It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is Christianity inherently discriminatory

page: 7
12
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:06 PM
link   
reply to post by ArtemisE
 


Your OP is well worded and contains legitimate concerns.

It is important to differentiate mainstream "traditional Christianity" from what scripture teaches; for they are not the same thing.

I will start with the gay debate, because it is current and directly applicable to the OP.

God, in scripture, defines what sin is. Sin is the transgression (breaking) of God's law, which was given to mankind in order to teach mankind how to think differently then their base nature (natural carnal mind). One of the sins defined by God is the sin of sodomy. The act of having sex in a manner your bodies were not designed to have sex in, is the definition of sodomy. Being oriented towards sexual attraction regarding the same sex is not sin, you feelings do not break God's law in any way; however the partaking in sex in a manner your bodies were not designed to be used in is the sin of sodomy; according to scripture.

What Christians fail to understand when they discriminate against homosexuals is that God requires those who follow Him to subject their minds to His law; it is NEVER lawful, according to God's Word, for a follower of God to attempt to subject another mind (not there own) into obedience to God's laws. Those who were called by the God of Creation in this age to be "called out" (Greek = ecclesia) of the thinking of the present age, are the only ones currently under judgement by God.

Let me repeat that statement for all to grasp.

Only those "called out ones" (small flock, Church of God, Temple of God, Body of Christ; those who have ears to hear let them understand) living in the present age have willingly chosen (by free will) to enter into judgement at this time. They know they have entered into judgement and understand the need to subject their thoughts over time into unity and oneness with Almighty God.

No other members of mankind, living in the present age, have entered into judgement at this time!

Therefore no sin committed in the present age, by those who did not willingly subject their lives under judgement at present can possibly result in permanent death.

It is also now important to explain that the "traditional Christian" concept of Hell is totally and completely off base.

"Hell" (English word translation) in the old testament was the Hebrew word "Sheol" which means "hole in the ground you go into after death" or simply "grave" in English.

"Hell" in the new testament used two different Greek words. One was "Hades" which if you study Greek mythology you would understand to be the "place under ground you go to after death" or simply "grave". The other word is "Ghenna" which translates to "all consuming fire, leaving no thing behind".

As you can see none of these words mean "hell" in the since used in traditional Christianity. It is not a "realm you go to where demons run around poking you in the behind forever in torment". God is a God of mercy; and if at the end of God perfect plan, and all ages have come to a close; if the individual mind still refuses to subject their thoughts into unity with Almighty God's to create eternal peace; then God will mercifully place them in "Ghenna fire" which will consume all substance, leaving no thing behind. God will end the life of the individual, never to grant them life again, a death that will last forever (never to be resurrected to life again). God will not torment a being forever as a punishment for living according to the natural mind He created in him, he will simply end their life forever; a punishment that lasts for eternity (death forever) is not the same as being punished for eternity (in "Hell").

In the present age of mankind, God designed a 6000 year period of time for mankind to live according to "what seems right to them". This is the age of man, they rule themselves, create their own religions, governments, economic systems, customs, traditions, calendars, theories etc; the other component to the present age is the ruler ship of Satan.

During the 6000 year age of mankind's self rule, Satan has been the god of this age. He has been allowed power to broadcast thoughts into the minds of mankind, to add to the tendency to think carnally (selfishly) resulting in increased sin throughout the world, this sin has lead to wars, famine, pestilence, hatred, envy, jealousy, and death for selfish reasons. The world we live in at present is the proof that living according to "what seems right to the individual" leads to pain suffering and death.

However mankind was meant to go through this period exactly as we have. Each individual mind choosing to live according to "what seems right to me", which due to our natural mind being selfish by design leads to selfish thinking and sin. "My way" only works for me, when we all have "my way" and they are different/unique to me; we have tension and debate. "God's way" would allow all mankind to think in unity of purpose and would result in no tension and peace (agreement).

Only by determining "my way" through a lifetime of choices, owning those choices and feeling the effect of those choices in life by those around you; can a being with free will choose to willingly deny "what seems right to my natural mind" and choose to "submit all thoughts into subjection to God's way of thinking".

