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National School Safety Expert: Sandy Hook shooting was a fraud

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posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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captaintyinknots
reply to post by Sremmos80
 


1) no, you are refusing the FACT (which has been vetted) that I have family there. You are refusing the FACT that families lost kids and loved ones that day.

2)why do you think these topics end up in the LOL section? Because these FACTS have been vetted by the site admins.

3)if you think its a fraud, the only explanation is that everyone was in on it. What's better is that you'd have us believe that this was some fraud....to serve what purpose exactly?

4)so you refuse to verify the facts by talking to the people, but you also refuse to take them as fact because you havent heard it from these people? Thats some circular logic there.

5)so your biggest sticking point is that the reaponders followed active shooter protocol by parking far enough away that the respnders couldn't be made targets of? In the end, this is the problem. Uninformed people thinking that something isn't right, even though it follows exact protocol.

But I digress. Like I sais to begin with, this is pointless. You fetishists are not intereated in fact or truth.

edit on 24-2-2014 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)


1) Those are not FACTS, unless you prove to me with names, which if you noticed I have not asked you to do, then I will not be able to take what you say as FACT.
Until then it it just something you typed on a screen. I am refusing you as the source, so I am sorry that i can not take it as a fact as I have no source.
2) I am not going to get into site policy regarding the post as I am not pirvy to it as outlined by the mods
3)IF you read all my post you would see I said it was a drill gone live, where does the whole town fit into that? Not my fault you are assuming what I said without actually reading what I said
4) You are not the "people", I said if I was able to go I would, not that if I went I would not believe anything they say. The only person I said that about is you, multiple times
5) No my biggest complaint is after that all the cop cars had the fire trucks and EMTs blocked so even if after the scene was secure, THEY COULD NOT MOVE. The scene was secure, or kinda the nurse was hiding for 4 hours and the search teams who should have been looking everywhere for a second shooter did not find her. How do you suppose that happens? How is that not massive negligence? For all they knew a second shooter was hiding some where and they missed it for FOUR HOURS! And what about the helicopters? Is it not possible that a child was still alive after all that? Did you see ANY attempt to administer life saving techniques to any one? Who pronounced every beyond the point of rescue? Was it the swat teams and cops? Since when can they make that decision. Why not release who made that call, as that call might have cause an alive child to perish IMO.
There was negligence and not a single word has been mentioned of it.
In all your time in the town you have never heard one person complain about the lack of medical response?
Firetrucks that usually go an pick up the DOA were blocked in, not one child or adult that was killed was sent out of that building to a hospital, it was 12 miles away.
I can not over look that as gross negligence because I refuse to believe that all of the victims were too far gone and did not have a chance of getting saved.
Since when are doctors ok with not getting a chance at saving a life?


edit on thMon, 24 Feb 2014 15:11:27 -0600America/Chicago220142780 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

edit on thMon, 24 Feb 2014 15:23:59 -0600America/Chicago220145980 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 





1) Those are not FACTS, unless you prove to me with names, which if you noticed I have not asked you to do, then I will not be able to take what you say as FACT. Until then it it just something you typed on a screen. I am refusing you as the source, not the fact its self.
They are facts. You are simply refusing to accept them. Theyve been vetted.




2) I am not going to get into site policy regarding the post as I am not pirvy to it as outlined by the mods
And thats fine, but it still simply means you are ignorant of, or are ignoring, facts.




3)IF you read all my post you would see I said it was a drill gone live, where does the whole town fit into that? Not my fault you are assuming what I said without actually reading what I said
A drill gone live....yet there was no drill happening at SH that day. The whole town fits in in that not one person in that town has corroborated the idea that there was a drill at SH that day. So either they are ALL lying, or your assertion is wrong.




4) You are not the "people", I said if I was able to go I would, not that if I went I would not believe anything they say. The only person I said that about is you, multiple times
I am one of the people. There are plenty of others (some even on this site). Yet, in your mind, NONE of them are telling the truth. Much, much easier to believe a baseless conspiracy theory.




