Former NASA Astrobiologist claims: evidence of alien life on Mars was destroyed!

wildespace

All humans are fallible, but it's the scientific method that gives us the truth. It's not about people, it's about the methods they use. What gave us spaceflight, computers, advanced medicine and technologies? Science, performed by scientists.

If the scientific method was solely the domain of an infallible and incorruptible AI, that would make sense. Instead, we have fail-safe systematic processes in place (the scientific method) but they are carried out by corruptible people.

There is always an agenda when a research team is funded. Sometimes that agenda is curiosity, which is what we want, but all to often that agenda is in the pocket of a private interest. With the ability to have funding switch hands so easily, it is impossible to tell which results are biased and which ones are done with the pure interest of science.

Look at the climate change debate. How can there be so many opinions on it from scientists if they are all following the same scientific method? Money. We see that on both sides of the debate. Same with studying or searching for extraterrestrial life.

So "science, performed by scientists" is not always science... sometimes it's business.

Dr. Hoover was actually being quite careful about what he said. He did not say, even when the interviewer tried to lead him there, that NASA destroyed his supposed fossil as an act of concealment. They didn't think it a fossil, and dealt with the object as seemed best to them. If there is one fossil on Mars, there are very likely a great many more, and this will become apparent, eventually.

It is quite frequently the case that one object looks a great deal like something else. This resemblance is not a sufficient basis, in itself, to establish the identity of the object in question. A good practical knowledge of how human perception works, and how it can mislead are part of a clear and careful view of the world(s).

reply to post by wildespace


The morphological characeristics alone were not what convinced him that these are martian fossils. He mentions other reasons, including the concentration of various elements. What I want to know is whether anyone has published a paper rebutting his publications, using scientific methods to do so? If his ideas really are wrong, then another scientist should be able to systematically lay out why he is wrong. And considering that this man' results were published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, any responses should only be taken seriously if they too are published.

Anyone can get online and debunk something, but that doesn't mean they are correct. But an actual scientist, if they know they are right, would publish their opinions where they could be read by others in the same field. Not doing so may indicate that they know they're wrong, and that those who know better will "out" them. Most people don't possess the specialized knowledge to know what to believe.

JiggyPotamus
reply to post by wildespace

 

The morphological characeristics alone were not what convinced him that these are martian fossils. He mentions other reasons, including the concentration of various elements. What I want to know is whether anyone has published a paper rebutting his publications, using scientific methods to do so? If his ideas really are wrong, then another scientist should be able to systematically lay out why he is wrong. And considering that this man' results were published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, any responses should only be taken seriously if they too are published.

Anyone can get online and debunk something, but that doesn't mean they are correct. But an actual scientist, if they know they are right, would publish their opinions where they could be read by others in the same field. Not doing so may indicate that they know they're wrong, and that those who know better will "out" them. Most people don't possess the specialized knowledge to know what to believe.

This is why his research was shot down so to speak.

carnegiescience.edu...

He went from the scientists that discovered life on mars to the guy that misidentified meteor fragments. Thats a big hit for anyones ego. It wasnt a conspiracy to destroy his data when you publish research other scientists will always check behind you in this case they showed it was natural. But there is a key point it shows us that the building blocks for life did indeed exist on mars. Now its just a matter of finding the proof NASA wants to be the one to make that announcement so the clocks ticking. Because several countries like india are starting mars exploration and they dont want India to find it before they do. Call this this sort of an arms race between scientists.

reply to post by dragonridr


I wish more countries would follow suit. We need a fire lit under our bottoms again to properly fund nasa. Imagine the progress we could have made with all the dough we choose to fund wars in other countries. It's a sickness and we need a cure.

We could notify the federal government that there are large stashes of narcotics hidden throughout the landscape of mars. They'd have no knock warrants for that rock in the am.

God forbid we pursue life; not death!!!

Hypocrites

Char-LeeWhat do you mean by evidence of claims? I spoke to the scientist who had collected and was studying the red rain. His findings were astonishing and yet he was frustrated to find he could get no interest from any other scientists to work on the project because they we all afraid they would have to put their name on a claim of "alien life" and what it would do to their Careers!

