National School Safety Expert: Sandy Hook shooting was a fraud

jaws1975
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I didn't use the general term guns, I said assault rifles. I just find it interesting that those are the two threads you decided to author after not having made one in 6 months.

exactlym you went back and picked at tge only two threads you could find in my history that might be able to be construed as negative on guns in any way (which they were not, at all).

So what's you're point? Are you attempting to discredit me by taking two out of over 10000 posts and misconstruing the context?

That's desperation, friend.

reply to post by Sremmos80

The only "proof" you have is the info that only one person knows is true. I understand it is the site owner but that is just a call to authority with out proof. You don't have to provide it for me if you don't want but don't state I am just ignoring "facts". Outside of that you are just quoting what you have been told. You have no evidence either since all of it is redacted. If there was some transparency then the conspiracy would have no ground to stand. If there is a conspiracy to hide/destroy evidence as has been displayed in this case then I have a hard time to believe there was not a conspiracy in the event.

Simply untrue. In fact, an outright lie.

As I said, forget about my family there. They are inconsequential to the proof. The proof has been verified 10000 times over. That you refuse to verify it yourself doesnt make it any less true. The people there exist. The people there were murdered. It happened.

You are, indeed, ignoring the facts.

In the end, its fine. Believe in a conspiracy. But until you back it up with SOMETHING....ANYTHING....dont expect rational people to take you at your word.

As ive said all along, if you can provide any evidence to your claims (you know, burden of proof), Ill gladly look at them. But Im done with this ring around the rosy act.

KAOStheory
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

i just want to say, how do you think calling those who fear that these innocent children may have been the victims of a conspiracy "fetishists" because we want to see video OF THE ALLEGED ENTERING THE PREMISES -
show me one person who wants to see dead children, I'll help you promote them as a fetishist. Until then, save your BS labels for those who deserve them, please and thanks.

Good lord I'd LOVE to think people like you are the reason this thread is in LOL. Sad that it's not and sad that the "TPTB" allow you to continue to attack those who only seek to "deny ignorance".

I haven't seen ANYONE on here insult the situation worse than those who say "there's nothin to see here move on". Disgusting.
If one of these were MY kid, there would be some SERIOUS 'splainin to do, Lucy.

I dont call anyone who fears that they were victims of a conspiracy fetishists. I call those that claim it as fact and ignore the very real things that happened that day fetishists. Those that have some NEED to accuse innocent people, to make outrageous claims, and refuse to do any actual investigating to back it up.


Im actually quite open to the idea that more happened that day than we know. In fact, Id say its a likely possibility.

I simply refuse to ignore the things that have been PROVEN fact in order to support empty theories.

I have spent more time on this topic than I care to admit. More time than I should. Ive talked to people from the town. Ive done some digging. And I have seen nothing that would amount to 'evidence' of a conspiracy. That doesnt mean there isnt one there, it just means that I have seen enough to know that these 1000's of baseless claims do more to help hide the truth than expose it.

I never once claimed I was the reason these end up in LOL. I certainly am not. I sent my evidence up the chain. Others have as well. And in the end, it really just came down exactly what I am saying-they tired of fantastical claims and gross accusations that lacked any proof.
It wasnt me that got these threads put in the LOL bin. IT WAS ALL OF YOU.

Let that sink in for a moment.

And with that, I think Ill do what I tried to do in the first place, and leave this thread. Its going down the exact path that all the rest do-attack anyone who contradicts your baseless theories.

If anyone wants to actually discuss the topic, Im down. But im done participating in the sniping match.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Actually I was looking for any posts you made made claiming to have family in Newtown, and found none. Desperation, not at all, I'm just looking for someone on the other side to make an articulate arguement. So far in this thread I have heard that the teachers cleaned up the blood, I have family in Newtown and they all think it happened, and the new security system doesn't record.

If this is the best that the other side has that's not saying much.

jaws1975
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Actually I was looking for any posts you made made claiming to have family in Newtown, and found none. Desperation, not at all, I'm just looking for someone on the other side to make an articulate arguement. So far in this thread I have heard that the teachers cleaned up the blood, I have family in Newtown and they all think it happened, and the new security system doesn't record.

