God does not change, the law does not either

Is it confusion or a conspiracy
God does not change

The Old Testament does not teach a brutal God, it teaches a brutal law.
The law of Moses is the natural law of life
Tooth for tooth, eye for an eye and blood for blood.
Is that hard to understand, is the law fair or is it just?
The OT God is no different from Jesus, God established a law that is still in effect today.

Remember God created Eden for relationship, not this damaged world.

Now Jesus came to set humanity free from the law, if they so much as ask and carry the cross, we can be redeemed from sin in Christ

God sent Jesus to humanity to pay the blood debt because of His love for us.
God couldnt send anything less than perfection to pay the debt because only God is perfect.
Humanity had to pay the debt so God had to become human to honour the debt demanded by the law. God sent part of Himself in the Trinity, Jesus

Jesus was lifted up for humanity to see and Jesus honoured/served God as he died.
God honoured/served Jesus on the cross.
Nobody is greater or lesser, we are here to forgive and serve, inspired by Jesus.


The law is not God, the law of the OT still exists and will be used to judge mankind on judgement day


To say there is an OT God and a NT God is to ignore the whole bible

reply to post by borntowatch


Thanks for the clarification.

So it is OK to own slaves....




Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

reply to post by borntowatch


Nothing to add, just S&F, and thanks.

reply to post by olaru12


Don't ignore Jesus.

Yeah, sure, it's okay to own slaves by the Law, but you would still be obligated to love them if you wanted to give honor to God.

reply to post by borntowatch


God HAD to go by the law? Whose law? His own? I figured he'd just do what he wants. He didn't have to do anything. Laws, human sacrifice and demanding to be worshipped are human traits and fall well short of anything "divine".

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace


You make the mistake of judging by the standards of Men, not of God.

God didn't make the Law, HE IS the Law. The Law says that sin is death, but that love is life. God made sin and love, but we have to choose which one to fall to. Sin is doubt and love is faith. Do you doubt God or do you love Him? If you doubt Him, you have to die, but if you love Him, He will restore your life even from beyond death. Even He is not above Himself. If He doubted Himself, He would die. The meaning of Law isn't to condemn, but to bring truth.

I doubted God, so I was condemned to death, but I turned away from my doubt into the arms of love, and now I live more fully than ever before. But even yet, I'm not free from the Law, because I am still bound by doubt. The only thing I can do to lift these doubts is to continue to love God in the face of all adversity. Only then can I be free from the pain of Death, yet remain within the Law.

olaru12
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Thanks for the clarification.

So it is OK to own slaves....




Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Are you denying slavery
Do you understand biblical slavery
Would you prefer that there were no laws to govern slavery

ItCameFromOuterSpace
reply to post by borntowatch

 

God HAD to go by the law? Whose law? His own? I figured he'd just do what he wants. He didn't have to do anything. Laws, human sacrifice and demanding to be worshipped are human traits and fall well short of anything "divine".

Better you worship beer tv pornography (I am not directing this at you personally)

God didnt want the law, didnt want sin, gave us freewill and Eden. That was the ideal

borntowatch

olaru12
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Thanks for the clarification.

So it is OK to own slaves....




Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Are you denying slavery
Do you understand biblical slavery
Would you prefer that there were no laws to govern slavery

Wait, so slavery is OK in your silly little biblical world as long as the bible tells you how to handle slavery...

reply to post by borntowatch

God sent Jesus to humanity to pay the blood debt because of His love for us.
God couldnt send anything less than perfection to pay the debt because only God is perfect.
Humanity had to pay the debt so God had to become human to honour the debt demanded by the law.

Could you elaborate on what this "debt" is and where you get this idea from?

reply to post by borntowatch


Correction: Gods law does not change (apparently)... but humanity does... and the people that wrote the Bible, reciting, paraphrasing, the 'word of God' are not the same people of today. Show a man a jet back then, "a vehicle of God", show a man today, "such engineering!". ...tell a woman back then to get in the kitchen, threaten punishment when she doesn't... tell her today, sleep on the couch! xD (weak examples, but, meh.)

Talking 'law', that too is subjective. We no longer (I hope we no longer) sacrifice virgins to volcanoes, or sheep on hill-tops, or stone people... er... And tooth for tooth is not the natural law. Lions don't attack buffalo because a buffalo attacked them, trees don't split boulders because the boulder restricted them, humans are seemingly the biggest proponents of revenge, but revenge is cowardly - we're choking on teeth, eyes and blood... not my drink of preference.

In short; "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man" - the Dude

meh, well here's mine, somewhat - at work can't review, but I think this fits, even a bit. lol.

reply to post by borntowatch

Your main point is obviously that there will be a judgement, which is what the New Testament teaches.
So far, so good.

I think it's a mistake, though, to assume that the standard of judgement will be the written law of the OT.
What about those who never knew it?