5) No my biggest complaint is after that all the cop cars had the fire trucks and EMTs blocked so even if after the scene was secure, THEY COULD NOT MOVE.
And why were they blocked? So there wasnt a mad rush of parents on the school. Again, your ignorance of SOP does not = conspiracy.




. The scene was secure, or kinda
Thats an oxymoron, and yet another example of your ignorance of SOP.




the nurse was hiding for 4 hours and the search teams who should have been looking everywhere for a second shooter did not find her.
And?




How do you suppose that happens
Chaos. Things get missed amid chaos.




How is that not massive negligence?
Explain how it is.




For all they knew a second shooter was hiding some where and they missed it for FOUR HOURS!
? Ok? Your point? Search teams miss things. It does happen.




! And what about the helicopters? Is it not possible that a child was still alive after all that?
So your evidence is that you think you know an area that you have never been to well enough to know which mode of transport is fastest in the area? Did you know that Helos can generally only carry 1-2 victims, while mass casualty vehicles can carry 10x that many?




Did you see ANY attempt to administer life saving techniques to any one?
Youre kidding, right? Have you seen what an AR does to a head? Can you imagine what 3 or 4 rounds from one would do to a child?

On top of that, are you claiming that no life saving techniques were administered inside the school? I mean come on now, This is what I am talking about. Grasping at straws to fulfill your fetish.




Who pronounced every beyond the point of rescue?
No one, as multiple kids were taken to the hospital.




Was it the swat teams and cops? Since when can they make that decision. Why not release who made that call, as that call might have cause an alive child to perish IMO.
So you werent there, but you assert that they let kids die rather than try and help them? You, sir, are truly disgusting. Watch some of the interviews with the first responders. Then try and look at yourself in the mirror and still say these things.




There was negligence and not a single word has been mentioned of it.
Where? You have shown proof of none.




In all your time in the town you have never heard one person complain about the lack of medical response?
All my time in the town? Thats a strange thing to say.

And no, i havent, because the people who went through this understand what happened. They also know that some of the kids WERE alive, and were treated.

Got a single fact to present? Or is it all "i dont know what happened so it MUST be a conspiracy!"


(post by GalaxyEyes removed for a manners violation)

posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 





They are facts. You are simply refusing to accept them. Theyve been vetted.

You can keep saying that, you might scratch the already broken record though.
I will not accept your typing on a screen as fact, i am sorry




A drill gone live....yet there was no drill happening at SH that day. The whole town fits in in that not one person in that town has corroborated the idea that there was a drill at SH that day. So either they are ALL lying, or your assertion is wrong.

There as a fema drill going on though
www.ct.gov...
www.dailypaul.com...
See those are called sources, now you can go do your own fact checking to what i have said, not just take my word for it





I am one of the people. There are plenty of others (some even on this site). Yet, in your mind, NONE of them are telling the truth. Much, much easier to believe a baseless conspiracy theory.

No, I am only saying it about you currently.




And why were they blocked? So there wasnt a mad rush of parents on the school. Again, your ignorance of SOP does not = conspiracy.


So block the firetrucks from leaving the station so parents don't rush the school? Block the EMTS so parents don't rush the school? It was a one way street, make one block for parents further away then the staging area of the firefighters and emt getting ready to bum rush the school to save as many lives as they can. Is that SOP, just block every one? Any chance you can link that SOP?




Thats an oxymoron, and yet another example of your ignorance of SOP.

LOL, you use the first part of a sentence and not the rest and they have balls to call it an oxymoron. Quote the whole senctence so it can't be taken out of context.

the nurse was hiding for 4 hours and the search teams who should have been looking everywhere for a second shooter did not find her.



and

WOW... You can't stop calling in SOP but you fail to see the massive failure in this? There was possibly a second shooter hiden away for four hours and all you can come up with is and?