If this is the best that the other side has that's not saying much.

There are plenty there. Well, maybe not, as most SH threads have been removed. But they are there somewhere.

So let me get this straight....the side with actual, tangible evidence (such as the FACT that people lost family members that day) doesnt have much, but the side that has literally not one shred of evidence is on the right path?

Again, THIS is what is wrong with you guys, and its why I use the term "fetish" to describe some of you. Its not about truth. Its about some insatiable NEED to find a conspiracy that you can put your name behind. Youll ignore the verifiable evidence as nonexistant while clinging to "theories" that have no evidence.

Its straight up bass-ackward.

but any swat team member knows how to identify a dead person from a living one.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Perhaps...however in the eyes of the law, only a coroner or paramedic specifically trained to do so, can pronounce someone dead. In absence of someone qualified to pronounce victims deceased...you are to treat all casualties as critically injured. The ONLY exception is decapitation. Many have requested the identity of the person who did this, however that information is not available. As with the rest of this case....the secrecy only further serves to breed conspiracy theories.....and in the end makes it virtually impossible to ever get to the truth of exactly what happened.

Dead is dead, at the school or the hospital. Had they removed the already deceased before the scene was preserved,

Dead is not dead unless the conditions I mentioned above were met. Unless they were pronounced dead by someone qualified to do so, you are to treat the victim as living and continue first aid/ triage, as required by LAW. Which means that whether you think they are deceased or not, you get the victim to medical attention immediatley after the area is secure. Given that Sandy Hook was a small school, and given the massive number of law enforcement officers present, the securing of the school should have been priority number one so that casualties could be removed. Remember....they are all still technically casualties until pronounced dead by a coroner or specially trained paramedic, as required by Conneticut State Law.

reply to post by deadcalm

Perhaps...however in the eyes of the law, only a coroner or paramedic specifically trained to do so, can pronounce someone dead.

This is absolutely true, and doesnt change what I said one bit. The official pronouncement is very often delayed. That doesnt make the person any less dead in the meantime.

In absence of someone qualified to pronounce victims deceased...you are to treat all casualties as critically injured.

Is there any evidence that they didnt? And tell me, then, why bodies are not to be disturbed when part of a crime scene, which is the case every single time...

. The ONLY exception is decapitation. Many have requested the identity of the person who did this, however that information is not available. As with the rest of this case

Im confused as to what you are saying...the identity of the person who did what?

....the secrecy only further serves to breed conspiracy theories.....and in the end makes it virtually impossible to ever get to the truth of exactly what happened.

We will NEVER have the truth of exactly what happened, right or wrong. And as the general public, we are simply not entitled to some of the info, again, right or wrong.

Dead is not dead unless the conditions I mentioned above were met. Unless they were pronounced dead by someone qualified to do so, you are to treat the victim as living and continue first aid/ triage, as required by LAW.

Id like to see the specifics of that law. And active shooter scenario is not a standard law enforcement response. As I understand it, they have VERY different guidelines.

. Which means that whether you think they are deceased or not, you get the victim to medical attention immediatley after the area is secure

And there is the kicker, the one I have pointed out multiple times now, that falls on deaf ears time and time again: THE SCENE WAS NOT SECURE. Medical personnel DO NOT enter a premises until it is secure. Think about it. You all are claiming that the swat team did something wrong by not allowing the medical team in, yet, you all fully admit that medical personnel dont enter until the scene is secure.

Are things adding up yet?

. Given that Sandy Hook was a small school, and given the massive number of law enforcement officers present, the securing of the school should have been priority number one so that casualties could be removed

It doesnt matter how small a school is, they are not easy buildings to clear. SO MANY places to hide, as evidenced by the nurse that they found 4 hours later.

On top of that, once again, casualties at a crime scene are not removed until the scene has been documented and preserved (which is what includes the medical personnel and administering any lifesaving techniques), so, once again, that couldnt happen immediately like you guys keep claiming.

