezuela orders three American Embassy officials to leave country, saying they have been recruiting students to take part in violent antigovernment protests

Now we wouldn't do that would we?



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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Grimpachi

I wasn't aware that millions of people were murdered, and dragged into Gulags and concentration camps in Venezuela in fact 3 years ago when I traveled through Venezuela no one mentioned such nor did I hear them call their country communist nor socialist.

Well you showed me. I guess.


I was talking about all socialist/fascist and communist countries combined...

And in case you didn't know th has been happening since Hugo Chavez...


Venezuela’s Chavez Denies Protesters Were Tortured

CARACAS – President Hugo Chavez denied on Friday that students mounting anti-government protests this week in Caracas and other Venezuelan cities have been subject to torture orbrutal repression.

Demonstrators have been confronted by Venezuela’s militarized police, the Guardia Nacional, as well as by Chavez supporters, two of whom were fatally shot Monday in the western city of Merida.

Eight student protesters detained Wednesday in Barquisimeto filed a formal legal complaint alleging that they endured physical and psychological mistreatment while in custody at a Guardia Nacional barracks.
...


www.laht.com...

Heck, there is ample evidence of the socialist reforms that socialist/communist Chavez forced on the Venezuelan people...


Venezuela -- Chavez Moves to Silence Opposition Media
President Chavez's government is moving forcefully to silence critics by introducing a Media
Crimes bill that would give it sweeping authority to jail journalists, media executives, and
bloggers who report on anything that the government considers to be harmful to state interests.
It is simultaneously moving to shut down more than 200 radio stations, impose broadcasting
requirements on RCTV International, and position itself to take over opposition news station
Globovision.
Tightening control over opposition outlets could make it more difficult for
Chavez to blame his favored scapegoat of the media for the country's problems, however.
Introduced at the National Assembly by Prosecutor General Luisa Ortega, the Media Crimes
bill significantly expands the government's ability to punish media critics for any action or
omission that it finds objectionable.

...

www.fas.org...

The following are a couple of videos, of the many, of the march of students in favor for RCTV news on May 28th, 2007.




Another video of Venezuelan students chanting "Yes we can", but to defend the rights of not only the Venezuelan students, but all Venezuelans. You can see some of the students have the word "LIBERTAD"(which means LIBERTY or FREEDOM)...

This was another protest by students of the tyranny that Chavez was implementing in the country. This protest occurred on June 2007.

BTW, yes, the students are speaking and protesting in Spanish, in case you didn't know that either...




BTW, member platosallegory posted the following in 2009.


CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday that he and Cuban ally Fidel Castro risk being more conservative than U.S. President Barack Obama as Washington prepares to take control of General Motors Corp.

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right," Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.
...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The above are not isolated cases. If you haven't been following what has been happening in Venezuela, perhaps you should learn instead of claiming something you don't know about.

BTW, twisting my comments does not work.

edit on 21-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add info.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


It was never so much about socialism is it about how Chavez ran his country. He didn't like selling out which isn't such a bad thing. Plenty of others have tried to fight the IMF, World Bank and the US backed corporations and it usually ends badly. When these powers reassert their controls it gets even worse.

@ the OP, I really don't care if you want to call something socialism, capitalism, or xyzism.

The bottom line is richer nations plunder poorer nations reserves and try to do it at lowest cost possible. They support dictatorships, military juntas… whatever is a means to their end.

Again, couldn't care less. It's the way the world works.

I just get irritated when people fail to see the whole picture.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 



The above are not isolated cases. If you haven't been following what has been happening in Venezuela, perhaps you should learn instead of claiming something you don't know about.

BTW, twisting my comments does not work.


You drink a lot of koolaid.


Chavez remains a controversial figure in the West, where he has been attacked as a demagogue, dictator, and tyrant ever since he was first elected as President of Venezuela in 1999. A coup, orchestrated by the oligarchs who used to run the country in conjunction with a section of the military leadership, and which enjoyed the tacit support of the Bush administration, attempted to remove him from power in 2002.


