Is Christianity inherently discriminatory

mOjOm
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Not all religions are exclusive however. Some Eastern Religions like Taoism and Buddhism aren't exclusionary.

One path leads to God = Exclusionary

All paths lead to God = Inclusive

Purely from an academic perspective defining Christianity "inclusive" and "exclusive" here in the op's contexts is really sophomoric. Its like a little ant trying to pick up a thousand pound rock.

I wonder about Satanism and if they may be discriminatory as well ? You think they may well have the opposite beliefs and places for the unbelievers ???? peace

TrueBrit
reply to post by dam00

 

You know, anyone would think that you were deliberately trying to scupper any possible reconciliation between the people of this planet, or indeed any understanding of the positive message of Christ.

How is my opinion going to scupper anything ?

and as you are talking about the positive message could you tell me one positive thing homosexuality has done, I doubt you will be able to come up with anything other than giving hetro blokes more women to choose from
so why is homosexuality branded as cool and nice when it clearly isnt

TrueBrit
reply to post by ArtemisE

 

If you read the sections of the Bible, which contain the words of Jesus Christ, you will not see a prejudicial word amongst them, because his message was forgiveness and love. He only showed anger and fury against those who abused his fathers name for their own gain. You do not see a page where he beats a homosexual over the head, or expresses loathing toward persons who have nothing.

Well this is certainly not all true. The first thing Mark has Jesus saying is "Repent". Jesus demonstrated to all, not just the Pharisees, that there needed to be a turning from their ways. He called them all a "wicked and perverse generation".

And He told everybody... "don't fear those that can kill your body. Fear Him that can kill your body and then cast you into hell as well".

Now I am only saying this to clear up some of the confusion that gets passed of for Jesus. Purely academic don't you know. He said all sorts of things even average Joe would find disconcerting.

Why do these discussions always end up being an argument about homosexuality?

Why not pick on wiccans, or bratty children... Or fortune tellers...

They all get the same treatment according to the "Good" book...

Gay bashing needs its own forum, just so those of us who don't give a ^&#% about the subject can just ignore it

Christianity states that there are two classes of people, in general: Christians and non-Christians.

Christianity teaches that Christians have been fundamentally changed physically, mentally, and spiritually and have thereby been "set apart" from all the other humans in the world and are called by their god as "a special people."

Christianity believes that its teachings are the absolute truth for everyone everywhere and everything that disagrees with those teachings is a lie.

Christianity makes it a point of faith that Christians should go into the world and convince others of these absolute truths, and historically at least, when the others weren't "convinced" they were put to the sword, burned at the stake, thrown in jail, etc. etc.

Discriminatory? /shrug Maybe.

Gryphon66

Christianity makes it a point of faith that Christians should go into the world and convince others of these absolute truths, and historically at least, when the others weren't "convinced" they were put to the sword, burned at the stake, thrown in jail, etc. etc.

Where exactly is this happening now ?

TrueBrit
reply to post by Klassified

 

I am sure about his intent. There are the examples of Jesus speaking out against sin, but he offers no SPECIFIC detail as to which sinners he refers to. He was a man who broke bread with, and gave love to all manner of criminals, deviants, prostitutes, thieves, bandits, lepers...

Context dude... Do not ignore it!

As an atheist, I agree. I've read the bible multiple times and while Klassified's quotes are correct in that those gospels stated that the basic premise of "if you don't follow Jesus, you're going to hell", it was not specifically discriminatory to any one group. Hence the parable of the "Good Samaritan", his acceptance of Mary Magdalene, and more as you cited. The only condition really, from what I recall, was belief in him. While I'd say that that condition does make Christianity inherently exclusionary, the acceptance of all those groups that were looked down upon socially doesn't make it inherently discriminatory.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

Although the Samaritans were a branch of Judaism, the prevalent opinion of them by the Jews in the region were not good in the slightest and occasionally resulted in violent confrontations. So this parable by Jesus of the "Good Samaritan" was really loaded as the two groups really, really disliked each other. Positively heretical of Jesus to tell that story.

reply to post by dam00


Which part, the proselytizing? Everywhere there are Christians, in my experience.