Chaos. Things get missed amid chaos.


So either poor training or no effort. Chaos is not an excuse for a cop looking for a possible second shooter in a mass killing.
Where is chaos in SOP?




Explain how it is.


They had no idea it was just one shooter but yet they clear the building looking for a second and miss an adult female hiding in a cabinet...
They are on a mission to secure the scene so medical can get in there and they did not do that.



Ok? Your point? Search teams miss things. It does happen.

Why are they missing things? Why are you OK with them just doing a so so job and missing an adult female that very well could have been an accomplice to what just happened.
Can you think of a logical way they missed her after doing an entire sweep of the building more then once?
Outside of "chaos" as the scene was not chaotic at that point, just tragic




So your evidence is that you think you know an area that you have never been to well enough to know which mode of transport is fastest in the area? Did you know that Helos can generally only carry 1-2 victims, while mass casualty vehicles can carry 10x that many?


Ok where was the mass casualty vehicle then? Was it behind the blockade?




Youre kidding, right? Have you seen what an AR does to a head? Can you imagine what 3 or 4 rounds from one would do to a child?

ME said no head shots their chief.




On top of that, are you claiming that no life saving techniques were administered inside the school? I mean come on now, This is what I am talking about. Grasping at straws to fulfill your fetish.

That doesn't answer the question, what prove do you have any attempt was made to save one of the victims life's?



No one, as multiple kids were taken to the hospital.

Would be very easily sourced, care to amaze me?



So you weren't there, but you assert that they let kids die rather than try and help them? You, sir, are truly disgusting. Watch some of the interviews with the first responders. Then try and look at yourself in the mirror and still say these things.

I assert that they did not have all hands on deck at the scene. That is proven, EMT testimony of them just waiting for the word to go in and were shocked when they never got the go ahead.
Yes I am saying there was gross negligence and it could have lead to a child that was alive passing.
Who went around and check each body for a pulse? There was 26 victims your telling me not one had a faint pulse? Again who declared all the victims inside dead? Why won't that be released




All my time in the town? Thats a strange thing to say.

And no, i havent, because the people who went through this understand what happened. They also know that some of the kids WERE alive, and were treated.

Got a single fact to present? Or is it all "i dont know what happened so it MUST be a conspiracy!"

You are the one that keeps saying that I need to go there and talk to them like you have since you have family there.
All your time does not have to me a lot of time, just all of the time you have spent there.
Two was injured by official report. One was an adult. What alive kids were taken to the hospital?

Oh and I have provided the same type of "facts" as you have, well above I actually put 2 websites in, more then you have.
We both can type away, but with out sources your right no facts.
I have questions that I want answers too because the facts I want are under lock and key under special laws to not release public info.
This case is withholding massive public records that would have been released if not for special laws pertaining to CT and this case inparticular.
And when I see a conspiracy to hide evidence I see a conspiracy in the event

edit on thMon, 24 Feb 2014 16:00:31 -0600America/Chicago220143180 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 


1) I know you don't accepts the facts. Thats my point.

2)those drills were not at SH. Good job with posting sources, but all you've done is proven me correct....there were no drills at sh that day.

3) by your own admission you are ignorant of sop. 'Nuff said.

4) there is no such thing as "sort of secured" you said it. Not me. And in case you missed it, the whole sentence was quoted.

5) there was no second shooter. Anything else is irrelevant, as it amounts to a "what if". Logical fallacy.

6) a mistake is not proof of negligence.

7) the mass casualty vehicles were there. Do a google image search.

8) a) you missed the point and b) he said there were no headshots on those that HE examined. Facts. Dont let em get in your way

9)eye witness accounts from the first responders. Far more reliable than baselessly saying they didn't do anything.

10) google. Kids were pronounced dead at the hospital. Hell, you can get a video of an interview with the responder who carried one out.

