Praying?

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posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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I was reading a thread about a little girl, whose family was praying over her. The next day she woke up from a deep coma. Now, just to be clear, I do not beleive this story. It did make me think of something though. Why do people even bother praying? Why do they thank God? Please try reading this through.

Bad things happen to good people every day. I cannot provide you with many personal or particular instances, but I can assure you that these scenerios have occured.

-A parent goes to bed, and prays to God that her child is protected through the night. In the morning, she wakes up to find her child dead. The child was innocent, and the parent was a good person...who prayed. Why did her child die?

-A God fearing, church going father of four, goes to work in the morning. On the way, someone falls asleep at the wheel and swerves into on-coming traffic. The father is killed in the accident. The wife usually prays for her husbands safe trip every morning, but she forgot that day.

-A group of people pray for the health of their friend to be restored. The friend dies three days later in absolute agony.

Here are a few for thought as well....

-A student prays to do well on a test....ends up with an A+.

-A family member runs a grinder over their hand, tearing all the tendons clean out. The family prays, and the doctors are able to restore the hand to use. (this just happened in my family)

-A poor family has no money for a turkey for thanksgiving. A charity donates food and gifts. They thank God.

I could go on for hours writing these situations down. I am sure all of you reading this could as well. Did God betray the mother. Was god mad at the wife who forgot to pray? Did he forget about the group of people and their suffering friend? Did he hear the call of the student? Did he guide the doctors hands? Did he come to the aid of the poor family when they were in need? I tried to get this from several angles so that it is easier to understand my point.

Those questions above all have one answer in my opinion. No. As some of you know, I strongly argue against predetermination and an Omnipotent God. A lot of people will argue that the things above were all part of Gods divine plan. If this is the case (which I do not agree with), then it is useless to pray. He has his own ageda, and aparently does not need any advisors. What if He has no divine plan? Well, then that means that he has to pick and chose who to help out. Sometimes he helps out the good people, and sometimes the bad. If there is no divine agenda, then that means His decisions are completely random. It would be more along the lines of a lucky roll of the dice when he listened to your prayer.

Why do people have such little self regard? Why does it have to be God that helped her get the A+. She did the studying. Why was it God, and not the doctors who saved the mans hand? (this one is personal...and I can assure you that many people attest the man using his hand now to God, not the doctors). Why can it not be the good will of the charity, that is responsible for the thanksgiving suprise? Why rationalize the death of a child or husband as God's lack of protection? Why rationalize it as part of a divine plan? (completely illogical).

What is wrong with these things just being part of life? Part of a life that is left for us to live, whether God exists or not. Part of a life where interference from a divine being simply does not, and cannot occur. If that comatose child did actually wake up in the hospital that day, why not give credit to the doctors? Or just accept that sometimes good things happen by chance. If that father dies on his way to work, why can't we attribute it to ourselves. Our way of life.

You can go thank God for that A on your test, or for the restored hand. You can thank God for thanksgiving meals. You can attribute horrible occurances to lack of prayer, or divine plan. Do this all you want. You are just neglecting to see that it is actually us. Humans, that are responsible for all of it in some way or another. Good and bad.



[Edited on 11/23/2004 by Seapeople]




posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
I was reading a thread about a little girl, whose family was praying over her. The next day she woke up from a deep coma. Now, just to be clear, I do not beleive this story.


Why do you automatically disbelieve it? It could be true or not true. The thing is the definition of 'prayer' and it's workings. The power of Prayer does not have to do anything with the interference of a higher power. Perhaps it merely has powerful psychological effects in a sort of psychosomatic way.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Seapeople
I was reading a thread about a little girl, whose family was praying over her. The next day she woke up from a deep coma. Now, just to be clear, I do not beleive this story.


Why do you automatically disbelieve it? It could be true or not true. The thing is the definition of 'prayer' and it's workings. The power of Prayer does not have to do anything with the interference of a higher power. Perhaps it merely has powerful psychological effects in a sort of psychosomatic way.



I know that there are no documented cases of comatose patients waking up and regaining full consciousness on record. That is why I automatically disbelieve it. If the girl was in an accident and left unconscious for a very short period of time, it could be possible, though unlikely. The thread I am referring to though, does intentionally leave the impression that this was a serious coma, of the long term. That is why I automatically disbelieve it. Being open minded does not mean giving everything credibility.

As far as prayer, psycological effects are definitely possible. That could be compared with talking to yourself. I am addresing the issue of a higher power listening to prayer.

[Edited on 11/23/2004 by Seapeople]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
I know that there are no documented cases of comatose patients waking up and regaining full consciousness on record. That is why I automatically disbelieve it.


Well, that is logical thinking, but I can't imagine that there has never been a documented case of it somewhere.



I am addresing the issue of a higher power listening to prayer.


