Climate change = More turbulence

"Buckle Up, It's Going to Be a Bumpy FutureThe bad news is that research suggests our travel is likely to get bumpier in the coming decades. Computer models have predicted that climate change and increased carbon dioxide levels will speed up the jet stream, leading to more serious episodes by 2050."

This is an eye opener; at least for me. Global warming=cause, Climate Change=effect. They are claiming this increase in turbulence is because of climate change "global warming" so is this an admission that it is taking place? There are a lot of nay-sayers who say that it doesn't exist; even here on ATS, but our climate is changing as a result of global warming; the cause of Climate Change. Will the argument finally be over and the final nail be put in the coffin over this global warming issue now? Or will the final nail be put in the coffin once the final nail is put in the coffin?

What say you, ATS?

reply to post by lostbook


Climate Change/Global Warming IS Man Made , Only the Men doing it are U.S. Goverment Agencies and International Cabals of Sick Individuals with a " Hidden Agenda " . Don't Believe it ? Then Listen to some People who Know.....



www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by lostbook


Global Warming is a crock of hooey and we're fast building opposing cold records across multiple years, in different places to stack beside those warm records coupled to a cyclical drought, the historic record clearly shows (the early 1930's being one and 50's being another for past periods). Bad timing all around.

I'll agree entirely with climate change, indeed. Which direction..or as I'm increasingly wondering, whether it settles in EITHER direction is an open question to me. I actually HOPE we warm, to be straight. Warmth and Co2 is a self correcting error as warmth breeds plant life, plant life literally breathes Co2 as we breathe oxygen and produces oxygen in return. Part of the whole reason we have Co2 on the radar at all (and there are much worse gasses than that plant food) is that humans have been clearing and burning forest for a couple hundred years like trees are bad weeds or something, and turning lush land into desert and grassland. Neither of which make for a working balance when it's on such a LARGE scale.

The problem tho is.... Warmer we can deal with and does clean it's own oven, so to speak ....Colder we just flat out die from direct exposure too, eventually going down that scale...and so does everything else for that matter. ..Or perhaps worst for the human species? Do we just accept we're moving into a very active or overactive period for violence of storms and weather action? man made or not ....time delay is a very real thing and means if it IS heavily contributed by man, and we stopped everything 100% today? It'd still be a decade or two before real differences were seen on a global scale.

The future won't be boring, is the only certainty I think.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lostbook

 

Global Warming is a crock of hooey and we're fast building opposing cold records across multiple years, in different places to stack beside those warm records coupled to a cyclical drought, the historic record clearly shows (the early 1930's being one and 50's being another for past periods). Bad timing all around.

I'll agree entirely with climate change, indeed. Which direction..or as I'm increasingly wondering, whether it settles in EITHER direction is an open question to me. I actually HOPE we warm, to be straight. Warmth and Co2 is a self correcting error as warmth breeds plant life, plant life literally breathes Co2 as we breathe oxygen and produces oxygen in return. Part of the whole reason we have Co2 on the radar at all (and there are much worse gasses than that plant food) is that humans have been clearing and burning forest for a couple hundred years like trees are bad weeds or something, and turning lush land into desert and grassland. Neither of which make for a working balance when it's on such a LARGE scale.

The problem tho is.... Warmer we can deal with and does clean it's own oven, so to speak ....Colder we just flat out die from direct exposure too, eventually going down that scale...and so does everything else for that matter. ..Or perhaps worst for the human species? Do we just accept we're moving into a very active or overactive period for violence of storms and weather action? man made or not ....time delay is a very real thing and means if it IS heavily contributed by man, and we stopped everything 100% today? It'd still be a decade or two before real differences were seen on a global scale.

The future won't be boring, is the only certainty I think.

Global Warming IS real; it's a result of climate change as is the cooling trends you are talking about. It's getting more and more extreme on both sides of the scale. All of the debating over which is right is just in-fighting while the final nails are being put on the coffin. I like warmth too but we need the cold weather because it keeps certain viruses and diseases in check. Not to mention all of the water there will be; too much water will cause a food shortage, and leave pools of water where mosquitos can breed and multiply. I could go on and on but I won't. We're screwed!!!!!!!!

reply to post by lostbook


Indeed, I've heard the "It's cooler because it's really warmer" argument and I simply don't buy it. I know that comes as a shock to simply outright say with some folks and I've almost laughed aloud at one reaction in-person but caught myself before being rude.