Where are his findings published? All he has to do is publish. Why won't he? What we have are his CLAIMS. There is zero evidence. If I am mistaken, and he published in a peer reviewed journal, source it.

Char-Lee

Dec. 2, 2010: NASA-supported researchers have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic.

Please take a look at what NASA studies. They are the experts on unusual and extreme life on Earth. They are the ones in the know for such things, does that surprise you?

edit on 21-2-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

I already addressed that study. Now how about you actually show me NASA acting as a 3rd party investigating CLAIMS made by people.

NASA does research into things that can be translated into life found elsewhere. They do not act as a 3rd party verification source of fringe claims. Ever.

TiedDestructor
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I wish more countries would follow suit. We need a fire lit under our bottoms again to properly fund nasa. Imagine the progress we could have made with all the dough we choose to fund wars in other countries. It's a sickness and we need a cure.

We could notify the federal government that there are large stashes of narcotics hidden throughout the landscape of mars. They'd have no knock warrants for that rock in the am.

God forbid we pursue life; not death!!!

Hypocrites

For many decades NASA was the only game in town and this made them complacent.Hey figured well we get to that later well now we have space agencies popping up all over the place making huge plans and doing the stuff NASA thought only they could do. Theres Japan,India,China,the EU and lets not forget the russians who are supplying the international space station because the US can't. If NASA doesnt get off there but soon there wont be a NASA no point in funding it if we just rely on other nations exploration any way. Thats why i laugh when these conspiracies come up about NASA hiding aliens they would be screaming it from the roof tops and immediately go to congress with some elaborate plan costing 100s of billions. And if they had proof of aliens would get it imagine what they could do with a blank check.


Did it not ocur to anyone why NASA says the rover is there to look not for life but for areas which may contain life. It strictly political if they sent the rover up there saying were looking for life and then dont find it makes funding hard for future missions. If they say well we werent looking for life so not finding its ok we were looking for places to look for it on further missions. See its called politics.

reply to post by Arken


Arken I have asked, you refuse to answer me. What should NASA have done with the "fossil"?

templar knight
I have some sympathy for NASA. Remember that it was 6 months after CERN recorded particles faster than light that they announced their discovery, they wanted to check and double check. Scientists are by nature, very cautious creatures.

And the team of the scientist who announced it said it should not have been announced, it turned out to be false, and the guy who announced it was "fired" because the team no longer trusted him.

This is an really interesting thread, for sure. That said, all of you are missing the big picture here. NASA isn't there looking for life, well, primarily. Its quite obvious they're on mars testing rocks and soil for the presence of mine able minerals and metals.

There is all that rock out there that no one has claim on, Why wouldn't they be looking for a possible future mining site?

Astronomical monetary value for any nation who can get there, set up shop, and ship it home.

Come on people, think outside the box

wildespace
So he thinks those small round things are fossils, based on the similarity of their shape. But morphology alone cannot be used unambiguously as a tool for primitive life detection.
proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org...

Those things are probably concretions.
Concretions vs. fossils

So, another thread with a loud, sensational title, but little to show for it. A former NASA scientists does not make an infallible expert; plenty of knowledgeable (Fixed your spelling) people with big achievements went down the pseudo-science/conspiracy/anti-mainstream path.

Still, I admire your enthusiasm Arken.

But the video isn't using those as criteria to prove life, he used an electron microscope to see the bio materials and those materials contained no nitrogen, which proves they weren't contaminates, meaning they were not from the earth. The visual showing the berries also wasn't how any determination was made, so it isn't a case of misidentification either.

EyesOpenMouthShut
This is an really interesting thread, for sure. That said, all of you are missing the big picture here. NASA isn't there looking for life, well, primarily. Its quite obvious they're on mars testing rocks and soil for the presence of mine able minerals and metals.

There is all that rock out there that no one has claim on, Why wouldn't they be looking for a possible future mining site?

Astronomical monetary value for any nation who can get there, set up shop, and ship it home.

Come on people, think outside the box

edit on 2/21/2014 by EyesOpenMouthShut because: (no reason given)

False. They can only do so much on each mission, so they have a set of agenda's, and each new mission builds on the last.
mars.nasa.gov...

In 2020 they are sending another rover and life is a big part of that mission.

