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BREAKING: Missouri Legislators Vote To Nullify All Federal Gun Control Laws

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posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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Love my state!! Go Missouri!!

reply to post by Indigo5
 


Actually your logic is flawed. Where the amount of guns have gone up, crime in Missouri since 2007 has gone down. Example, from 2007-2012 the amount of Roberies went down 20%. Perhaps the people being shot in their study were the criminals?

www.disastercenter.com...




posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by eLPresidente
 


A good waste of MO tax payers money. Federal Laws trump state laws. Period. It's funny. The harder these fanatics squeeze their Second Amendment rights crap, the faster they're going to lose what they've got now. Rave on MO 'law' makers. I bet next they'll pass about 50 state laws prohibiting Obama-Care. Very effective



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The big boys here don't take no guff... Also the %)(th just got a new AF commander out at Whiteman, a real missoura boy too this is a proud day for mo.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by TownCryer
 



Federal Laws trump state laws. Period.


It may very well be that simple outside of courtrooms and legal motions. However, this won't be fought in the court of public opinion, but the court where those motions and technical issues define winning and losing a matter. In that? State's Rights are not always subordinate to the wishes of the Federal Government. Some recent decisions have shown that, in fact....and it's how, presently, Obama's laws passed on the ACA have 0 relevance to a state like Missouri. At least in some areas of it, such as Medicare and Medicaid expansion.

Despite Federal law as passed in the mountain of regulations called the ACA, which indicate states will expand their Medi programs? The Supreme Court under Roberts made their landmark ruling on this and it was a mixed one. Half of it said the Mandate was a tax..and we gotta put up with that. The other half said States could tell 'em to get stuffed and nothing could be done about it in retaliation.

Hence...One example, but a very recent one and under the same court that'll eventually settle this with Missouri and Wyoming (among others) to show the 'conventional wisdom' and the world of law can be radically different things.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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SheopleNation
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Stricter background checks eh? You mean like if you post on a website like this, you can't own a firearm? Nope, no thanks.



I mean like if you have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia or been convicted of bank robbery. In Missouri right now there is zero requirement for buyer or seller in privately sold guns. Someone can buy a gun and sell it to a criminal, psychopath etc in the parking lot of the sporting goods store minutes later...



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by eLPresidente
 


Good on ya Missouri.

Now, will the other states that actually value freedom please do the same.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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TownCryer
reply to post by eLPresidente
 


A good waste of MO tax payers money. Federal Laws trump state laws. Period. It's funny. The harder these fanatics squeeze their Second Amendment rights crap, the faster they're going to lose what they've got now. Rave on MO 'law' makers. I bet next they'll pass about 50 state laws prohibiting Obama-Care. Very effective


Really? Because there are plenty of states RIGHT NOW currently flying in the face of federal law (Cannabis legalization, medical programs, research, etc)

You are wrong. Period. You are not only wrong in practice, you are wrong on paper to. The federal government ONLY has powers SPECIFICALLY granted to them by the constitution. That is a FACT. You cannot argue against that, sorry, because it's on paper, and has been for several hundred years.

If the constitution does NOT grant the federal government power, they do NOT have it, therefore state law trumps federal law on EVERYTHING that isn't specifically granted to the federal government in the constitution.

This is fact. You are wrong. Please apologize to your fellow Americans for being such a bad one and not knowing the history and laws of your country.

If you think constitutionally guaranteed rights are crap, then why don't you move to a country where you don't have any? If you are so happy with unchecked federal power why not move to a dictatorship or something along those lines? You don't have to do very much thinking there, should be right up your alley.

If your personal ideals are completely at odds with the founding ideas and laws of this nation, why do you want to stay here, seriously? Just to force everyone else to live exactly like you want them to? That the only thin that gives you pleasure in this world is controlling other people?
edit on 24-2-2014 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 05:00 PM
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TownCryer
reply to post by eLPresidente
 


A good waste of MO tax payers money. Federal Laws trump state laws. Period. It's funny. The harder these fanatics squeeze their Second Amendment rights crap, the faster they're going to lose what they've got now. Rave on MO 'law' makers. I bet next they'll pass about 50 state laws prohibiting Obama-Care. Very effective


You're making it personal, about the issues and not about the Constitution and states rights. I don't blame you though, issues (like the second amendment or abortion) make people extremely emotional.

Read the Tenth amendment again, and see if you understand it this time.




The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:36 PM
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Indigo5
I mean like if you have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia or been convicted of bank robbery. In Missouri right now there is zero requirement for buyer or seller in privately sold guns. Someone can buy a gun and sell it to a criminal, psychopath etc in the parking lot of the sporting goods store minutes later...