But please, carry out your fetish. Dont mind the pesky facts.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 


Actually they missed 2 women hiding in the nurses supply closet (Cox and Halstead)

2 children and 1 adult were taken to Danbury hospital and another was taken to Bridgeport hospital.
Both children perished but may have been saved had they been airlifted (unlikely, but possible)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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Asktheanimals
reply to post by Sremmos80
 


Actually they missed 2 women hiding in the nurses supply closet (Cox and Halstead)

2 children and 1 adult were taken to Danbury hospital and another was taken to Bridgeport hospital.
Both children perished but may have been saved had they been airlifted (unlikely, but possible)
anyone remember the car/van full of nuns that one sticks in my mind



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


1) Your statements are not facts
2) I wasn't stating that as a fact that SH was having a drill but that their was in fact a government sponsored drill in the immediate area.

I assume this is point 3
So block the firetrucks from leaving the station so parents don't rush the school? Block the EMTS so parents don't rush the school? It was a one way street, make one block for parents further away then the staging area of the firefighters and emt getting ready to bum rush the school to save as many lives as they can. Is that SOP, just block every one? Any chance you can link that SOP?
Where is that a lack of knowledge of SOP? I am asking how blocking the medical service stops parents from rushing the school as that was your reasoning of blocking them.
Also any chance on that source of SOP since you know it so well I bet you have a link to it since the last time you read it.
4) That was the point, is that they said the scence was secure but yet it really wasn't sicne there was an unidentified person still inside the school. So in their eyes it has been secured but in reality it was never secured. So yes I said sort of and it does show that the SWAT team was unable to secure the scene properly
5) How could they POSSIBLY know there was only one shooter? First responders and clearing teams do not have that info and you know that. They are taught to assume for the worst and in that situation the worst possible scenario was a second shooter still on the loose. Why did they chase the man in the woods and briefly arrest him if they were not actively looking for another suspect? So they dodged a bullet and it was just the school nurse that made her self known.
6) Negligence: failure to take the care that a responsible person usually takes : lack of normal care or attention
They have an above then normal sense of care and attention when it comes to injured victims and clearing a building to get those victims care.
They did not take extra attention to the scene and they missed some one hiding that they should have been looking for.
7) here is the first page of the search MCI sandy hook
www.google.com... +hook&gs_l=img.3...347.347.0.746.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1ac.1.35.img..1.0.0.m5BqEqiaTrU
Please point them out to me or link the page you find them. I don't see any
8) I assume the point you are saying I missed is what a .223 or 5.56 does to the body, yes I am well aware it tumbles when it gets inside. I also know that it is crazy to assume they were not hit in the arm and leg or non fatal chest shots. Not all shots in the chest/stomach are fatal. I am sure you have heard plenty of just one more inch to the right or left stories on the news or other sources of people surviving gun shots. 26 dead and 1 injured, that is a 96% kill rate. Columbine had 2 shooters and a hostage situation and didn't even come close to that.
He also never says there was any headshot so you are doing just as much assuming as I am at this point. And pictures were given to the parents to ID the kids, you think they would do that with a gun shot wound in the head?



9) Ya i was referencing the emts that were behind the blockade. When they were told they would not be going in and no one else would be coming out.

10) They didn't leave that building till 1 am by the mouth of the ME. How did all that time pass with out them being pronounced dead by a doctor with out medical attention on scene?



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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captaintyinknots

5) there was no second shooter. Anything else is irrelevant, as it amounts to a "what if". Logical fallacy.



Hmmm, this is not fact , it's your opinion.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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Theyve been vetted.
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I believe you stated that you have family in Newtown, CT. I also believe that you stated that you know people personally that lost loved ones at Sandy Hook. You also mention that you have been "vetted" by Mods/ Admin.

If you are asking me to take your word as gospel that what happened at Sandy Hook actually happened, perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing which Mods or Admins vetted you....and secondly....how exactly was this vetting accomplished? No personal information regarding you, or the Mods/ Admins is being requested here. Merely who, and how.

