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BREAKING: AZ Senate Passes 'Right to Discriminate' Bill

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posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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vkey08

kosmicjack
reply to post by vkey08
 


Yes, they are privately owned but they are not exempt from federal anti-discrimination laws, for example hiring, handicapped, etc. Surely they also have to adhere to certain business licensing standards, which likely must conform in some way as well? And what of the tax issue? I wonder can that be impacted by discriminatory practices?

Side note: We can all agree to disagree, in a civil manner.


Yes that's true, BUT...

And this is where the but comes in. The State (I think it was Utah or Colorado, I can't remember right now as my mind is mush) had an incident where the owners of a Cake Shop wouldn't cater to a gay couple because it violated their religious freedom or something like that. The State of (whatever state it was) claimed they were being discriminatory however, it was stated by the Justice Dept that they broke no civil rights laws by simply refusing to sell to someone they did not agree with. It's a fine line to be sure......

Yes it's repugnant, and yes it's really 18th century, but there are no laws on the books that state a business has to sell to everyone, they can refuse service to whomever they want for whatever reason they want.. AND in the flip side of that, groups of people are free to not go to said business and spread the word that they will not do business with whomever, and drive the business out of said business.



Any business that has more than 15 employees is subject to the EEOC.
And the government has a right to legislate it. Businesses do not have a right to discriminate. If a business advertises their services to a public at large, they do not have the right to discriminate against customers.




posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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beezzer

nixie_nox
reply to post by beezzer
 


Don't avoid my question. Where in the bible does it say that Christians cannot do business with homosexuals?


One, I didn't see your question (it must have been hidden through all the hate) and two, I don't give a damn about your question.


Where does it say that homosexuals have to hate on Christians?

I am a Christian. I don't hate homosexuals. But apparently you don't care because your hatred of Christians supercedes any other type of hatred.

Ypour bigotry of cristianity is apparent. Don't hide behind homosexuality to hate Christians.

Apparently its acceptable now.

Hang a jew.
Put a chiristian on a cross!

It's not a hate crime anymore. You're free to express your hatred.


Translation: I can't answer the question, so I will throw up a strawman to distract from the fact that I can't answer the question.

You are the one claiming that religious expression is being trampled upon. I want to know where in the bible does it say that you shall not do business with a homosexual?

you are making an extremely poor case for Christianity and for Christians.

Fact is, you are fighting for a concept that isn't even in your bible. It is nothing but an excuse to hate someone's sexual orientation.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I don't hate based on sexual orientation.

Unlike you, who simply hates based on religious preference.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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The very nature of this law is nothing but discriminatory and exclusionary. It is not about religious freedom or a business choosing to conduct business how it chooses, it is simply to discriminate against a very select portion of the population.

if this was about religious freedom, it would be about exercising religious rights such as not doing business with patrons who:
lie
call someone a fool
look at a woman
is divorced
had an affair
gets drunk
for speaking bad about somebody
and dozens of others.


But you see this law isn't about protecting those religious observances, just the gay community.

Why is that?

Well the majority of the Christian community is guilty of doing the majority of these things. There is no one about sin. If they had to choose to not do business with sinners, then they may have one customer a lifetime.

But since the majority act in these sins, they get a pass. The only one that is secular is homosexuality. Those are the specific sinners that they can judge and ostracize. Because anything else would be convicting themselves.
edit on 20-2-2014 by nixie_nox because: why do words get changed on me???



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Ahh but the EEOC only refers to hiring and keeping staff not to whom you can do business with. (hence Equal EMPLOYMENT Oppertunity)

And the Federal Courts have again and again sided with business owners on this one, not in this exact type of instance where it's based upon a religous preference, but in a broader sense that any business no matter how large has a right to deny service to anyone for any reason.. If they are stupid enough to give that reason out, that's their problem... but if you read the small print of any store you go into or any business you deal with, they all reserve the right to deny service for any reason..

Just as you have the right not to do business with them..



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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beezzer
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I don't hate based on sexual orientation.

Unlike you, who simply hates based on religious preference.


*laughs* keep trying beez. Where did I say I hate Christians?

Still not answering my question I see and avoiding. Where in the bible does it say not to do business with the gay community.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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Instead of editing my last post i'll just continue it.

There was a case a few years back some may remember some may not, it involved a HUGE corporation and the fact that they were discriminating against people with less than stellar credit by refusing in a lot of their stores to take cash for transactions. Some people got together and complained that their right to purchase the product of their choice, and therefore their civil rights under the color of the law were being infringed upon.