Designed to advance high-priority science goals for Mars exploration, the mission would address key questions about the potential for life on Mars

mars.nasa.gov...

EyesOpenMouthShut
This is an really interesting thread, for sure. That said, all of you are missing the big picture here. NASA isn't there looking for life, well, primarily. Its quite obvious they're on mars testing rocks and soil for the presence of mine able minerals and metals.

edit on 2/21/2014 by EyesOpenMouthShut because: (no reason given)

If this is all it is, I'm left wondering why they haven't announced this as a goal? All I can find are their stated purposes whether Mars was, is, or can be, a habitable world.

Of course it is a given one would think they would be interested in metals and minerals like you mention..

But after seeing how NASA operates in public, and then looking at how they obfuscate things and even discoveries, it is anyone's guess what they really want.

dragonridr

Char-Lee

dragonridr

Char-Lee

wmd_2008
The real problem on here with the ATS NASA hater crowd (the thread starter one of many on here) is that if NASA say or show one thing that vaguely supports evidence of life on Mars or elsewhere or ET evidence elsewhere then NASA is great, but anything said or shown in the other direction and NASA is lying or hiding things make your mind up people!!!!!

Sadly both things can be true. NASA is not one person, any hidden agenda may not belong to every NASA scientist...in fact clearly it can't, and yet when you work for someone you follow orders.

So NASA has an agenda to suppress alien life yet there employees aren't told that makes alot of sense do you often make circular arguments?

There are all levels of workers and who is privy to what information.

See You have a severe lack of understanding on how NASA operates. Do you realize that they arent even in control of the entire rover? See NASA works in collaborations with other scientists throughout the world. For example Chem cam is a spectral analyser on board the rover. its data is not only received by NASA but also the other peope that worked on it. Which would be the national lab in los alamos and Deputy Project Scientist Sylvestre Maurice of the Institut de Recherche en Astrophysique et Planetologie (IRAP) in Toulouse, France. So in order for NASA to hide things they would have to get scientists from all over the world to agree to cover up the data. Pay attention when NASA makes an announcement it is never just NASA it will always be some professor from the university of so and so. NASA is a consultant for scientific investigation they dont set the agenda.

Well there may be things many of us don't understand. I found this interesting.
astroengineer.wordpress.com...

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Yes, because we should all believe what the government says. They never lie or tell half truths. come on, theres not much money to be made in searching for microorganisms or in what Mars used to look like. Open your eyes

EyesOpenMouthShut
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Yes, because we should all believe what the government says. They never lie or tell half truths. come on, theres not much money to be made in searching for microorganisms or in what Mars used to look like. Open your eyes

Yes, much better to scream lies and then when you are proven wrong (as you are EVERY TIME) ignore it and keep screaming lies about something else. NASA has and will continue to search for life on Mars, and the searching will get better as more information is available.

Stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not happening.

Back to the OP, what SHOULD NASA have done here? People keep demonizing NASA claiming what they did was wrong, yet every time I ask what should have been done it's silence.

NASA was a public agency created by the need to have a government agency to deal with the growing science and projects for public funding, but also as a strategic arm of the military. The shuttle was a military design, and most of the missions were military until the other space programs could operate without public delivery questions. There are other space agencies many have cited, and discoveries like Gary McKinnon finding documents and photos of secret fleets and officers for off world duty, fleet transfers and names of ships that did not correspond to US Fleet names. Lots more on this subject, but really NASA is sort of a stand in for likely the real agencies doing work off world. And as the governments and technology is already controlled by the giant corporations, any information that would put eyes on their actual space projects or reveal energy and science advances they keep hidden for strategic and profit-bearing value is squelched or dealt with.

As for life outside Earth, for anyone with a general understanding of the sciences and astrophysics, astronomy and knowledge of the sciences knows by simple logic and critical thinking that life is all throughout the known universe. The only question is if we have had contact, or if there is evidence here of such we can reference. I can say there is more than enough evidence in many places that has been systematically covered up, and many that have not. More than we can count have had direct contact and would swear on what they know. Countless sightings, crash and recovery accounts by military and officials, metallurgical, chemical and witness testimony including FOIA documents says yes. Life from "other" places whether space born/other dimensions are here too.