Paul has an answer to that question;
"When Gentiles who have not the Law do by nature what the Law requires, they are a Law unto themselves...They show that what the Law requires is written on their hearts"- Romans ch2 vv14-15
In other words, there is a more basic, more accessible Law of God, independent of the written Law of the OT, and I suggest that judgement would actually be based on this more basic unwritten Law.

On the argument in your title- the fact that God does not change does not mean that the law cannot change.
I've got a series of threads which is currently working through this issue.
I see God as working like a teacher, who adjusts the style of his teaching to the capacity of the pupils that he's working with- just as infants are not taught in the same way as university students.
The laws outlined in the Old Testament represent one level of teaching.
But the Sermon on the Mount is a more advanced level.

So there is no reason why the detail of the law cannot be changed.
Later this evening, for example, I'll be looking at that question in relation to the law about husbands and wives.

reply to post by borntowatch


Good stuff... but some aspects of the law were rendered obsolete in the NT. For example, the NT makes obsolete the Sabbath commandment, food and drink laws, offerings, just to name a few. The law was never meant to be followed perfectly by man, because that is impossible and God knew this when He implemented it. That makes what Jesus accomplished even more amazing, because He was the only one capable of remaining perfect within the law in order to fulfill it.

DISRAELI
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Your main point is obviously that there will be a judgement, which is what the New Testament teaches.
So far, so good.

I think it's a mistake, though, to assume that the standard of judgement will be the written law of the OT.
What about those who never knew it?

Paul has an answer to that question;
"When Gentiles who have not the Law do by nature what the Law requires, they are a Law unto themselves...They show that what the Law requires is written on their hearts"- Romans ch2 vv14-15
In other words, there is a more basic, more accessible Law of God, independent of the written Law of the OT, and I suggest that judgement would actually be based on this more basic unwritten Law.

On the argument in your title- the fact that God does not change does not mean that the law cannot change.
I've got a series of threads which is currently working through this issue.
I see God as working like a teacher, who adjusts the style of his teaching to the capacity of the pupils that he's working with- just as infants are not taught in the same way as university students.
The laws outlined in the Old Testament represent one level of teaching.
But the Sermon on the Mount is a more advanced level.

So there is no reason why the detail of the law cannot be changed.
Later this evening, for example, I'll be looking at that question in relation to the law about husbands and wives.

I would like a little more detail
How can the law be changed, does God have a senate?

The laws are written on our hearts, our hearts are hardened
I like your series of threads, I enjoy what you say and there depth

reply to post by borntowatch


You are right that God does not change, the law does not either. It is mans understanding of god that changes and over eons some day human will finally understand god in all it's glory on all levels. And I could not care less if this is against the bible since the bible is a man made interpretation thru a few humans of god not the direct word of god in all it's glory and higher level understanding in what all is.

Jesus was a very good teacher but the students where not on the level he taught, as the change of the spiritual core by Paul proves that latter became the Christian faith we know about today.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


From my understanding only the moral law exists for followers of Christ.
My post was not a bible study, it was an explanation of Jesus and His relationship to the OT

Please dont theologically overreach the context

LittleByLittle
reply to post by borntowatch

 

You are right that God does not change, the law does not either. It is mans understanding of god that changes and over eons some day human will finally understand god in all it's glory on all levels. And I could not care less if this is against the bible since the bible is a man made interpretation thru a few humans of god not the direct word of god in all it's glory and higher level understanding in what all is.

Jesus was a very good teacher but the students where not on the level he taught, as the destruction of the spiritual core by Paul proves that latter became the Christian faith we know about today.

If Jesus was just a teacher then He was a liar and deserved death

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Good stuff... but some aspects of the law were rendered obsolete in the NT. For example, the NT makes obsolete the Sabbath commandment, food and drink laws, offerings, just to name a few. The law was never meant to be followed perfectly by man, because that is impossible and God knew this when He implemented it. That makes what Jesus accomplished even more amazing, because He was the only one capable of remaining perfect within the law in order to fulfill it.

Yeah ok so...
I am not a theologian, you are correct
Apologies all around

jmdewey60
reply to post by borntowatch

 

God sent Jesus to humanity to pay the blood debt because of His love for us.
God couldnt send anything less than perfection to pay the debt because only God is perfect.
Humanity had to pay the debt so God had to become human to honour the debt demanded by the law.

Could you elaborate on what this "debt" is and where you get this idea from?

As I previously stated I am no theologian, I think you want to make a statement.
Please go ahead, I want to know your understanding

Mine is simple, sin equals death, the debt is sin


No games

borntowatch
I would like a little more detail
How can the law be changed, does God have a senate?

There's a New Testament answer to that question.
What God has is the Holy Spirit, who knows his mind absolutely-
""No-one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God"- 1 Corinthians ch2 v11
But we have received the Holy Spirit.
So we get our guidance direct from the Holy Spirit instead of from the written law-
"We serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit"- Romans ch7v6
The written laws could be checked against the guidance of the Spirit ("No, don't bother with circumcision, but you're still not allowed to commit adultery") and that's how the law got changed.