In the end, a Federal Appeals court upheld what two lower courts found. The business could choose who they wished to do business with and did not have to give a reason for doing so (this was only in 2003 so it's not that long ago) , However this LARGE corporation (they have many over 1500 employees) would for the sake of their customers rethink the policy (and they did) and they started to accept cash again at their retail stores, thereby no longer discriminating against people without checking accounts or credit cards that wanted to purchase their products.. The name of the corporation?

Apple Computers Inc. of Cupertino California... USA



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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nixie_nox

beezzer
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I don't hate based on sexual orientation.

Unlike you, who simply hates based on religious preference.


*laughs* keep trying beez. Where did I say I hate Christians?

Still not answering my question I see and avoiding. Where in the bible does it say not to do business with the gay community.


It's obvious.

And where did I ever say I didn't want to do business with the gay community?

You can hide behind your hatred and bigotry all you want.

But if you ever decide to become honest, then you will support gays and Christians with the same fervor.

Or are you biased?

(and bigoted?)
edit on 20-2-2014 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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**ENOUGH**

This is your one and only warning. Discuss the topic not each other, or each other's beliefs.

That means that the back and forth is done. IMMEDIATELY.

Posts have been removed, the next step will be post bans.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Haven't we both been on ATS long enough for you to know that trying to turn the table around on me not only does not work, but is a poor way of arguing an issue?

No, it is not obvious. lol. Because people who use their religion as an excuse to discriminate are not Christians.

I have a cousin who is one of the most beautiful souls on the planet, and a Christian. His efforts to help humanity would give mother Theresa a run for her money. Not only that, he has chosen a career path that saves the lives of children every day.

he does more as a Christian in a single day than most could ever hope to attain in a lifetime. He is a genuine, selfless person. Even when he was laid off and losing his home because the house was being sold, he still spent every minute campaigning for his causes. You will never hear him say a bad word and finds beauty in everything.

A mother could just meet him and would let him watch her newborn baby because his whole aura invokes trust and safety. I wish everyone could be blessed enough to have a person like him in their life.

He is the epitome, of what Jesus would want in a person.

And to think that people who claim to be Christians, would willingly discriminate against him just because of who he chooses to love, is an abomination, it is a downright deadly sin.
edit on 20-2-2014 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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I'd honestly like to see some of our more outspoken gay members on ATS support the freedom to believe how you want to believe.

Actually, I am very disappointed that there isn't the support.

But I suppose it'd be like the jews coming to support the Nazi's beliefs. I don't know.

This is what I do know.

I don't hate gay folks. I don't hate Christian folks. I don't hate Muslim folks. I don't hate Jewish folks. I don't hate smokers. I don't hate obese people. I don't hate tall people or short people or thin people. I don't hate white people black people yellow people or brown people.

As a matter of fact, spending most of my adult life in the military, my capacity to hate is near exhausted.

Right now, I'll just spend the rest of my days standing up for people.

It doesn't matter if they are gay, straight, white, black, brown, gender-neutral, American, Asian, Russian, the 1%, the 99%, . . . . . .

If they are being denied freedom, then that's where you'll find me.

Standing right next to them. Defending . . . NOT THEM, so much as defending [the right for them to be them.

[snip]
edit on 20-2-2014 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





I don't hate gay folks. I don't hate Christian folks. I don't hate Muslim folks. I don't hate Jewish folks. I don't hate smokers. I don't hate obese people. I don't hate tall people or short people or thin people. I don't hate white people black people yellow people or brown people.


But this issue isn't about you and how you feel. It's about the empowerment of people who DO hate gay folk, Muslim folk, etc, etc, and moving the social collective line in the sand backwards into ignorant territory. Because, prejudice and bigotry are borne of ignorance.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 08:36 PM
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buster2010

QueenofSpades
This is the first I've heard on this, but I've got to say that I support it.

According to its premise, it protects our Constitutional Right to be free from government influence in our decisions about religion and our very right to pursuit happiness. When government steps in to dictate what we 'must' accept, this clearly is an infringement.

For example, I am a Conservative, but I am absolutely not religious. As a conservative, I personally disagree with the unnaturalness of same-sex relationships. While I do not bring harm, taunt, or prevent gays from their liberties, Government does NOT have the (Constitutional) Right to force me to 'like it'.

So yes. Every human has the 'right' to discriminate. Discrimination does not constitute violence toward individuals. It simply means "I don't like it".



Did you overlook the little bit of everyone being equal that is in the Constitution?

From the 14th amendment Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

But you are right you don't have to like it but it is the law.