Panspermia is a solid and accepted theory also, where lifeforms or fossil born rock and materials are ejected from other planetary bodies through impacts or other critical events. What "living" things are not killed by cosmic rays and ionizing energies travels for eons until pulled in by a gravitational well like the Earths or any other planetary body.

The Red Rain of Kerala India was likely a Panspermia event, and if you read the science that was done it does not diminish that possibility. It was preceded by a loud clap of thunder and a flash. Exactly how such an event would transpire. The non-DNA factor is not out of the question, because we do not have any understanding of other lifeforms yet. But the red cell-like forms acted like life, with mitosis-like reproduction. Read the details and see for yourself how likely this was as such an event of Panspermia.

Life on this planet was likely seeded by such an event and then modified by visiting intelligences. Comets that have passed by and Earth deposited dust as we crossed the tails have preceded pandemics and wide spread diseases that could not have spread by travel, because of the weeks and months it took to cross land and sea to go anywhere. See this site to read about such serious scientific acknowledgement of events like this. Journal of Cosmology

I have seen over the years many articles and news about findings of civilizations here on Earth pre-dating the Dinosaurs. So why not? in the 4.54 billion years Earth has existed it could have had many cycles of civilized intelligent life, and there is evidence to prove this. But all evidence of any structures we could build would be gone in 10,000 years, so you can see how easy such would be hidden in a hundred thousand years out of the billions Earth could sustain life.


So life forms leaving evidence from here or other worlds are possible, and I as many believe not only likely but do exist.

Mars to is over 4.5 billion years old too. We now believe it had seas, rivers oceans and atmosphere for much of it's existence. How likely is it then that in all those years life did exist? Even intelligent life? Taking into consideration Panspermia and the more than likely universal propensity for lifeforms to grow, proliferate and evolve in any types of conditions from glacial ice and rock a mile deep to deep ocean vents at 8,500 feet deep and temperatures of 80 °C (176 °F)

Mark Lever of Aarhus University in Denmark announced in the journal Science that he had discovered microbial life-forms living on the chemical energy trapped in volcanic rocks at the bottom of the sea. And for the first time microbes were found living deep inside the Earth’s oceanic crust. As deep as a mile below the ocean bottom life was found. How hard then is it to believe such could live in large asteroids or comets for billions of years until they find a planet to live? Deepest Life

NASA is powerless to really do anything about discoveries cited here. The NASA scientists are great people and smart, as I have been honored to have worked with some, but they can only go so far on the leash NASA is given, and the other real space agencies do not exist for us, by design.

This reality we know now will not be confirmed by anyone but ourselves. There is no one to prove these realities to. There is just us being as intelligent and critical as we can until it becomes accepted fact and common knowledge. One more generation maybe. If we can sustain our existence that long with all the stupidity we have suffered in ourselves.

ZG

reply to post by Arken


Hey Arkin!

I posted this in your "Hugo" thread. It's from the same Pano www.edtruthan.com... just below "Hugo" in the bottom, right hand corner. I think those little rock flowers look like crinoids.







Cool pictures of fossils

I'd love to see evidence of life on a rock so close to us, it would be really sad to know this was down to carelessness. But to be honest, it's clear that NASA are hiding 'something', maybe evidence of life, or maybe something more sinister. It's quite clear that NASA is a PR front for the US government, as credibility (lo and behold) is as low as the government itself, particularly when it comes to photographs, the masses only get to see blurred detail. If they slip up and we see something they didn't want to, they can't deny or delete it because it's already out there, so when you have a robotic machine on the site, destroy it! People (including professionals) would always say "this photograph looks like a fossil, go back to that site and get a closer look", but there's no need to if they destroy it. Once they've done that, the original image will be made into a folklore legend, much like the chocolate rations in Orwell's 1984. There's alot of people out there who accept all white lies.

We've already found alien life, it's just that it's kept as trinket knowledge for the "elite". Destroying evidence cannot be down to carelessness because of the fact that humans have been looking for "other" life, since the day we were self-aware mammals. It's the reason we exist. Such an operation as exploring mars would be done with extreme care to preserve anything that might hint to the slightest evidence of life. I refuse to accept that NASA damaged a potential fossil without an agenda.