Still, all you guys have is "i dont agree with the way they did things so it must be a conspiracy".

reply to post by captaintyinknots


No it is not, you have absolutely no access that 100% PROVES that adam lanza walked up to that building and did what they say he did. None what so ever
All you can do is take what is being spoon fed to you and you can either believe for what they say, because there is NO WAY you can check it. Or have questions until that point like the rest of us
There has never been a case like this one where they lock all the public records, destroy the school and the FEDS take the case and lock it in their vault.
You don't have anything. How about you show use your iron clad defense as to it was adam lanza
Don't try using the official reports released. Black sharpie doesn't prove anything

reply to post by NickDC202


He has said the SO has verifed his claim but good luck getting that checked out, SO kinda ignores everything related to this topic I guess. Which is fair, but kinda makes it hard to verify what that poster is saying

reply to post by Sremmos80

No it is not, you have absolutely no access that 100% PROVES that adam lanza walked up to that building and did what they say he did. None what so ever

100% definitive proof? No, i dont. But ALL of the evidence suggests that to be the case, and in all of the fetishizing, no one has provided a single thing to prove otherwise. Not. One. Thing.

All you can do is take what is being spoon fed to you and you can either believe for what they say, because there is NO WAY you can check it.

An outright lie. The evidence is verifiable. You just refuse to do it.

There has never been a case like this one where they lock all the public records, destroy the school and the FEDS take the case and lock it in their vault.

You could have stopped at "There has never been a case like this one". The rest of the sentence is inconsequential.

You don't have anything. How about you show use your iron clad defense as to it was adam lanza

Ive told you where the evidence is. You choose to ignore it. It would get in the way of your fetish.

You're still going, trying to attack me instead of the topic. I wonder why it is that all of you people take to this tactic as opposed to providing even the slightest shred of evidence to back your claims....

Sremmos80
reply to post by NickDC202

 

He has said the SO has verifed his claim but good luck getting that checked out, SO kinda ignores everything related to this topic I guess. Which is fair, but kinda makes it hard to verify what that poster is saying

You guys are still missing it....whether you can verify that my family members are there or not doesnt matter. You can ABSOLUTELY verify ever claim ive made.

you just choose not to.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

100% definitive proof? No, i dont.

Then stop saying you do.....

But ALL of the evidence suggests that to be the case, and in all of the fetishizing, no one has provided a single thing to prove otherwise. Not. One. Thing.

What evidence? The ones you can't see? How can you tell what it points to if you haven't seen it? That is the point.

An outright lie. The evidence is verifiable. You just refuse to do it.

Oh ok I'll write the FBI so they can give me the evidence they redacted from the reports?

You could have stopped at "There has never been a case like this one". The rest of the sentence is inconsequential.

No the rest of the sentence showed what was never done before, for no reason

Ive told you where the evidence is. You choose to ignore it. It would get in the way of your fetish.

No you have not, all you have is personal anecdotes that is not evidence until proven that we need to take that as such

I am not attacking you, i have yet to use a derogetory term at you, I lost count of yours.
You are using your self as evidence so yes I will attack that, not my fault you are trying to just say things are facts

Jesus could fly a jet
The holygrail is in Mt. Rushmore
Hilter lives in germany
My dad was on the grassy knoll


The above statements have all been vetted btw, I can't tell you or show you how, but take my word for it

And there is the kicker, the one I have pointed out multiple times now, that falls on deaf ears time and time again: THE SCENE WAS NOT SECURE. Medical personnel DO NOT enter a premises until it is secure. Think about it. You all are claiming that the swat team did something wrong by not allowing the medical team in, yet, you all fully admit that medical personnel dont enter until the scene is secure.

BOLOGNA!
The scene was secured when they sent the two kids to the hospital, how do you figure they got the attention they needed? By trained EMS that was on scene.
So AGAIN, WHO decided the other 18 kids were beyond the chance of saving?!!! How did the 1 or 2 ambulances that they had on scene get to all the kids efficiently and decide that ONLY 2 had a chance at surviving?

We will NEVER have the truth of exactly what happened, right or wrong. And as the general public, we are simply not entitled to some of the info, again, right or wrong.