I completely understand where you're coming from, I don't want some schizo or lunatic owning a firearm either, but the problem is that these idiots on the left will create new definitions of dangerous people. Come on, you know that they will, because that is what they do. You give them an inch, they take a mile. Maybe if they had commonsense, more people would see your point. Unfortunately, they do not.

Next thing you know, if you're patriotic, and you speak out against the Government, then you're a potential terrorist who will not be able to own a firearm. Oh and that is coming soon to a theater near you anyway. Trust me, I know how these Socialist mental cases think.

Also, The criminal will always be able to sell a firearm to the schizo no matter how many laws are passed. Narcotics are illegal, yet you can get any one of them anywhere my friend. You seem intelligent, Do you understand what I am trying to say? ~$heopleNation



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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Indigo5

SheopleNation
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Stricter background checks eh? You mean like if you post on a website like this, you can't own a firearm? Nope, no thanks.



I mean like if you have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia or been convicted of bank robbery. In Missouri right now there is zero requirement for buyer or seller in privately sold guns. Someone can buy a gun and sell it to a criminal, psychopath etc in the parking lot of the sporting goods store minutes later...



Actually, Yes on #1. Absolutely NO on #2.

Yes...a private citizen can sell their private firearm to another private citizen in Missouri (as all 50 states have been..until the last decade or two for a number of them now). That sale doesn't require getting permission or giving notification to authorities. There are no purchase permits issued or required in this state. So nothing to bother with there. When sold between two private citizens, it's no different than selling a knife or a television for that matter. In fact, I've personally sold rifles at my yard sale. I got quite a nice price for the AR-15 that way.


On #2, no way, no how. That isn't even a guess, since my Wife was a little ignorant and a little quick to be helpful one time when I was buying a rifle and got a delay indicated. (Always do..and that's a whole different story). The gun dealer heard her offer to buy it for me (my wife, remember) since I was delayed. She was very firmly, altho not rudely, told that she wouldn't be permitted to buy a firearm from them, that day, because of her saying that. I ended up just waiting my 3 days and again, I'm used to it..and she's never brought that up again.

However, that is the law and even among private citizens? If you have reason to believe someone isn't qualified to own a weapon and then you sell it? Missouri is no haven for arming criminals, and you'll be going to jail if you're the seller and get caught over it. Our laws are few compared to police states like New York and California. However, we DO have some and they are the logical variety....and enforced without much B.S.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by James1982
 


Federal gun laws will NOT be overturn by states - PERIOD. When's the last time time someone walked through a mall and killed people with Pot? Great argument you got there, genius.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by TownCryer
 



Federal gun laws will NOT be overturn by states - PERIOD.


I'm sorry, but that is simply not correct to state as an absolute. There are 9 people in this nation who can and will make that determination. They serve on the Supreme Court and will, without question, get this case or one of the similar ones from other states doing and saying the same thing.

Federal power is not absolute, in any way, shape or form. That is how we are a Union of 50 States. Not a nation of 50 provinces. The difference is very large, even if some people like this President and the last one would like to pretend it doesn't exist. The Supreme Court has, does and will educate them, even Presidents, as to the error of their assumptions. They are the only authority with the power to do so.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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Indigo5
I mean like if you have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia or been convicted of bank robbery. In Missouri right now there is zero requirement for buyer or seller in privately sold guns. Someone can buy a gun and sell it to a criminal, psychopath etc in the parking lot of the sporting goods store minutes later...




There's no background check on private sales in Missouri, but that doesn't mean you can sell to anyone. Missouri state law says that it is a class D felony to knowingly sell a firearm to a person prohibited from owning one. Furthermore, your parking lot transaction would quite likely be construed as a straw purchase by the BATF, which is, again, a felony.

The point is, even though some states have no background check, the seller must still perform their due diligence and must exercise some degree of care with exactly who they're selling to, or else they can be subject to civil and criminal penalties themselves.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by vor78
 



The point is, even though some states have no background check, the seller must still perform their due diligence and must exercise some degree of care with exactly who they're selling to, or else they can be subject to civil and criminal penalties themselves.


Exactly! What the local Sheriff's Office here has told me (including yard sales with firearms) is that I'm not required to take photo ID and record information in a private sale but, as the deputy I talked to noted, HE does and strongly recommends anyone else record that information. I certainly do color copy a driver's license when I make a sale in case something comes back on me somehow, down the road.

Absolutely right on the straw man sales to. That's Federal as well as state, as you note. No way that can be done without committing a felony crime at least twice over.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Oh, right! The coming revolution. Don't hold your breath for that. Most people WANT stricter gun control. The only place where the majority of people DON'T want stricter gun control is on right-wing nut-job sites like this. I tell you guys what, when the laws do change to include stricter gun laws, you guys start your revolution. The rest of the contry will watch on TV as the 2 dozen or so of you give up, get shot, and/or get arrested. But hey, you'll all be able to feel sorry for yourselves together, in jail, lamenting the end of your 'American Freedoms'. take care.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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Wrabbit2000

Indigo5

SheopleNation
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Stricter background checks eh? You mean like if you post on a website like this, you can't own a firearm? Nope, no thanks.