It failed when the poor of the the slums and barrios of Caracas descended on the presidential palace in their tens of thousands and demanded the return of their president. Since then Chavez has been re-elected twice, making him among the most democratically elected leaders of any in the entire world.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Your doing some mental gymnastics I see. Here is the rest of the story from your link I am not sure you read it all.



Eight student protesters detained Wednesday in Barquisimeto filed a formal legal complaint alleging that they endured physical and psychological mistreatment while in custody at a Guardia Nacional barracks.

The students’ attorney, Guillermo Palacios, said the eight detainees were threatened that they would be jailed alongside common criminals if they refused to sign statements attesting to the good treatment they received from the Guardia Nacional.

The wave of protests was spurred by the Chavez government’s decision to temporarily suspend Radio Caracas Television Internacional from the country’s cable television system for alleged regulatory infractions.

During a nationally broadcast speech on Friday, the leftist president said many of the accusations about “brutal repression” of demonstrations was based on photographs of Guardia Nacional officers holding claw-like implements.

Those tools, Chavez said, are used to drag piles of burning tires from the streets, “not to beat anyone.”

“But then comes all the slander in the press of the rich, the television of the rich, the radio, and that’s repeated in the world,” the president said. “Many people believe that it’s true, that we use hooks to stab people in the back.”

In earlier comments, he dismissed the student protesters as “puppets” of a “fascist right that wants deaths.”

The two government supporters killed in Merida were “machine-gunned from a bus,” Chavez said Thursday, adding that one of two soldiers shot in the same city was in critical condition.

The Miami-based Venezuela Awareness Foundation said Friday that authorities in the Andean nation have responded to the student protests in a “disproportionate manner.” EFE


AS I have been there I know the well to do didn't really care for him he didn't let them control the media and country and resources. BTW I wasn't able to find the date of your article it just has todays date which can't be the day that article was written(maybe I missed it).

As for your second link I am not sure what your point is. He made a joke, and that is supposed to be some big news?

If your entire point is to say Venezuela is a communist/xyzism/socialist/whatever I think you will be hard pressed to find people that actually know about those xyzisms or that country to agree with you.Of course there are people that say that about the US as well, now those people will agree with you. Well it is a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the facts are what they are.

edit to add since you did



BTW, yes, the students are speaking and protesting in Spanish, in case you didn't know that either...


You don't say. My goodness I would have never know I am so glad you told me I always wondered what language that was that I learned while traveling all over Central and South America. When I go back to visit my friends that should come in handy.


Please tell me more about the places I have been.

BTW Portuguese and Italian is fairly common there as well.
edit on 21-2-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 10:01 PM
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boncho

You drink a lot of koolaid.


WOW, really?... Chavez forcefully introduced laws which included his "18 months of rule by emergency decree" , even changing the Constitution to implement pro-socialist/communist legislation. He forcefully closed down 200 radio stations, and news stations that were critical of him and his regime. He and his chavistas used every tactic to silence the millions of opponents of Chavez and his regime. Because of his measures food and other products not only increased in price, but became scarce in stores and Venezuelans began to fight at supermarkets over the last food items and other products. Not only that, but after blaming the capitalists for the lack of food it was actually found by one of his own people that tons, upon tons, of food products were rotting away in government-run storage, and much more and I am the one drinking koolaid?...


El universal,

CARACAS, Friday June 25, 2010 | Update

Economy
Rotten food scandal continues to hit Venezuelan government


The Catholic Church demanded Venezuelan authorities to punish people responsible for the loss of thousand tons of foodstuffs (File photo: Vicente Correale)
Related Content
Situation of the food sector regarded as negative EL UNIVERSAL
Friday June 25, 2010 12:02 PM


June 21

Opposition leader: Venezuelan govn't has a strict control over food items
Julio Borges, a candidate to the National Assembly for the state of Miranda, insisted on June 21 that the Venezuelan government must take responsibility for the discovery of containers with rotten food. The government should not try to transfer the responsibility to the private sector, the opposition leader added.

Borges said in an interview with Venezuelan radio station Unión Radio that the government is responsible for the case of rotten food because it created the Integral System of Agrifood Control (SICA), a supervision system that monitors all the stages of food imports and production in Venezuela.