And when has a school shooting ever been that way? Why are they blocking things from going to public record like the law dictates?
We do have a right to know, that is why they force things to go to public record. It is so the public can make sure things are being done in the public interest and not sneaky stuff behind the scenes.
Until they release the public info that they blocked with new laws tailored to this event... some even coming BEFORE the event.
The law the ME threw a tantrum about and resigned rings a bell.
Why lock the records the public DOES have the right to see?

reply to post by Sremmos80

Then stop saying you do.....

Ive never once said I have 100% definitive proof that we know exactly what happened that day. In fact, Ive said the opposite. Your attempts at reductio ad absurdum are not going to work.

What evidence? The ones you can't see? How can you tell what it points to if you haven't seen it? That is the point.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? it really shouldnt be. There is MOUNDS of evidence in that town. Go there. Confirm it for yourself. No one is stopping you. You simply refuse to do it.

Heck, start by doing some basic internet research.

Oh ok I'll write the FBI so they can give me the evidence they redacted from the reports?

You dont need to do that. Just go talk to some parents who lost kids. Some first responders at the scene. Again, this whole reductio ad absurdum thing is weak...

What you are really saying is "if i dont get every last bit of info about that day handed to me, Im calling conspiracy.". The world doesnt work that way. You are not entitled to every piece of info, and on top of that, lack of evidence does not automatically equal conspiracy.

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

No the rest of the sentence showed what was never done before, for no reason

The entire event has never happened before. Therefore, to say the response has never happened before is moot.

Seriously, why is all of this going over your head?

No you have not, all you have is personal anecdotes that is not evidence until proven that we need to take that as such

You can keep saying that all you want. Doesnt change the fact that you are free to go check it out yourself.

I am not attacking you, i have yet to use a derogetory term at you, I lost count of yours.

Bull. You are not even TRYING to present information on the topic. You are only focused on discrediting me.

You are using your self as evidence so yes I will attack that, not my fault you are trying to just say things are facts

No, im not (this seems to be yet another thing that is going right over your head...its getting kind of sad). I said, multiple times, to take me and my family members out of the equation. You can still go to that town and verify everything I have said.

Again, you simply refuse to.

Jesus could fly a jet The holygrail is in Mt. Rushmore Hilter lives in germany My dad was on the grassy knoll The above statements have all been vetted btw, I can't tell you or show you how, but take my word for it

More silly reductio ad absurdum. Usually the sign of someone clinging to desperation.

Can you tell me where the evidence of each of those things is available to be verified by the public? If not, youve been proven foolish, once again....

reply to post by Sremmos80

The scene was secured when they sent the two kids to the hospital, how do you figure they got the attention they needed? By trained EMS that was on scene. So AGAIN, WHO decided the other 18 kids were beyond the chance of saving?!!! How did the 1 or 2 ambulances that they had on scene get to all the kids efficiently and decide that ONLY 2 had a chance at surviving?

False. The kids that went to the hospital were removed before the building is secure. Have you dont ANY research on this subject?

And when has a school shooting ever been that way? Why are they blocking things from going to public record like the law dictates?

Youre really trying to claim that every single detail of every school shooting has been made public? Good lord.....

We do have a right to know, that is why they force things to go to public record.

You dont. Right or wrong, you do not have any right to know every detail.

so the public can make sure things are being done in the public interest and not sneaky stuff behind the scenes.

ok? That still doesnt mean every last detail is public information. In fact, in more cases, it must be specifically requested. Have you submitted any requests for info? Doubt it.

Until they release the public info that they blocked with new laws tailored to this event... some even coming BEFORE the event.

What laws? What laws have passed since SH that directly relate to it?

The law the ME threw a tantrum about and resigned rings a bell.

So let me get this straight...its is your claim (without evidence to back it, mind you), that the gov't pulled this meticulously designed coverup, got an entire town to be in on it, managed to squash every single bit of evidence of a conspiracy, but was too inept to actually use it for what it was intended?

And thats easier to believe than the idea that a mentally unstable teenager lost his S&^T and killed a bunch of kids (with evidence, no less)?

Ugh.

For the last time, do you have even ONE SINGLE piece of evidence to back up your claims?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

False. The kids that went to the hospital were removed before the building is secure. Have you dont ANY research on this subject?