All I would like to do is confirm with the Mod/ Admin, is that you are vetted. It would lend a great deal of weight to your posts as far as I'm concerned.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


3 out of 26 is not very good in my book

Not much info on the ones that were transferred either, at least not what I found.
I don't recall seeing much in the report either, though i very well could have missed it. Any chance you know the section off hand so I could double check it?



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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2 children and 1 adult were taken to Danbury hospital
reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wren't those 2 kids transported to the hospital by the police? If so....why? With so many first responders standing around doing nothing....why wouldn't they have taken them?



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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The media reports a mass school shooting with more than 2 dozen casualties.

Anyone unwilling the accept the official account without question is accused of being some kind of sicko, with a fetish. Also "clinging" to ...whatever. Have I missed any buzz words?

If you're child were at that school that day, wouldn't you want all the evidence to be as transparent as possible?

If you're child were accused of such a crime, wouldn't you want all the evidence to be as transparent as possible?

That used to be how we rolled in America. Now, apparently, it's a fetish.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 






1) Your statements are not facts


The statement that I have family in SH is a fact. It is one that, while I sent proof to SO to vet it, is really inconsequential. So lets take it out of the equation, as I accept that you and others refuse to accept it as fact. Here is my statement: Family member and neighbors and loved ones lost people close to them that day because Adam Lanza killed them.

It is 100% verifiable. All you have to do is go to that town. Contact some people from that town. Itll take about 5 minutes before youre convinced.




So block the firetrucks from leaving the station so parents don't rush the school? Block the EMTS so parents don't rush the school? It was a one way street, make one block for parents further away then the staging area of the firefighters and emt getting ready to bum rush the school to save as many lives as they can. Is that SOP, just block every one? Any chance you can link that SOP?

4) That was the point, is that they said the scence was secure but yet it really wasn't sicne there was an unidentified person still inside the school. So in their eyes it has been secured but in reality it was never secured. So yes I said sort of and it does show that the SWAT team was unable to secure the scene properly
Have you ever heard of an active mass casualty scenario in which a perimeter wasn't set? If anything, their failure was that they didn't set a big enough perimeter, as it was the cars of the very people they were trying to keep out that created a logjam (though from most of the pictures I have seen, there was a path for emergency response to get through)

Heck, you said it yourself, the scene wasn't actually secure for four hours.

That said, if you want to go after the swat team for an oversight in the tense and worst possible active situation, go for it. I think youll find it wont hold up to the legal definition of the word, and I fail to see how it proves a conspiracy, but really, have at it.




7) here is the first page of the search MCI sandy hook
here ya go, I count 9 in this one:
ww4.hdnux.com...

Youll notice that there is a pretty decent lane for them to get through, too, not that its relevant, as living victims were being moved out on foot.

Before it comes up again, I was asked who pronounced them dead: Im sure, in the official sense, it was whoever does that in that county. However, those bodies are also evidence, which means that they wouldn't be moved until the scene had been cleared.




I assume the point you are saying I missed is what a .223 or 5.56 does to the body, (rest of quote removed for space)
How old do you think these kids were? Those are some very small bodies. Very small.

If you were talking adults, that rate would be astronomical. But I cant find one single shred of evidence of a kid that age surviving being hit by multiple .223 rounds.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 





9) Ya i was referencing the emts that were behind the blockade. When they were told they would not be going in and no one else would be coming out.
Because the rest of the bodies were evidence and would be pronounced at the scene.




10) They didn't leave that building till 1 am by the mouth of the ME. How did all that time pass with out them being pronounced dead by a doctor with out medical attention on scene?
Youre confusing being pronounced dead with being dead.

At this point, this was a crime scene.