Venezuelan authorities aware of spoiled food cases since 2008
Since 2008, Venezuelan authorities were aware of complaints about spoiled food in government-run food distribution network Mercados de Alimentos (Mercal), but the information was disclosed only in June 2010. In fact, in 2008 local authorities discarded 471.22 kilos of spoiled food in Los Mangos, a low-income neighborhood in Caracas, as they were unfit for human consumption.

According to a report prepared by the Control Quality Management, Mercal in Los Mangos neighborhood, the fact was recorded in a document dated June 30, 2008. The report was forwarded to then coordinator of food distribution network Mercal in Caracas Metropolitan District.

According to the document, the merchandise was spoiled due to damaged packaging and bacteriological contamination.


Catholic Church views loss of foodstuffs alarming
The president of the Venezuelan Bishops' Association (CEV) Ubaldo Santana labeled on June 21 as "alarming and worrisome" the loss of tons of imported food stored in several ports throughout the nation.

"While in our houses, we struggle to tighten our budgets and someone else cannot afford buying food and should resort to those popular networks, huge amounts of food are lost and nobody is held accountable," Santana lamented.

The food was found two weeks ago stored in Puerto Cabello, a major port located on the central coast. The expired food, estimated at more than 70,000 tons, is part of the imports made by Pdval, a food retail chain ascribed to state-run oil holding Petróleos de Venezuela (Pdvsa), DPA quoted.

June 22

Bishops urge government to conduct "diligent" investigation into spoiled food case
The leaders of the Venezuelan Catholic Church urged on June 22 top government officials to conduct a "thorough and diligent" investigation into the discovery of rotten food and expired medicines in several states.

In a statement, the presidency of the Venezuelan Bishops' Association (CEV) asked Venezuelan authorities to act in a strong and transparent way when processing complaints and conducting investigations. The CEV also urged the government to prevent recurrence of such facts.

The bishops said that the issue of spoiled food and expired medicines and medical supplies underlines the "moral deterioration of the government agencies" related to the distribution of goods.

Spanish newspaper El País reports on spoiled food in Venezuela
Under the headline"Something is rotten in Venezuela, " Spanish newspaper El País published an article about the case of thousand tons of spoiled food that were to be sold in the network of socialist markets created by the Venezuelan government

The case of rotten food found in warehouses of state-run food retail network Pdval has made the headlines in Spain. "Something is rotten in Venezuela" is the title of a special article Spanish newspaper El País published on the issue, including statements from both people who have endured the smell of rotting foodstuffs and government spokespersons.

"It stank like 100 dead dogs," Dayana Reyes told El País, referring to the stench coming from Puerto Cabello seaport due to several thousand tons of rotten meat.
In April 2009, she was told that the smell came from 50 food containers belonging to food distribution network Productora y Distribuidora Venezolana de Alimentos (Pdval), a subsidiary of state-run oil company Petróleos de Venezuela (Pdvsa). But the issue came to light and became a scandal in Venezuela only a few weeks ago, when hundreds of containers full of rotten food began to appear.

...

www.eluniversal.com...

Yet, people like me, including millions of Venezuelans, are the ones "drinking the koolaid".


]
edit on 21-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Right, so every radio station and tv station was closed down not because they were critical of Chavez but "according to you" because the rich didn't care about what happens in Venezuela?...

I guess you are one of those who would also claim the millions of Venezuelans who have protested against Chavez "must be CIA imperialist agents"...

Please, try to make some sense, and btw, if you have travelled there so much as you claim I guess you must be one of the rich people... but in your case a rich pro-socialist/communist who really doesn't care about Venezuela...



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 10:20 PM
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if you have travelled there so much as you claim I guess you must be one of the rich people.


In their minds yes I am rich. In reality it costs $180 roughly to fly from Florida to Costa Rica one way and food is cheap considering as well as public transportation all through Central and South America the biggest cost and pain is carrying board bags all over the place which is why I left several in different countries with people I became friends with down there over the years. Now when I go I usually bring items they ask me to get and bring them.


How can 50 million people face hunger in a country that wastes billions of pounds of food?