The more I've started getting into the actual boring ink on paper data and raw stuff, the more I just don't buy the "consensus" some claim exists and the media glorifies as a near 100% perfect agreement in science (that's just not happening for causation theories in real science). The weather is losing it's traditional stability and predictability as well as what I swear is a winter season starting a couple weeks later as well as carrying just a bit longer with near non existent fall and shorter Springs. Seasons are getting odd...or perception is, anyway. (Of course, officially having Daylight Savings time adjusted probably doesn't help with that)

Weather getting more violent or just more remarkable, would be something I started noticing from trucking around the nation as early as the late 90's. Extremes of one side OR the other, in places not generally expected for it. That sort of thing. The regulator that keeps it all running smooth and stable is on the fritz, it seems. Not much question there. It's just sputtering in different ways, across different areas and even between the same place for different years. (Ask the American Southeast....those not still without power from the Ice storm, that is)

reply to post by lostbook


Good luck in getting China to go along...

reply to post by lostbook


How much does CO2 needs to be reduced today to get the climate back to normal?

What is considered a "safe" level?

How much CO2 is in the atmosphere now?

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lostbook

 

Indeed, I've heard the "It's cooler because it's really warmer" argument and I simply don't buy it. I know that comes as a shock to simply outright say with some folks and I've almost laughed aloud at one reaction in-person but caught myself before being rude.

here in Southern Ca it is way warmer than usual. The whole southwest is having one very mild winter.

Imho, the GEo-engineering is causing the drought to be worse. from Texas all the way to Cali, massive drought. worst ever.

On the warming, Imagine a Pendulum that swings both ways, where you have 5 year swings cooler, then 5 years hotter. But the avergae over say 30 years is creeping higher. This is how to grasp it.

OVERALL.. the funny thing is the 'warmers' stated very clearly that global warming would include harsher winters. then when it is harsh, people ridicule warming. that is so typical..

Why not use a little more visionary. There are times in history where the climate changed. are sea levels rising? warming. if receding, there would be cooling.. i think.

looking outside in the winter and ridiculing global warming is very low brow. ESPECIALLY when part of the country is having oner heck of a HOT winter.

And, possibly the crazy winter in the East is due to the ruining of the jet stream and current, some H-word effect from the gulf of mexico due to the oil spill.

I do recall back in 2009 where some scientists stated that the currents were messed up pretty bad. either from the oil or corexit. AND that the UK was going to have way worse winters as a result.. and LOOK

It should have never been called global warming. It got my hopes up. Climate change is what it should have been called in the first place. It is real, but it seems that the governments want to promote capitalism, not fix the problem. So nobody is going to fix this, we will be throwing a bunch of money at it though, to repair what is going to get destroyed. In the near future, nobody will be able to afford insurance except the rich. There will be more and more cancelled flights, leading to lot higher airfare and ultimately the collapse of the airline industry. Many people will get sick as germs blow all over the world, germs that many people will not have resistance to because they or their ancestors have never been in contact with them.

This is not going to just go away, just because people say it is not real means nothing. No matter what the cause, much money is going to be needed to replace what is ruined in the future. The governments need money to pay for disaster relief, your home insurance does not cover disasters many times. The government made arrangements with them long ago to pay a tax for such events so the insurance companies would not go bankrupt in these situations.

We can't keep poluting the air, water, and land and expect no consequences. I am convinced that CO2 is not the only cause of this but it does contribute to it. All we got to work with is what we can control. If we do nothing, in thirty years we will all be starving.

xuenchen
reply to post by lostbook

 

How much does CO2 needs to be reduced today to get the climate back to normal?

What is considered a "safe" level?

How much CO2 is in the atmosphere now?

If we took action now, we wouldn't see it back to normal for twenty five years. If we do nothing, we can expect it to start compounding. An ice age can stop this, it has done it before. The correction of the earth to this is to form an ice age.

rickymouse

xuenchen
reply to post by lostbook

 

How much does CO2 needs to be reduced today to get the climate back to normal?

What is considered a "safe" level?

How much CO2 is in the atmosphere now?

If we took action now, we wouldn't see it back to normal for twenty five years. If we do nothing, we can expect it to start compounding. An ice age can stop this, it has done it before. The correction of the earth to this is to form an ice age.

Interesting.

Where can I look at those estimations?

reply to post by rickymouse

It should have never been called global warming. It got my hopes up. Climate change is what it should have been called in the first place. It is real, but it seems that the governments want to promote capitalism, not fix the problem. So nobody is going to fix this, we will be throwing a bunch of money at it though, to repair what is going to get destroyed.