God gave man 6000 years to do according to their own will, no one on Earth during those 6000 years (except a very small number that were called out of this age and chose to enter into judgement at this time) have entered into Judgement at this time. It will be followed by a 1000 year age called the Kingdom of God on Earth. And after that the "Great Resurrection" to a second life of all who lived and died without a "calling".

"6 days shall you go about your own business, but the 7th day is the Sabbath (time frame set aside for Holy use and purpose) of the Eternal, you shall not do your own works therein."

"a day is as 1000 years to the Eternal."

You are free to determine your own laws presently; therefore any "Christian" that gets upset when a state of mankind legalizes what they consider sin, is not subjecting their own thoughts to the law of God. For when we sit in judgment of another human being, we assume the position of JUDGE; a position which God's word says only Elohim can serve as in righteousness (God and Jesus Christ at present are the only members of Elohim) the "Christian" has in fact lifted up their own selves/thoughts/judgments above God's planned purpose for this age. They have broken the 1st commandment in spirit and in truth.

"You shall have no other Gods (law givers/judges) above me."

Yet they have become the judge over another human being of which only God can serve as, they became "god" in their own eyes when they judge another human being in the present age. You are to judge your own mind, never that of another.

God has a plan for a second life for those who lived in this age without God drawing them out of it. Death in this age is not the end of the potential salvation of the individual; it is halftime. You spend your first life living according to "what seems right to me" and you will live a second life after the millennial reign of the Kingdom of God on Earth according to "what God says is right", so you can experience the effects of living according to both ways, and choose to submit your thoughts to God's way of thinking, because of what it produces in life.... peace among men; something no possible presently due to 7 billion conflicting "my ways".

This is what scripture says is true. How mankind's religions calling themselves "Christian" changed this truth into what "seems right to me" according to their understanding derived primarily through the RCC false doctrines of "Heaven or Hell after death", "Trinity", "Easter and Christmas", "Sunday worship" etc.

God's truth revealed through Christ is amazing and inspiring, it is loving, patient and merciful. It does not condemn mankind in this age for living in the natural manner they were created in, for it is the very purpose of this age for all to do so.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,




posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:18 PM
link   
So after a 10 page dissertation on what is true; according to the Word of God.

I failed to answer the simple question in the OP
lol.

No.

True Christians would never discriminate against anyone in the present age, if they are subjecting their thoughts to God's way of thinking.

God Bless,
edit on 20-2-2014 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


You can't be serious..



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:21 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


O, he`s serious like you.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Specimen
 


You don't even understand why I said that. Out of everything he said, why did I say it? He knows, but do you?



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:25 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


No, Im just trolling you, like a devil over your shoulder.

As a matter of fact, I don`t understand alot of thing you say.

I see so much hate in your words.
edit on 20-2-2014 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:36 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


I am serious.

I was addressing the OP directly, so I have not yet read your posts to determine why you asked that of me.

I'll go through this thread and see what you are getting at with such a reply and we can discus if you like.

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:45 PM
link   

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by ArtemisE
 


Hell is real and references are found throughout the Scripture, in the original Hebrew and Greek (along with Aramaic), which far predates "dark age clergy" from the Catholic church. In fact, it far predates the conception of Catholicism all together.

The Bible says the unbelievers will be judged differently than the believers. He doesn't specify exactly what that means, but suffice to say it is possible you won't go to Hell. I wouldn't bet my soul on it, though. In the end, it is all up to God and He sees things objectively (because He defines reality).


Were you referencing the truth about the word translated as "hell" in English from my post?

We can discuss what you researched as the definitions of "hades", "ghenna" and "sheol" if they differ from what I presented. What did you find when researching these original words?

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:46 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


I told you he was serious.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:55 PM
link   

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by windword
 


Myself and another poster were discussing Jesus and the Bible when he jumped in and pretended we were not discussing that.

Anyways, yes God hates some people. I wasn't aware I was displaying hatred towards anyone, but people who base their thoughts on their perceptions always get it wrong anyways.