Funny, but with protected classes some are "more equal" than others.

I too believe in absolute equality...problem is the govt practices a form of protected discrimination.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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If the trend to allow discrimination against an entire group of people for no greater reason than religious belief is allowed to continue,


How soon will it be before that legalized discrimination is allowed to become the basis of physical "balkanization"?

Before we start accepting that "Certain People", because of what we believe of them, should be rounded up and "contained" so that they do not, can not, threaten our rights, our beliefs?

How long before those actions become the basis for our justification to eliminate "those people" from our midst?


How long before "those people" become "those Christians"?

I never believed those interpretations of the Book of Revelations that had Christians being rounded up and incarcerated, even executed for not more reason than that they were Christian.

Perhaps I just didn't realize that it would be the very Christians themselves who where to lay the necessary groundwork, who would clamor for the legal precedents upon which their eventual persecution would be based.



Take care, the sauce for the Goose serves the Gander just as well.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


You make an excellent point, about how businesses make it known that they have the Right to deny service.

However, as with the Ollie's Bar B Que and Heart of Atlanta v US cases, the Federal government has seen it fit to force these businesses, even though they are private, to make it unlawful for you to decide your customers.

Arizona appears to exercising the 1st Amendment; they are wanting to ensure that the slope does not to continue to get so slippery that personal freedom to do things, and NOT to do things, are not eroded.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 12:12 AM
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When is allowing discrimination Religious Freedom? Religion is a belief, and whilst you have that Freedom to believe in whatever Religion you want, it has no right to dictate laws. the Separation of Church and State comes to mind.

When is Religions freedom not allowing us Gays into their business? people talk about Gay Marriage being a "Slippery Slope" what about this?



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 01:33 AM
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I have a couple of questions
Do gay people look different then straight people?
How would a business know if you where gay?



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 08:12 AM
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Darth_Prime
When is allowing discrimination Religious Freedom? Religion is a belief, and whilst you have that Freedom to believe in whatever Religion you want, it has no right to dictate laws. the Separation of Church and State comes to mind.

When is Religions freedom not allowing us Gays into their business? people talk about Gay Marriage being a "Slippery Slope" what about this?



The question is: Should I, as a business owner (no matter how much of a jerk I am) have the right to run my business as I choose?
The question is: How far are we willing to allow the govt to exercise heavy handed methods to enforce moral or ethical standards on a free people?
The question is: Where do you draw a line between the rights of a business owner, and the rights of a customer?

This is a complex question with points on both sides.

I have a question for you, sir: How would the establishment know you were gay, unless you chose to let them know? Would you let them know in order to create a confrontation?

Normally I am against virtually any intervention by the govt into affairs that are strictly personal, but because people are people I also recognize that at times there is a need or may be a need.

In a case like this, I have a difficulty of my own regarding where to draw the line between one man's rights and another's.

In answer to your question, allowing discrimination per se is not Religious freedom. The proprietor has the right to exercise his Religious Freedom...In this case, I feel it is even broader in scope though.
Do you have the right to demand service from any privately owned business you choose? Does denying service to someone constitute his right as a business owner? Does his denying service somehow threaten the customer's rights, person or property in any way?


I would not want to be the judge who would have to make the decision here.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


I will say this, however: I find it difficult to accept a govt's ruling accusing someone else of discrimination when the govt itself practices discrimination and endorses, forces others to exercise the same discrimination.

I was raised to lead by example. If you do not want others to discriminate, then you, as a leader (the govt) should not practice discrimination.



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 08:23 AM
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windword
reply to post by beezzer
 





I don't hate gay folks. I don't hate Christian folks. I don't hate Muslim folks. I don't hate Jewish folks. I don't hate smokers. I don't hate obese people. I don't hate tall people or short people or thin people. I don't hate white people black people yellow people or brown people.


But this issue isn't about you and how you feel. It's about the empowerment of people who DO hate gay folk, Muslim folk, etc, etc, and moving the social collective line in the sand backwards into ignorant territory. Because, prejudice and bigotry are borne of ignorance.


Or is it about a business owner's rights to run his business as he chooses?

Regarding prejudice and bigotry...it is inherent in man's makeup. Name me one person who claims to be unbiased, non-prejudicial and I will name him a liar or brain dead. Prejudice and bigotry need not only apply to race, gender or sexual lifestyle.

I have heard some of the most bigoted statements come out of people's mouths who were fighting against racial bigotry. Since the remarks were not racial in nature they didn't seem to understand how hypocritical they were being.



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