And with all of that, Im done. I tried to leave this thread at the start, once I realized the mods had already dealt with it, but you all confronted me. The truth is, I have debated this on this site far too many times than I care to admit. ANd a few things hold true in almost every one of them:
1)Most of the "conspiracies" lack even the slightest shred of evidence.
2)None who cling to the conspiracies will put their money where their mouth is. None will go to the source. And all will have an excuse as to why they wont go and see for themselves the 100% verifiable truths that are out there.
3)Post bans always follow
4)There is a fetishistic need for some to claim conspiracy without finding one first.

Ive said all along in this topic: if anyone can provide any actual evidence, ill gladly look at it. I haven't seen any, yet.
edit on 24-2-2014 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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xavi1000

captaintyinknots

5) there was no second shooter. Anything else is irrelevant, as it amounts to a "what if". Logical fallacy.



Hmmm, this is not fact , it's your opinion.
Touche. What I should have said was no second shooter was found, thus making any other scenario, such as "what if that nurse had been a second shooter" irrelevant. Unless someone is trying to claim that she was, in fact, the second shooter.

A second shooter is the one scenario I do think could have some merit.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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deadcalm



Theyve been vetted.
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I believe you stated that you have family in Newtown, CT. I also believe that you stated that you know people personally that lost loved ones at Sandy Hook. You also mention that you have been "vetted" by Mods/ Admin.

If you are asking me to take your word as gospel that what happened at Sandy Hook actually happened, perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing which Mods or Admins vetted you....and secondly....how exactly was this vetting accomplished? No personal information regarding you, or the Mods/ Admins is being requested here. Merely who, and how.

All I would like to do is confirm with the Mod/ Admin, is that you are vetted. It would lend a great deal of weight to your posts as far as I'm concerned.

Im not going to go round and round on this for the billionth time. The info was sent in a pm not long after it happened to SO. You can check with him if you want, though he tends to ignore this topic (you can see what he thinks of it by where all of these threads end up).

And, again, I am more than willing to take it out of the equation. It doesn't change any of my statements, all of which are 100% verifiable by anyone.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 





Heck, you said it yourself, the scene wasn't actually secure for four hours.

No i said they secured it when technically it was not. There is a difference




here ya go, I count 9 in this one:

LOL that is the fire house that they never left. Fail
ww4.hdnux.com...
See the fire trucks blocked as well? No response from the needed medical response
Also noted that all 9 are facing the wrong way, they are not staged to go to the school, they would need to turn around in the tight space they have




Before it comes up again, I was asked who pronounced them dead: Im sure, in the official sense, it was whoever does that in that county. However, those bodies are also evidence, which means that they wouldn't be moved until the scene had been cleared.

No they need to be xfered to the hospital so they can be saved. Their life is number one priority, how could you possibly think differently.
And then if they are not, a doctor is the one who pronounces them dead.




How old do you think these kids were? Those are some very small bodies. Very small.

If you were talking adults, that rate would be astronomical. But I cant find one single shred of evidence of a kid that age surviving being hit by multiple .223 rounds.


That is banking on the fact that adam was a dead eye and only hit center mass, 3 shots in the leg/arm to a child and they will survive. They could even survive a center mass shot if it misses vital organs, which is highly likely. The kids may be on the edge but there is ALWAYS a chance.




Because the rest of the bodies were evidence and would be pronounced at the scene

Again that is CRAZY, LIFE is priority over conserving evidence.
Also a living witness is much better then a dead one

We are the sick ones but you are ok with them not transferring kids to the hospital to preserve a crime scene

edit on thMon, 24 Feb 2014 19:18:22 -0600America/Chicago220142280 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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Im not going to go round and round on this for the billionth time. The info was sent in a pm not long after it happened to SO. You can check with him if you want, though he tends to ignore this topic (you can see what he thinks of it by where all of these threads end up).
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Thanks. I'll check with him and get back to you. I'm curious to know how he verified the information sent.

He probably won't answer, as you so graciously mentioned. Yes...I know exactly how SO and all the rest feel about this topic.

We shall see.



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