God hates sin, because it hurts others. God does not hate the sinner, for He has a perfect plan to bring them to His salvation in time. A plan that modern "Christianity" does not grasp at this time in spirit and in truth.

Hate the sin that causes pain, not the sinner; for God will judge the sinner in righteousness when that time comes.

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:57 PM
link   

Specimen
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


I told you he was serious.


There is no benefit for lying in regards to this topic, it is crucially important for this concept to be laid out clearly and seriously.

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:18 PM
link   

lonewolf2
Your verse of Revelation 22: 8 is incorrect.


Looking back on it, I meant 21:8.


windword
I think all religion, especially the 3 Abrahamic branches are evil to the core, and need to be banished from planet earth, along with their miserable, jealous, vengeful and wrathful god.


Hear hear!
edit on RAmerica/Chicago28uThu, 20 Feb 2014 14:27:18 -06002-0600fCST02 by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing because: .



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:20 PM
link   

ElohimJD
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


I am serious.

I was addressing the OP directly, so I have not yet read your posts to determine why you asked that of me.

I'll go through this thread and see what you are getting at with such a reply and we can discus if you like.

God Bless,


I was referring to you presenting Hell as simply the grave. In both the OT and the NT, it is made clear that Hell is not just the grave. Remember the guy asking for just a drop of water on his tongue? He did not believe the prophets, so he would not believe even if he saw a man raised from the dead. That is why he was told he could not go back to warn his family.

I was also referring to your idea of another chance after death, or loose allusions to multiple lives.

And most importantly, the false idea that only those who are God's children will be judged by God or are under God's judgment. God judges all things. His children he judges differently from the rest.
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:24 PM
link   

ElohimJD

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by windword
 


Myself and another poster were discussing Jesus and the Bible when he jumped in and pretended we were not discussing that.

Anyways, yes God hates some people. I wasn't aware I was displaying hatred towards anyone, but people who base their thoughts on their perceptions always get it wrong anyways.


God hates sin, because it hurts others. God does not hate the sinner, for He has a perfect plan to bring them to His salvation in time. A plan that modern "Christianity" does not grasp at this time in spirit and in truth.

Hate the sin that causes pain, not the sinner; for God will judge the sinner in righteousness when that time comes.

God Bless,


Actually, mainstream Christianity always says exactly what you just said to attract followers. For you as a human, it is only proper to hate the sin and not the sinner because you can not judge a man's heart. As for God:

Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion. biblehub.com...

There are many more passages showing that God hates some people, but that sums it up pretty well don't you think? He also sends some people to Hell for eternity.

God has favorites, hates some people, and will send some people to Hell. It's just the way it is.
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:29 PM
link   

ElohimJD

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by ArtemisE
 


Hell is real and references are found throughout the Scripture, in the original Hebrew and Greek (along with Aramaic), which far predates "dark age clergy" from the Catholic church. In fact, it far predates the conception of Catholicism all together.

The Bible says the unbelievers will be judged differently than the believers. He doesn't specify exactly what that means, but suffice to say it is possible you won't go to Hell. I wouldn't bet my soul on it, though. In the end, it is all up to God and He sees things objectively (because He defines reality).


Were you referencing the truth about the word translated as "hell" in English from my post?

We can discuss what you researched as the definitions of "hades", "ghenna" and "sheol" if they differ from what I presented. What did you find when researching these original words?

God Bless,


From reading the Bible and seeing the context, it is clear what Sheol is, and what Gehenna is, and what Hades refers to.

Rev 21:8 biblehub.com...
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Obviously, everyone is under God's judgment. God judges His children differently than those who are not His children.


I could provide tons more Scripture from pretty much every book in the Bible to show you that the Bible certainly illustrates the reality of Hell, but you have to disregard the Scripture to come to the conclusions you have come to anyways (either that or just be ignorant).



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:30 PM
link   

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by lonewolf2
 


The Catholic church was not the original church nor was it ever the only church. Protestants and denominations, as you put it, are offshoots of Catholicism. They can be found in service every Sunday and getting drunk every Sabbath (Saturday). The Catholics changed the day they consider the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st to incorporate paganism, along with countless holidays and feasts..
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church.