That, I agree with 100%. The fixation on 'warming' and the for-profit solutions, pre-designed many many years ago, are preventing the open look at all the factors, to see just what is causing some of what we're seeing. Some of the things to have started coming up are new, and some of the data sets coming up now are definitely new. There isn't room for anything in some circles but warming though, and we may all get to suffer together for that narrow focus.

reply to post by lostbook

I thought the climate always changed. Is that news?

This story carried on Accuweather about Great Lakes ice is interesting for this topic here....

With no end in sight, the winter of 2014 rages on, ushering in frigid Arctic air and dumping record-breaking snow and ice on much of the nation. This season, ice coverage on Lake Superior has exceeded other measurements in recent history.
"By the long shot this is the most ice we've had on Lake Superior in 20 years," Associate Professor Jay Austin of the Large Lakes Observatory in Duluth, Minn., said.

During a typical winter, 30 to 40 percent of the Great Lakes are covered by ice, according to AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Brett Anderson.

Well, I guess winter isn't quite a past tense event after all....

Usually Arctic air swept over the Great Lakes creates lake-effect snow, but modifies the air, making it warmer. This usually makes regions from Ohio through the Northeast a little warmer than it otherwise would be.

However, this winter 80 to 90 percent of the Great Lakes are covered in ice. As of Thursday, Feb. 13, 2014, Lake Superior was classified as 90 percent covered.

Source

I actually do recall some people a number of years back suggesting with a straight face that we wouldn't see any more severe winters, period. lol.... Oh how times do change, and in almost seasonal/cyclical patterns, too.

Bilk22
reply to post by lostbook

 

I thought the climate always changed. Is that news?

Only now, because the "experts" have found that only money can fix it.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lostbook

 

Indeed, I've heard the "It's cooler because it's really warmer" argument and I simply don't buy it. I know that comes as a shock to simply outright say with some folks and I've almost laughed aloud at one reaction in-person but caught myself before being rude.

I have heard two theories on what is causing this;

As the poles are melting they are sending cold air blasts toward the equator that is freezing everything in it's path

and

The jetstream is breaking up. I've heard it theorised that modern air travel is part of the problem - the planes are literally slashing it up and causing all sorts of strife.

After a horrific month with daily temperatures soaring into above 40 deg celscius, topping 48 degrees on the worst day, followed immediately by a tropical low pressure system dumping 60mm of rain in one day, I defy anyone to tell me that something isn't up with the world's weather systems.

*edit* To back up my claims, here is a simple wikipedia link on my cities climate. I was here for the 2008,9 and 13/14 heat waves. These things are becoming more common and more vicious. Note that the official temperatures recorded are not the real truth a they are recorded in areas away from radiant heat. Driving down bitumen roads this year, I saw temperatures of 48 on local signboards and the monitor in my car.

Climate of Adelaide

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


you forgot China

reply to post by markosity1973


Something is very much up. Ultimately, and for the mechanics of what is actually doing this to the weather? I think we look to the weather engines. The Oceans...and what is impacting them? Well, the ice melt for pouring more fresh water into the mix but also a change in currents and behavior in the mid ocean gyres. Thats more disturbing than it first sounds but the ocean patterns basically define hot in one spot and freeeeeezing in another, and then how it can be at the same time, in different spots.

It's amazing, looking into some of it...just how little it can take at some critical points, to alter the overall system enough. Say pollution of millions of square miles of ocean, down the first 3 feet or so of water column with fine plastic particulate broken down as far as it will go, for longer than we need worry about calculating. You think all that plastic spread evenly throughout those first few feet might impact behavior and how the ocean interacts with weather patterns passing above? The problem exists in 5 distinct areas in oceans around the world. Disturbing there too, for how evenly spread in disrupting weather patterns 'downwind' and covering most of the world in that sense.

There are obvious and actual tangible things we can look at and see to explain some of this....but media won't say it and Government must be well aware but quite happy if we aren't. Solutions may not exist or be prohibitive for a whole lot of reasons to their thinking.

There is global warming, but the place to look for it is not in the air, it's in the water, specifically the oceans where a tiny but measurable increase is evident.

The oceans are key in that they are what drives the weather (and the Jet Stream) over the land and causes Climate Change

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Actually, you are dead right. I had totally forgotten about the north atlantic current. Al Gore warns about it in an inconvenient truth if i remember correctly. Basically if it breaks down, you are looking at a mini ice age in the northern hemisphere.

I also remember reading that after that terrible oil spill that bp caused there was huge concern that was pretty much hushed up by the media that the current had indeed faltered to a near standstill.


Actually, here is a thread from 2010 on the north atlantic current stopping here