Burning, sword, etc.? Note the word historically.

Gryphon66
reply to post by dam00

 

Which part, the proselytizing? Everywhere there are Christians, in my experience.

Burning, sword, etc.? Note the word historically.

LOL so are you suggesting all Christians force there beliefs onto everyone else ?

in my experience most Christians I know dont mind what religion/beliefs you are or have unlike some followers of other religions I could mention

In the OP note the word is meaning now, instead of the word was meaning in the past

TrueBrit
reply to post by Klassified

 

I am sure about his intent. There are the examples of Jesus speaking out against sin, but he offers no SPECIFIC detail as to which sinners he refers to. He was a man who broke bread with, and gave love to all manner of criminals, deviants, prostitutes, thieves, bandits, lepers...

Context dude... Do not ignore it!

Can you add some context to these?



They are quite puzzling to be in such contrast to what people claim he was about.

reply to post by dam00


Not all of the various flavors of Christianity allow for proselytizing. It depends each flavor's interpretation. I used to get regularly approached by members of The Door and God's Army in New Mexico. The Door would tell me that I was going to hell if I didn't accept Jesus as God's son and savior (I LOVED messing with them) and God's Army members would simply try to sell me artworks or bread. So really, even in the most extreme religious groups, there seems to be a huge difference in proselytizing. From my experience, the majority of my friends are Christian and are fully aware that I am an atheist. They respect my beliefs and I respect theirs. Not a single one of them has ever tried converting me. Instead, most, in my experience seem to be more like Matthew 6:5 and 6:6:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

biblehub.com...

Some proselytize and some don't. It seems to me to be a matter of interpretation of the bible and what a specific sect believes to be the more definitive interpretation.

Sure. It discriminates against sinners. It doesn't matter what race, gender, age, etc.

ArtemisE

Hey ATS peeps,

With the law they tried to pass in Kansas failing, I gotta ask. Is Christianity inherently discrimitory?

No, but people are, and Christians aren't magically out of humanity. Just think of someone you cannot stand: what would it take for you to love them with all your heart? Christians come face to face with this daily, and they still fail.

Let's look at some scriptures:

Matthew 22:36-39
35One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And He said to him, " `YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, `YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

These texts are very old, and translated through a few languages to get to us. There's going to be some level of interpretation going on, no matter what we do to correct that. It's just going to happen. Problem is that there's a lot of people who claim Christianity who will not use the interpretive tool that Christ used.

Love God/ Love Neighbor

It should be simple. We don't always get it.

Matthew 5:43-48
43"You have heard that it was said, `YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47"If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

My natural inclination is to take out the one who wants to hurt me, any way possible. If I pick up Christianity--that's no longer my position in life. This is NOT easy to live, and I fail it, quite often.

Matthew 24:10-13
10"At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11"Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. 13"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

This is a prophecy--one that I think was actually fulfilled by the time the Apostles quit writing. But it does show the nature of things:

The more divided Christianity becomes, the more there's going to be a lack of love in the people who claim Christendom.

Christianity in the USA is so splintered that movements with the same name and origin won't talk to each other! We won't attempt unity within ourselves--although many of us are calling for it, badly. And most of us believe that this shift has come about because we no longer focus on who our God is, but on how right our church is. Y'all have no clue about the striving I deal with, in groups of Christians that are failing to meet their maker's "dying prayer to His Father" (Christ's prayer in the Garden).

Hrm: let's go a little more difficult, without going controversial:

2 Thessalonians 3:6-12
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. 7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, 8nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; 9not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. 10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. 12Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.

This actually states that you should not feed one who will not work. Can rather sound like enforced labor, and if misused can badly strain the Love God / Love Neighbor paradigm.