While millions of Americans worry about how they will feed their children, the amount of safe, edible food wasted in the United States soars. According to figures provided by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and the World Economic Forum, roughly 70 billion pounds of edible food is lost in the United States each year. This loss occurs at every stage of the food creation and distribution process from farmers, to manufacturers and retailers, to restaurants and cafeterias. Much of this waste is due to the perishable nature of fresh produce, meats, breads and dairy products. Feeding America has the logistical expertise and efficiency to get perishable, healthy food to food-insecure households before it spoils.

There is enough food to feed every man, woman and child in America. Hunger in America is not about supply, it is about redirecting the excess food that is lost each year to those who need it most. Furthermore, as traditional food sources such as federal commodities and donations from manufacturers shrink, it is imperative that we find new ways to salvage food that would otherwise be wasted. That is why Feeding America is investing in new, innovative programs that will allow us to rescue billions of pounds of food. We will ensure the carrots left unharvested, the apple still on the tree and the carton of milk sitting in a warehouse refrigerator become the staples of a family’s dinner or a child’s lunch.link


Oh wait that is the US.


BTW do actually think we have an uncontrolled free media? If so your corporate masters have finished their programing.
edit on 21-2-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


So, you are agreeing with me that the U.S. is in fact turning socialist/fascist, or even communist right?... Because you seem to be claiming that the forceful rationing, and other inhumane forceful laws and tactics implemented by the socialist Chavez and his regime, LIKE IN MY COUNTRY CUBA, is slowly but surely happening in the U.S.... Ok, I guess we can agree on something...

edit on 21-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


WOW your in CUBA? Internet pricing there is outrageous. Are you rich?


FYI NO I am not agreeing with you.
edit on 21-2-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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Grimpachi

WOW your in CUBA? Internet pricing there is outrageous. Are you rich?


I was born and experienced socialism/communism in Cuba. I never wrote that I am still living there, but I have family in Cuba who would love to trade sits with you, except for your agreement with socialism/communism
...



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Well then I misunderstood because you said YOUR country is Cuba. So I am just wondering are you a citizen of America now?

If not I can understand how you can claim otherwise. I had an SSgt who was originally an illegal immigrant from Mexico but when he became a citizen he never called Mexico his country again. I can understand because he had to work pretty hard for his citizenship it seemed like it was a matter of pride. If I remember correctly he did two tours before he was able to get his citizenship. He also taught me spanish.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 



WOW, really?... Chavez forcefully introduced laws which included his "18 months of rule by emergency decree" , even changing the Constitution to implement pro-socialist/communist legislation. He forcefully closed down 200 radio stations, and news stations that were critical of him and his regime.


The US was founded by giving the middle finger to King George and subsequent war, and finally declaration of independence and the constitution. What's the point of your point?

Besides, did you ask what it was like before?


Before Chavez was elected in 1998, Venezuela was in a very dark, difficult period with a dangerously eroded democracy. During the early 1990s, poverty swelled at around 80%, the economy was in a sinkhole, the nation’s vast middle class was disappearing with millions falling into economic dispair, constitutional rights were suspended, a national curfew was imposed and corruption was rampant.




reply to post by ElectricUniverse
He and his chavistas used every tactic to silence the millions of opponents of Chavez and his regime. Because of his measures food and other products not only increased in price, but became scarce in stores and Venezuelans began to fight at supermarkets over the last food items and other products.


The US tried to overthrow him and the government. They silenced Mubarek, Gaddafi, Hussein, and countless others. They caused uprisings in many countries which was cause civil wars or encourage bigger hammers to strike down on regular people.

The US spies on its citizens, pushes its own laws or entire disregards them. As well as creates laws that favour a select few. Pretty much every country does this in some form or the other, which is why bias doesn't make sense.

Remember you are arguing all of Venezualas woes are based on them being socialist. Actually, it's more like because they have oil, and their geographic location. Notice how many countries have problems whenever they are rich in oil. Canada has done okay, but then again they export 99% of their oil production to the US.

The point I'm making is that the woes are not based on the political system but the political allegiances. There is direct outside pressure to force Venezuala to be a pro-US interest nation. Just as there has been countless others. The US has been operation in SA for a long, long time now. Most of it is documented pretty well.