Well according to the next day statement by the PD, they said it was secured when they were transferred so I guess they are lying
www.chathousenews.com...

Teams encountered several students and staff suffering from gunshot wounds. The building w

So let me get this straight...its is your claim (without evidence to back it, mind you), that the gov't pulled this meticulously designed coverup, got an entire town to be in on it, managed to squash every single bit of evidence of a conspiracy, but was too inept to actually use it for what it was intended?

And thats easier to believe than the idea that a mentally unstable teenager lost his S&^T and killed a bunch of kids (with evidence, no less)?

as secured, the ”shooter” was located deceased, and Newtown EMS personnel entered to provide emergency care for the wounded. Eighteen (18) children were pronounced dead at the scene, two children were transported to Danbury Hospital and later pronounced dead. Six (6) adult victims were also pronounced dead at the scene. Teams located the shooter on scene; he was also pronounced dead. The perimeter was also searched and secured by responding law enforcement.

Scene was SECURE

What laws? What laws have passed since SH that directly relate to it?

Well the most prevelant was the one where the ME does not need to disclose any info when it comes to pediatric deaths, he can literally make up anything he wants as the cause of death and the record can not be checked. Unheard of, this is the law that they were not going to pass and he had to threaten to resign to get it passed.... Strange

So let me get this straight...its is your claim (without evidence to back it, mind you), that the gov't pulled this meticulously designed coverup, got an entire town to be in on it, managed to squash every single bit of evidence of a conspiracy, but was too inept to actually use it for what it was intended?

And thats easier to believe than the idea that a mentally unstable teenager lost his S&^T and killed a bunch of kids (with evidence, no less)?

What evidence do you have that he was mentally unstable? What evidence do you have that it was adam that snapped and then walked in with weapons they can not get straight and did what he did?
Again, you have no physical prove to say it happened the way we are being told it did, until that happens there will be people asking questions because the answers are just not there

For the last time, do you have even ONE SINGLE piece of evidence to back up your claims?

You show me your HARD evidence and I will show you mine

Going to the town is not a viable option, people have already been warned to NOT do what you CONTINUE to say. Did you read that article where the couple did what you are saying to do?
They got stonewalled, no one will talk

So outside of going to the town what do you have?

reply to post by Sremmos80

Well according to the next day statement by the PD, they said it was secured when they were transferred so I guess they are lying www.chathousenews.com...

They arent lying, you are, by presenting that as though it is a timeline of events. From your very own source:

Upon arrival, teams of Troopers and Officers formed “Active Shooter Teams” and immediately entered the school. Teams performed rescues of students and staff, removing them to a safe location as they searched for the shooting suspect within the building. The building was evacuated and students walked hand in hand out to a safe location.

Teams encountered several students and staff suffering from gunshot wounds.

A little piece of advice...if you are going to site a source, at least take the time to read the whole thing, and dont just cherry pick what you think backs you up.

Scene was SECURE

Yes it was. Not one thing in that source says that wounded living were left inside the building until it was secure.

To use your term: FAIL.

Well the most prevelant was the one where the ME does not need to disclose any info when it comes to pediatric deaths, he can literally make up anything he wants as the cause of death and the record can not be checked. Unheard of, this is the law that they were not going to pass and he had to threaten to resign to get it passed.... Strange

How exactly do you link this with SH?

What evidence do you have that he was mentally unstable?

Youre kidding me, right?

According to the police files, King said that Adam Lanza "displayed a profound autism spectrum disorder with rigidity, isolation and a lack of comprehension of ordinary social interaction and communications." Lanza was also diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder.

King told police, "My concern was that the shooter's social isolation and withdrawal was increasing."

Koenig said that Lanza's obsessive compulsive disorder "severely limited his ability to lead a normal, well-adjusted life." She described him as "emotionally paralyzed" and said that he would participate in multiple daily rituals like repeated hand washing and showering and obsessively changing the blue polo shirts and khaki pants that he wore exclusively — behavior that forced Nancy Lanza to do up to three loads of laundry a day.

articles.courant.com...

Seriously. Please at least do some basic research.