By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:34 PM
link   

lonewolf2

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by lonewolf2
 


The Catholic church was not the original church nor was it ever the only church. Protestants and denominations, as you put it, are offshoots of Catholicism. They can be found in service every Sunday and getting drunk every Sabbath (Saturday). The Catholics changed the day they consider the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st to incorporate paganism, along with countless holidays and feasts..
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church.


Sorry, I used to be just as brainwashed as you because I was raised Catholic. It is simply not true. Recognizing this as a lie and researching the real history of Christianity is the first step to freeing yourself from the false authority of the priesthood.

God's Church is wherever 2 or 3 gather in his name. When 2 or 3 of you are talking about Jesus, his real presence is there. No priest necessary.

I will read the rest of your post, but I doubt I will respond considering the opening statement.

ETA: Fine I will respond to the final statement: there are not 1 billion practicing Catholics. Propaganda, plain and simple.

The first and last statements are part of how I know the Catholic church is lying. There are members of God's church in the Catholic church, but that does not make the Catholic church God's church, nor does it mean God agrees with what men have dictated as true. Considering the amount of changes to the faith men have made in Catholicism and the amount of pagan influence, I do not fear going to Hell for not being Catholic. In fact, I believe God does not want me to be Catholic. He might want others to be, but I feel that that is not where He wants me. I am afraid of going to Hell for other things, but not for that.
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 03:18 PM
link   

FreeWillAnomaly

lonewolf2

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by lonewolf2
 


The Catholic church was not the original church nor was it ever the only church. Protestants and denominations, as you put it, are offshoots of Catholicism. They can be found in service every Sunday and getting drunk every Sabbath (Saturday). The Catholics changed the day they consider the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st to incorporate paganism, along with countless holidays and feasts..
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church.


Sorry, I used to be just as brainwashed as you because I was raised Catholic. It is simply not true. Recognizing this as a lie and researching the real history of Christianity is the first step to freeing yourself from the false authority of the priesthood.

God's Church is wherever 2 or 3 gather in his name. When 2 or 3 of you are talking about Jesus, his real presence is there. No priest necessary.

I will read the rest of your post, but I doubt I will respond considering the opening statement.

ETA: Fine I will respond to the final statement: there are not 1 billion practicing Catholics. Propaganda, plain and simple.

The first and last statements are part of how I know the Catholic church is lying. There are members of God's church in the Catholic church, but that does not make the Catholic church God's church, nor does it mean God agrees with what men have dictated as true. Considering the amount of changes to the faith men have made in Catholicism and the amount of pagan influence, I do not fear going to Hell for not being Catholic. In fact, I believe God does not want me to be Catholic. He might want others to be, but I feel that that is not where He wants me. I am afraid of going to Hell for other things, but not for that.
edit on 20-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


People that make such blanket statements shows ignorance in what Catholics actually believe. Where are your references that when criticizing and condemning the Church. The statement on hell, is yet another ludicrous blanket statement that is not true.

Vatican's Statistical Yearbook of the Church reports that the number of Catholics in the world, almost 1.2 billion andcontinues to grow with the global population, holding steady at about 17.5 percent of the world's people. In the 20 years between 1990 and 2010, the global Catholic population grew from 928.5 million to almost 1.2 billion.

America alone 2013 - 78.2m identify as Catholic

He said to Peter, “you are rock and on this rock I will build my Church”. (Matthew 16:18) He also said, to the twelve, “whoever hears you hears me.” (Luke 10: 16) And, “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 03:48 PM
link   
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Great post! I skimmed some.. It's really long, but didn't get a definitive answer on the OP. So you do think the concept of unbelievers going to hell is discrimination? You just don't think it's actual accurate Christianity to believe that. Right?

That's a really good answer. I don't think the concept of heaven is bigotry. I really think the concept of hell for unbelievers is....

Thanx for your time. Took a lot of time and effort. I'm gonna finish reading it now.
your points are all very reasonable and logical.... That I've read so far.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by chuck258
 


Chuck read the OP. This goes for all religions....it's not a well this religion is worse then mine thread.



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join