I'm not even saying I have moral objections, or I think it's wrong, or stupid, or anything. Many of the policies are very good strategy. But I can't look at anything without considering the whole picture, because it just means you are accepting stupid reasoning to everything.


reply to post by ElectricUniverse
Not only that, but after blaming the capitalists for the lack of food it was actually found by one of his own people that tons, upon tons, of food products were rotting away in government-run storage, and much more and I am the one drinking koolaid?...


Venezuala is pretty open to manipulation since they import so much food.


Venezuela imports about two-thirds of its food needs. In 2002, U.S. firms exported $347 million worth of agricultural products, including wheat, corn, soybeans, soybean meal, cotton, animal fats, vegetable oils, and other items to make Venezuela one of the top two U.S. markets in South America. The United States supplies more than one-third of Venezuela's food imports. Recent government policies have led to problems with food shortages.



The tactics are the same that the un-democratic opposition has tried for 15 years ever since the first election of President Hugo Chávez. Such tactics have been used in the so-called Rainbow Revolutions in Eastern Europe, Libya, in Syria, in Egypt and now in Ukraine. The object is to give a semblance of chaos, to provoke the forces of public order, to discredit the government through the compliant international media, to foster civil unrest, even civil war (as it successfully happened in Syria), and ultimately to promote conditions for international intervention and even occupation.



The attack on Venezuela, aimed to create popular discontent has had the following features:

Monetary warfare. This started with run on the currency, the manipulation of the black market dollar, obtaining dollars at preferential price from the government under false reasons. Maduro did not hesitate: he regulated prices and changed the monetary exchange rules and 70% approved of his response.[ii]

False scarcity: A double blow of outrageous overpricing of goods plus artificial food scarcity started just as people were beginning their Christmas shopping. Wealthy merchants proceeded to hoard essential goods: corn flour, sugar, salt, cooking oil, toilet paper, etc. placing them in hidden warehouses or spirited off to Colombia through a well-planned smuggling operation. The military discovered an illegal bridge built for motorcycles that carried the smuggled goods. Thousands of bags of foodstuffs were discovered simply left rotting on Colombian byways: this was not smuggling for economic reasons, but for political reasons. The Colombian government cooperated with the Venezuelan government to stop this smuggling.


The picture seems to suggest there is a lot of behind the scenes manipulation in Ven to achieve certain objectives. I am not saying Chavez was perfect, nor was his policies worth lauding (besides taking stands on selling out certain aspects of his country), what I am saying is the story is much more involved than simply saying, "Gee look, see it's socialism and these guys running the country, it's all their fault, they're bad, bad, bad…"

www.counterpunch.org...


Lopez attended the Kennedy School of Government and was close with members of the Bush Administration. In Venezuela Lopez was sanctioned for influence peddling and embezzlement of funds partly for using money from Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA. Lopez was also sanctioned for illegal fund transfers when he was Mayor of Chacao. He and his associates have additionally been caught taking money from the US National Endowment for Democracy, an organization created as an alternative to funding from the CIA to pursue US interests abroad.


news.firedoglake.com...

The inflation crisis manifested after the Bush administration attempted its failed coup. This suggests to me there was an alternative place drawn up, since objectives like this don't disappear overnight.

If you don't succeed…


When Chavez was reelected in 2006 with an even larger margen of victory, nearly 64% of the vote, the US shifted its support from the traditional opposition political parties and NGOs in order to create new ones with youthful, fresh faces. Over one third of US funding, nearly $15 million annually by 2007, was directed towards youth and student groups, including training in the use of social networks to mobilize political activism. Student leaders were sent to the US for workshops and conferences on Internet activism and media networking. They were formed in tactics to promote regime change via street riots and strategic use of media to portray the government as repressive.


www.counterpunch.org...

In any case, your assertion that "Socialism causes XYZ" is false. In fact one could argue capitalism causes these things, since a capitalist meddling country causes a lot of the woes.

I don't think either is a well meaning statement. It makes us dumb ourselves down.

The US and Russia have been fighting war non-stop since the cold war (did it even end?)