What evidence do you have that it was adam that snapped and then walked in with weapons they can not get straight and did what he did?

His dead body with a self inflicted gunshot would at the scene is a very good start. Certainly far more than those who claim it wasnt him have (not that you guys deal in facts anyway)

You show me your HARD evidence and I will show you mine

Ive given it to you and told you where to confirm it. A couple dozen posts later, and you are still deflecting and avoiding providing anything. Why is that? Is it because you have none? Quite frankly, the fact that you are spending this much effort to avoid providing any says really all that needs to be said.

Sremmos80
Going to the town is not a viable option, people have already been warned to NOT do what you CONTINUE to say. Did you read that article where the couple did what you are saying to do?
They got stonewalled, no one will talk

So outside of going to the town what do you have?

Bull. You are free to do as you want. You may not like the way you are treated, but you are free to do it. That you refuse out of fear or whatever else doesnt change a thing.

While you attempt to pick and choose what evidence you will accept, I will continue to wait (though not with crossed fingers) for you to provide ANYTHING that corroborates your claims.

ANYTHING. Seriously. Anything.

why bodies are not to be disturbed when part of a crime scene, which is the case every single time...

reply to post by captaintyinknots


As I stated...these aren't "bodies" until pronounced dead by someone qualified to do so....in absence of that they are to be treated as wounded and every effort made to preserve life. This is also standard training in every First Aid course (I have been certified for over 20 years, required by my profession).....you are not to stop treating the individual until medical professionals arrive to transport them to the hospital. Any pronouncement of death can only be made at the hospital under the supervision of a qualified MD/ Coroner.

That means that those children....all of them should have been removed to a hospital as soon as the building was secured....yet other than the two kids transported to the hospital by police (how did that happen with an unsecured crime scene?), all others weren't moved until the middle of the night.

Im confused as to what you are saying...the identity of the person who did what?

The qualified person that declared them deceased, which allowed them to be left in place. Who was it? When was that done? Can't tell you because the police won't say. Again...secrecy only serves to breed mis-trust. Were they covering themselves to a potential mountain of lawsuits? Perhaps.

And as the general public, we are simply not entitled to some of the info, again, right or wrong.

This is patently false. It is standard procedure to release all investigative material to the public at the conclusion of a police investigation. At that point it becomes part of the "PUBLIC RECORD". In this case, specific laws were enacted by the state to seal these records. If you have nothing to hide....why? I can understand redacting the pictures of the dead children....but the adults...no.

AGAIN, I want to make it CLEAR AS DAY...there is absolutely NO NEED to see pictures of dead children....however there should be no problem with releasing photos of Adam Lanza, his mother's crime scene...ect. Why have these been redacted? These are not minors....they are adults. No stills of the shooter from the newly upgraded security system....no video.

As I understand it, they have VERY different guidelines.

Though procedures surely vary in some small way...the PRESERVATION OF HUMAN LIFE is ALWAYS a top priority. Especially when you are dealing with small children.

And there is the kicker, the one I have pointed out multiple times now, that falls on deaf ears time and time again: THE SCENE WAS NOT SECURE.

So how long did it take them to secure the school? I would think that with the number of SWAT and Police present that this could have been done very quickly. The shooter was dead. The subject seen fleeing into the woods was in police custody. Sandy Hook wasn't a large mulit-level school. Certainly within an hour....a secure perimeter should have been set up around the school and the casualties should have been evacuated. Yet that did not happen. Why? Given the serious nature of the incident, wouldn't a thorough, organized sweep of the building have been a top priority as quickly as possible?

My point being.....as SOON as the building was secured...all those children should have been removed and rushed to hospital. Surely you re not saying that it took them until the wee hours of the following morning, when the vitims were finally removed to secure the building?

Id like to see the specifics of that law

Then by all means...look it up. This is why paramedics must continue giving life saving measures, even though they know the victim is deceased, until they arrive at the hospital where a qualified individual (doctor), officially declares them dead. Most paramedics are not allowed to declare someone dead...they simply do not have the depth of training required. Hence, "he/she was declared dead upon arrival at the hospital". Doesn't matter if it's a gunshot or a heart attack.