I mean like if you have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia or been convicted of bank robbery. In Missouri right now there is zero requirement for buyer or seller in privately sold guns. Someone can buy a gun and sell it to a criminal, psychopath etc in the parking lot of the sporting goods store minutes later...



Actually, Yes on #1. Absolutely NO on #2.


On #2, no way, no how. That isn't even a guess, since my Wife was a little ignorant and a little quick to be helpful one time when I was buying a rifle and got a delay indicated. (Always do..and that's a whole different story). The gun dealer heard her offer to buy it for me (my wife, remember) since I was delayed. She was very firmly, altho not rudely, told that she wouldn't be permitted to buy a firearm from them, that day, because of her saying that. I ended up just waiting my 3 days and again, I'm used to it..and she's never brought that up again.


You are talking about regulations that licensed gun dealers are restricted to. If your wife had purchased the gun without that comment, she was in her rights to sell you that gun without background check or documentation at all, minutes later in the parking lot. She could have also immediately sold it to anyone passing buy in that parking lot...no background check, no receipts..no problem. Missouri has no requirement or restrictions for private gun sales...not even general in nature.


Wrabbit2000
However, that is the law and even among private citizens? If you have reason to believe someone isn't qualified to own a weapon and then you sell it? Missouri is no haven for arming criminals, and you'll be going to jail if you're the seller and get caught over it.


Incorrect. I would challenge you to find a single case of prosecution of the same in Missouri? Beyond..."Hey...pretty please, don't sell your gun to crazy people or criminals" there is no legal consequence for doing the same in Missouri.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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vor78

The point is, even though some states have no background check, the seller must still perform their due diligence and must exercise some degree of care with exactly who they're selling to, or else they can be subject to civil and criminal penalties themselves.


So 2011 about 3000 guns used in crimes were traced in Missouri and 2/3rds of them originated in Missouri via an initial legal sale. How many prosecutions for those private sales? Zero... The key word is "knowingly" when a seller is not obligated to ask anything.
www.stlbeacon.org...#!/content/26919/tracing_the_guns_090712

edit on 25-2-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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Indigo5
So 2011 about 3000 guns used in crimes were traced in Missouri and 2/3rds of them originated in Missouri via an initial legal sale. How many prosecutions for those private sales? Zero... The key word is "knowingly" when a seller is not obligated to ask anything.
www.stlbeacon.org...#!/content/26919/tracing_the_guns_090712

edit on 25-2-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)


Yet the fact is, the laws against it do exist. Instead of showing a need for more laws, you may have proven that Missouri has a law enforcement problem.

Understand that in theory, I have no real problem with requiring a background check on private sales, as long as that's strictly all it applies to. I'm just saying that there are already laws against the type of criminal behavior you're describing, and that passing new ones likely won't help if they're already ignoring the ones on the books.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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TownCryer
Most people WANT stricter gun control. The only place where the majority of people DON'T want stricter gun control is on right-wing nut-job sites like this.


Perhaps it is a majority, but if it is, its a small one. The fact is, the long-term trend has been against tighter gun control for at least a couple of decades. Even the uptick in support last year during the big gun control push has largely subsided. In fact, if that 20 year trend continues, as it likely will, its quite possible that an anti-gun position will be politically non-viable at the national level in another decade or so, and if last year is any evidence, it may in fact already be. And if you need any more evidence of it, consider how much time, money and effort many Congressional Democrats are going to spend this fall trying to convince their constituents that they're not anti-gun. Really. Honestly. They're not.

One only has to look at the number of NICS checks to understand why. The number of background checks has increased every year since 2002, nearly tripling in that time, with over 21 million last year alone. The implication is that more people are buying guns that ever before, which will, most likely, fuel that long-term trend mentioned above to continue for the foreseeable future.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by eLPresidente
 


I love my home State. Lots of common sense and personal responsibility can be found there.



Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.

usnews.nbcnews.com...

Compare those statistics to these.....



The Institute of Medicine’s (IOM) seminal study of preventable medical errors estimated as many as 98,000 people die every year at a cost of $29 billion.1 If the Centers for Disease Control were to include preventable medical errors as a category, these conclusions would make it the sixth leading cause of death in America. 2

www.justice.org...

Some folks, whether they are the majority or not, have their priorities a little upside down.

Missouri just told the Feds that they are not going to punish the many for the sins of the few.



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