Russia fights US in…

Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
Guatemala
Afghanistan
Nicaragua
Iran-Iraq

Syria
Ukraine

etc, etc, etc.

Now, a proxy war can be arms and violence or it can be a trade war as well. Most of the objectives all deal with trade though. So and so is supplying this country, I want them to supply our country. How do we accomplish it?

That is the root cause.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Don't try to twist around everything I write while making strawmen arguments based on your taking out of context my comments, because that's what you are doing.

I am an American citizen, and will always love this country for what it once was, and will try my best not to allow people like yourself to transform this country into "another try at socialism/fascism or communism." But, at the same time I also will never forget that I was born in, and experienced the life of a regular Cuban in what is a socialist/communist, in fact a Marxist-Leninist country, because that's what the castro brothers are.

If I wasn't born and experienced socialism/communism in Cuba it is probable that I could have become a rich brainwashed pro-socialist/communist like yourself who loves to back socialist/fascist, or even communist countries because they redistribute wealth first based on political belief, and then after all the euphoria of the poor, and the middle and rich class of the left ends, they understand their mistake in believing the lies from leftist rulers because the poor stop receiving money, and as much help as they were receiving at first from ALL socialist/fascist, and even communist regimes and become as poor as the people the poor (those in the left in general) were deriding for having businesses, and/or just for leaning to the political right...

Chavez has been bragging quite a bit about the fact that castro was not only his friend but a mentor, and that he sought to make Venezuela turn into another Cuba, or something similar.

What you are doing is called being a hypocrite. By backing the leftist regime in Venezuela you want in fact for the leftist/socialist regime of Chavez to take away the rights, and the businesses of people based on political grounds, meanwhile you brag about "travelling all over central and south America" which makes you a rich pro-socialist/fascist, or even pro-communist, if in fact you are not socialist/fascist, or communist...

Here is the link to a thread of a Venezuelan member who states part of what is happening in Venezuela, and not the lies believed by those who either haven't experienced what people who want real freedom in Venezuela have been going through.

More Censorship in Venezuela ,Mass shootings of protesters in Caracas (Please read and support )

edit on 22-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:54 PM
link   

boncho

lol, socialism includes fascism now? Why do they even have the word fascism then…


Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium


List of most socialist countries. *China omitted.

So yeah, Im having trouble finding all the gulags in Canada, New Zealand, and well all of them on the list.


And it's weird because Canada's economic stability was rated higher than the US (Including banks) during the last econ crisis. So either you have no idea what you are talking about or perhaps you've been drinking too much.



Hitler implemented socialist legislation, and regulations, he started a youth movement and used it against their parents, he was a socialist but with some small differences which is why his, and Mussolini socialist form of government are called fascism... Just like ALL communists are socialists, because for communism to exist there must be first socialism... Fascism is a form of socialism.

Heck...


"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Heck the communist government of China calls itself "The People's Republic of China..."

The North Korean government calls itself "The Democratic People's Republic of Korea..." While these, and others are really socialist/communist dictatorships.

BTW, it is obvious you don't know squat about socialism, because even in socialist websites you will find that for socialism to really exist in a country there must be, among many things, "the abolition of private property" .

But, like always socialists try to find a way to twist things around, and give new meanings to the same old BS that is socialism/fascism, and communism. Like for example, in the following website, like in other socialist websites, socialists try to claim that there is a "difference between private property and what they call personal property"... The fact keeps being that "personal property IS private property"...


Myth #1: Socialists want to take away your property

This myth confuses private property with personal property. When socialists talk about the abolition of private property, they are referring to the socialization of the means of production—the resources and equipment that create wealth. Working people do not own this type of property—which is why we have to work to survive.
...

www.pslweb.org...

But, that statement right there catches them in ANOTHER LIE, the claim from socialists and communists that "the people own and control the means of production"...

Yet, you will still find socialists and communists who either knowingly or unknowingly keep backing these repressive systems even after learning the truth behind them.

Anyway... is "PRIVATE PROPERTY ABOLISHED" in either "Denmark
Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, Belgium" etc?... No, hence they are NOT socialist countries, YET.


edit on 22-2-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments and links.





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