Thing is that some explanations are given in the text: these people were being a deliberate burden to their adopted family, and stirring up trouble because they were too idle. Outside this text, early Christianity was well known for living, more often, a communal lifestyle. It put a financial burden on those that had money, but made survival a bit better for those who started out with nothing. Someone who was not working and causing trouble at the same time? Heck, that's sounds like a lot of the world's problems--all those armchair quarterbacks who don't get off their backsides and do something for once?

reply to post by Grimpachi


Grimmy grimmy grimmy. Way to miss the point of those edited quotes and verses.(added pictures to color their meanings not th ephrases themselves)

The first one. That one was to the HEBREWS/jews in regard to a Enemy they had back then and spoke of revenging themselves against them.

The second one. THE LAW OF MOSES/APPLIES TO THE HEBREWS ONCE AGAIN.
It does not apply to Gentiles/non hebrews. This is a typical mistake made by people trying to say christianity this christianity that. EVEN THE PREACHERS HAVE DONE IT! Church's need to recognize the OT is supossed to be a HISTORY to the Gentiles So they can see where they started from. Only Gods chosen people(th ehebrews) are to live under the strictures BECAUSE they would not accept Jesus at his word.

reply to post by Klassified

"Into the fire that shall never be quenched"…

sounds like the Sun to me.

dam00

Gryphon66
reply to post by dam00

 

Which part, the proselytizing? Everywhere there are Christians, in my experience.

Burning, sword, etc.? Note the word historically.

LOL so are you suggesting all Christians force there beliefs onto everyone else ?

in my experience most Christians I know dont mind what religion/beliefs you are or have unlike some followers of other religions I could mention

In the OP note the word is meaning now, instead of the word was meaning in the past

In truth, I have never met a Christian that didn't think that way, act that way, live that way.

Not sure of your other point. I gave a historical context to a current statement. So what?

We are all discriminatory, regardless of belief set.

It's not just Christians. It's everybody, of every walk of life.

Humanity is divisive and separated from itself. There is more control in this, it helps justify in minds, the profitable business of war.

CdT

reply to post by yuppa



Well you could be right about the first one and that is why I am asking however you are telling me the preachers got the second one wrong but YOU have it right.

Let me ask you this how many christians was Jesus speaking to when he made the statements.

Actually how many christians did Jesus Know when he was alive. Jesus wasn't a christian was he?

reply to post by Grimpachi


You are kidding, right? Luke 19:27 is CLEARLY taken out of context, as it is a snippet from a parable and Jesus is speaking as a narrator. He isn't saying that anyone who doesn't believe in him should be brought before him and killed. Completely ridiculous.

The second verse is also taken out of context as it is saying that Christ did not come to abolish the law (as some claim) but to fulfill it. The Law of moses still applies today to all 3 abrahamic faiths in the form of the 10 commandments. Certain laws written in leviticus and elsewhere in the old testament do not necessarily apply today, and that has ZERO to do with Christianity. Ever wonder why Jewish people don't stone their disobedient children? Because Rabbinic Law can be amended with the times, and it has been. If JEWISH people don't follow all of the OT laws to a T and instead consider some of them relics of ancient history that no longer apply to modern life, why is there a problem with Christ claiming the same thing by stating he FULFILLED it?

Edit to add: Most belief systems are exclusionary, including Atheism. Plenty of Atheists around here that have a problem with religious people. Buddhism is also a poor example, as it is also exclusionary and contrary to popular belief, there IS a hell in Buddhism. This implies that some people go on to enlightenment and others spend a very long time in Hell (which is "exclusionary").

Political and Economic ideologies are exclusionary, Religious ideologies are exclusionary (even the wishy washy new age stuff which claims to accept everyone...Everyone BUT Christians who base their beliefs on the bible), etc. Think of an ideology/belief system and I can almost guarantee you there are ways to point out how it is exclusionary. It's human nature, because we are all different and it's impossible to agree with everyone. The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same anyways.