Apocalypse...End Of The World, Starring.......

Akragon
graphuto

graphutoLike I said, there is no point in arguing. We could literally go back and forth all day. You've denied the death and resurrection of Christ, and as such, are preaching false doctrine. Strange thing about it, the gift is FREE! All you have to do is ASK FOR IT!

Ask for what exactly; that ones demise is emminant, born to die and ITS ALL FREE (TO DO SO) so as I recall the information pamphlets were given at birth as to the process only; or do I have to buy a ticket first to experience my own death? I dont recall ordering front row standing room only for Jesus's crucifixion; but if I had he would be lamenting on the 'T' or better yet a more reasonable wheel (better to move about) Jesus in all practicality would wonder 'whats my cut/percentage in this deal as IAM the main event (where was my Agent (god) to take care of such things).

Akragon where did I deny that he died or was resurrected?
its all on page 2... please point it out.

YES, we are all in denial of what actually the 'take' was for the concession stands; the bartering/betting upon that particular souls final desination made during these public executions? Jesus may have garnered 50 to 1 odds of making it to heaven or split 2 to 3 in favor of.

The fact that people were punished for being wicked doesn't mean that God does not love them...

Were you ever disciplined by your parents? If so, does that mean that they don't love you? On the contrary, discipline comes FROM love.

reply to post by graphuto

I appreciate your detailed response, but fail to see how it relates.

God is not in a box, where He has to fit a description that was found amongst a collection of books that just so happen to include prophecies that were made use of by the writers of the Gospels to define the divine nature of Jesus' mission on earth, and his eternal Lordship over all those who believe in him.

Do YOU believe that Jesus was God made flesh, and that he died for our sins, and was resurrected 3 days later?

I believe that the Bible tells us that Jesus died for the improvement of our sinful condition.

The other part about his dying and being resurrected is what defines a person as a Christian, so of course I believe it.

I don't follow the interpretation of John 1 that Jesus was meant to be understood as the "Logos".
It never says that directly and seems to be referring to a characteristic of God that makes things happen, including the gift of prophecy, and also the power to instill in people a certain divine quality that makes someone a better person.
What I think the writer of John was saying was that same thing that made creation happen, was here on earth for the creation of a new thing, which was the way for people to go beyond the confines of the natural world and to live again after this life, forever.

graphuto
The fact that people were punished for being wicked doesn't mean that God does not love them...

Were you ever disciplined by your parents? If so, does that mean that they don't love you? On the contrary, discipline comes FROM love.

Does a good parent teach their child when they do wrong.... Or beat the living crap out of them as punishment...

Would a good parent not lead by example...

Would a good parent toss his/her child into a lake of fire... or forgive their transgressions?

reply to post by Akragon


Would a good parent let their "son" be crucified?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


To save the entire world? Yes. If the word WAS God, and since Jesus was the word made flesh, what's the issue? He willingly sacrificed himself to save the WHOLE WORLD!

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the end, at the basest level, people are mad that they have to answer for the things they think and do, which is a childish and petulant position to take.

vethumanbeing
reply to post by Akragon

 

Would a good parent let their "son" be crucified?

Good point... But who crucified him...

The Followers of the OT God of course...

Jesus asked his Father to "take this cup from me"... but it was meant to be, obviously there was a purpose for it...

reply to post by graphuto

Then use it. Discern the difference between the world and culture to which these text were written and understand their nature and their purpose. Much of it was meant for them in their time and does not offer much use in today's world.

Would you have women be forced to cover their head and remain quite when entering a church or is that only relevant in Paul's time and culture?

graphuto
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

graphutoTo save the entire world? Yes. If the word WAS God, and since Jesus was the word made flesh, what's the issue? He willingly sacrificed himself to save the WHOLE WORLD!

You are certain of this? I would then suppose Mohammed and Ziddhartha had a different set of parents as they died natural deaths (not with martydom as self sacrifical symbols to EXPRESS WHAT EXACTLY). You are describing Jesus as a madman (needs to be locked up/the notion of saving the whole world is insane). What was he saving the world from what exactly; itself? Jesus was following a self sacrificial template set in motion from the Egyptian 'Holy order of the Winged Disk' of Osiris and Horus, and before that the Elohim: Melchizedeks.

graphuto16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

He should have then to be transparent, opened a Qabalah 'mystery' school in Jeruselem and taught everyone what everlasting life was, soul/spirit oriented not physical body material; he could have avoided being depicted as a torture device hanging around Catholics necks for all eternity, and continue annoyingly to quote "PAUL".

graphutoIn the end, at the basest level, people are mad that they have to answer for the things they think and do, which is a childish and petulant position to take.

I think they are angry because they dont understand the physical death phenominon; why it happens and that their soul survives this (seemingly) unfair boobytrap of conundrums (brilliant success/or abysmal failure in life all face the same non-negotiable fate). The death of Jesus would be hypocritical and useless if thought his death is the salvation of others souls. He cannot precide over those others as everyone born has a unique hand in determining their own souls progression. NO ONE can intervene or give any others soul a clear pass/path to 'heaven' through a self sacrifice..(the idea is ludicrous).

reply to post by graphuto

To save the entire world? Yes. If the word WAS God, and since Jesus was the word made flesh, what's the issue? He willingly sacrificed himself to save the WHOLE WORLD!

I've taken a close look at this "the word was God" clause in John 1:1 lately to try to understand what it means by analyzing the Greek construction, specifically the use of the word here translated as "was".
I think just looking at that, it seems to be saying that there was something "god" about the Logos.

As for the "word made flesh" part in verse 14, it seems to be saying that there is something "flesh" about the Logos.

One could make a conjecture that there is a comparison intended, where you could look at the Logos by itself, as the Greek philosophers did, and depending on the context, it would be a force for the benefit of God in accomplishing His will, as in the Genesis story, or it could be seen as benefiting those who now live in and are a part of that creation.