Ok. I do not perscribe to the notion of a conscious, god-like entity so I simply would not use that in my reasoning of the situation.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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As far as patients waking up from prolonged or deep coma's, some have come out of the sleep like state. Only to be severely brain damaged and vegetable like. A coma is caused by very severe trauma to the brain. You go unconscious due to the brain damage caused by blunt force, lack of blood and oxygen, or chemical exposure. There are no documented cases of recovery full recovery.

Even if you do not entertain a higher power, you can still discuss my points. My point in short, without detailed explanation is:

There is no reason to pray, whether there is a God or not. It is not logical to believe that you will be rewarded for doing so, at least when it comes to things in our life. Make the argument of an afterlife here if you want, but that is not what I am questioning.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
There is no reason to pray, whether there is a God or not. It is not logical to believe that you will be rewarded for doing so, at least when it comes to things in our life. Make the argument of an afterlife here if you want, but that is not what I am questioning.


Sorry, but you won't get much argument with me on this topic as I basicly agree with you.

My problem with prayer to 'something else' is a bit different though. When you pray you are submitting yourself to a force outside of your own power. You are, in a sense, giving up any sense of control that you have and becoming subsurviant.

Now I know that you can do very little if your friend gets his head ripped off before your eyes as it is not in your power to 'fit it'. However there is a difference between trying (even though it maybe futile) and just begging for things to get better.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 02:02 PM
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That is a good point that you make. When you pray, you are basically begging for control to be taken from you. You are begging that reality will change. You are admitting, subconsciously, that you are an inferior being. It goes right along with, thanking God for fixing the hand, or for the A on the test. Almost as if, "stupid humans" are incapable of doing anything on their own. It is almost insulting to me sometimes, how poorly people grade themselves and me.

People get their own grades. People heal their own wounds.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
People get their own grades. People heal their own wounds.


You want an A on a test then you can either take charge and do the work to get an A or you pray. Me? I'll take control of my own future everytime. If you want something then do what it takes to make it happen.

Hope is a grand thing, but hope without determination and action won't even get you a small coffee and Sunday paper.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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Praying is basically talking to God. What you are describing here is people who only talk to God to ask for things. Do these prayers get answered. I would say 100% yes. Is the answer "yes" every time. Of course not.

This does bring up a good question. Why doesn't God give us everything we want? Well, let's cut out all of the stupid things that people ask for and say that we only ask for good things. Why can't we have every good thing we ask for? The only answer I can come up with is that maybe some of the good things we ask for aren't as good for us as we think they are. It's quite possible that we aren't as wise as we think we are.


I don't believe that there's anything wrong with asking for help with a test, or praying for healing, but you should do as much as you can yourself first. Study for that exam, and see a doctor if you're sick. In every instance in the Bible, when God performed miracles, the recipient had to perform some task first. The Red Sea didn't part until Moses held up his staff. Elisha didn't heal the Syrian officer Naaman of leprosy instantly, he had to go bathe in the Jordan river first. (Yucky) These small task seemed insignificant in respect with the miracle that occurred, but they showed the receivers willingness to do their part.

I think if you've done your part then it's fine to ask God for extra help. You may not get the answer you think you should, but you have at least done as much as you can to wards achieving that goal. Praying for things is fine, just don't use it as a crutch or excuse to be lazy.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by dbates
Praying is basically talking to God. What you are describing here is people who only talk to God to ask for things. Do these prayers get answered. I would say 100% yes. Is the answer "yes" every time. Of course not.

This does bring up a good question. Why doesn't God give us everything we want? Well, let's cut out all of the stupid things that people ask for and say that we only ask for good things. Why can't we have every good thing we ask for? The only answer I can come up with is that maybe some of the good things we ask for aren't as good for us as we think they are. It's quite possible that we aren't as wise as we think we are.


I don't believe that there's anything wrong with asking for help with a test, or praying for healing, but you should do as much as you can yourself first. Study for that exam, and see a doctor if you're sick. In every instance in the Bible, when God performed miracles, the recipient had to perform some task first. The Red Sea didn't part until Moses held up his staff. Elisha didn't heal the Syrian officer Naaman of leprosy instantly, he had to go bathe in the Jordan river first. (Yucky) These small task seemed insignificant in respect with the miracle that occurred, but they showed the receivers willingness to do their part.

I think if you've done your part then it's fine to ask God for extra help. You may not get the answer you think you should, but you have at least done as much as you can to wards achieving that goal. Praying for things is fine, just don't use it as a crutch or excuse to be lazy.


People answer their own prayers. Thats just for starters.

You might be right though....maybe it is for the better that good people suffer terribly with cancer for months.....not being able to eat, having a distinct smell of death and cancer, fearing death (whether they admit it or not) every moment...even if they want it (which is often the case), not being able to get up even to see the outdoors or the sky one last time, seeing their relatives greive even before they are gone, having trouble swallowing, having trouble breathing, feeling excruciating pain throughoout their body, and so much more. You are definitely right. That serves such a great purpose, I just can't see it because I am human and I am stupid right? God is so smart. After all, he created illness. He created hell. He even created bad decisions. He created our decisions... He set the stage for all of this. He must know what he is doing.





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