Lowell woman pulls gun on snow shoveler who demanded money

The title of the article is a bit sensationalistic, I'll admit (she didn't "pull a gun" here), but, the content of the story and her actions are the important part IMO. This is an example of a responsible firearm owner. And if anyone here knows, Lowell Massachusetts is one of the most strict cities in one of the strictest states regarding CCW and firearm ownership.
After initially refusing to pay and telling the man to leave and closing the door, the man continued to bang on the door demanding payment. So the woman returned, with her sidearm in hand and calmly asked him to leave again while holding it at her side.

Police in Lowell say a man who demanded money for shoveling the driveway of an elderly couple who hadn't asked him to do so was chased away when the 79-year-old woman answered her door holding a gun.

Ful Article

The good part, is that following the police investigation and interview of both the suspect/man and elderly woman involved, no charges will be brought upon her for her actions, and she will not press charges upon him. This is a great example of measured force in a tense situation, with no wild reactionary "gun nut" actions on her part. As you can see, people can (and the majority do) take personal firearm ownership, and our rights seriously and are responsible. The press rarely runs these type of stories these days. It is actually surprising, and refreshing, to see the media ACTUALLY report on this since nobody was shot, killed, or chased at high speed.

Good for her, and good for the paper for reporting this.

What kind of idiot shovels a driveway, without permission and discussion of payment?

Hope he learned his lesson, but he doesn't sound too bright.

reply to post by Krakatoa


Do you think she would've shot the guy if he unshoveled the driveway? I wonder if she thanked the guy after declining to pay?

Reminds me of the window washers who do a crappy job when you hit a light or something and demand money.

Well people can be jerks for all kinds of different reasons.

Sounds like an excellent use of a firearm to me, and a great example of the good they can do without a shot ever being fired.

He apparently thought he could intimidate and scare the elderly lady into compliance with what he demanded. She showed, in no uncertain terms, it wasn't happening that way with her. Not even close. Good for her!

Good too..that she knew the importance of how she carried it. Held down...not aimed..not overtly threatening..but very clear for the statement of where escalation will go next. Perfect!

I thought it was important to post this story when I saw it precisely because the media typically shies away from these stories because it can have the potential to hurt a gun-control agenda, and, it's not very "exciting news" to the vast uneducated population.

In addition, I know for a fact that the Lowell Police dept has a tendency to respond in, let's say "a less than immediate threat" time frame, for these type of reports if called in to the station. Typically, they respond in 20-30 minutes at best, since the city budget has been cut to the bone. Add to that the fact that the current police force is under a massive investigation for being responsible for the death of an unconscious woman they arrested, threw in a cell, and ignored. Only after a long while someone went in and discovered her with no pulse. Then, it took about 15 minutes for medical personnel to be called to check on her state, at which point she was dead.

So, that being the case, imagine how long it would have taken them to respond if this woman depended solely upon them to respond to this incident....during which time she and her elderly husband would have been at risk from this guy's threats. Her cool headed and measured response was indeed perfect. She diffused the situation, immediately, with no harm done.

Kudos to her, and others that respond in kind but do not get the press coverage.

What they're not telling you is that shortly after she closed the door, the gun killed 5 people, burned down an orphanage and foreclosed on a disabled veterans mortgage, leaving him and his family to sleep in his car.

I know some teenagers that would pull that sort of stuff on the elderly to scam them into giving them money. I bet the guy was charging her a lot too. Some people are not shy at using intimidation to force others to do what they want. Why didn't the cops give this guy a ticket anyway, just because the woman did not press charges doesn't mean this guy should get away with it all together.

Oh I guess I should be quiet about this, this guy may be our president in a few decades. They tend to make us pay for things we don't really want.

Well you know...... what everyone is missing is that she didn't have to answer the door a second time. she could have ignored it and called the police.

But no.

The 'Don't tread on me' attitude comes through and everyone is a law-maker.

If the guy had of kicked in the door then she would have been prepared, I'm sure he would have run away as soon as he got through the door and seen the gun and with all of the warning of such an event that she would have had she could have set up a very nice and commanding firing positon.

Coming to the door with a gun in your hand is not nessecary. She's probably lucky he wasn't armed.
If he had of had a gun, he would have had it ready to go ie: pointing at the door before she opened it.

If she had of been unarmed he most likely wouldn't shoot, too much noise and ruin his scam.
If she had the gun by her side, he would have instantly seen it and fired.

One dead granny.

But it's so much more important to stand your ground, even though you don't really need to.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

The police exist for a reason guys, utilize them.

reply to post by Raivan31


Being a world away, I can understand you not understanding the first-hand knowledge I have of the police response in this city. IF they called and waited and IF the man decided to break into the house, then someone would likely be DEAD in your scenario. Explain to me how that scenario is better than the ACTUAL outcome here?

Or is it that for you, it is best that nobody is able to defend themselves and are 100% dependent upon the government to do everything for you, even wiping your soft butt?

Raivan31
If she had of been unarmed he most likely wouldn't shoot, too much noise and ruin his scam.
If she had the gun by her side, he would have instantly seen it and fired.

And your qualifications for knowing this is what? You were the guy?

reply to post by Raivan31


Put the liquor laced cool aid down.

Raivan31
Well you know...... what everyone is missing is that she didn't have to answer the door a second time. she could have ignored it and called the police.

But no.

The 'Don't tread on me' attitude comes through and everyone is a law-maker.
....snipped ..."



What on earth makes you say this woman is a "law-maker'?
It seems to me that the very fact that the authorities investigated the incident and said she did no wrong would sink to you. Why should she wait minutes or hours for the police to show up when she can defend herself in seconds with a weapon? At least this thug was smart enough to know not to bring a snow shovel to a gunfight!
If you want to be scared of guns, that's fine by me. If you want to depend on the authorities to show up in a timely manner to rescue you from thugs intent on harming you, that's just dandy by me. But don't hold me to your belief system. Mine has served me well as have my guns. There is a distinct possibility that I would be a widow today had I not appeared on my front porch, much as this lady did, with a weapon in my hand. I never pointed it---the mere appearance of it made the bad guys flee. And yes, I did call the cops---prior to showing my weapon---and yes, they did arrive 25 minutes after the incident was concluded. But they did apprehend the bad guys because they were only a few miles down the road attempting the same stuff with the same results at a neighbor's home. At sentencing the judge told them they should be extremely thankful to be facing prison rather than the local cemetery.

edit on 19-2-2014 by diggindirt because: confusion

reply to post by Raivan31

She had the right to refuse to pay him. Hell she had the right to stop him from shovelling too...but that may have been dangerous for her IF he DID have an ILLEGAL gun. She waited until she had the upper hand, smart woman.

Looks like she showed her gun at a time his hands were occupied beating on her door, so if he DID have a gun, well, hers was under her hand, his was not yet in sight...so I'd take bets she WAS ready to pull and shoot. That would have been a good thing too. Another scumbag dead. That's always a good thing.

Some people...T&C violations dance in my head but I cannot share, I'm so sorry for those who would love to hear it...but you would not. That is a bad thing (that I can't share the dancing thoughts).

I'll just say, I hope that you learn what an ILLEGAL gun does to people before you take actions that take people's LEGAL guns away. You people never want to take actions against the ILLEGAL guns...jsut the legal ones...what's up wit dat?

People will pull a gun over everything these days....I'm not impressed....

Krakatoa
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Being a world away, I can understand you not understanding the first-hand knowledge I have of the police response in this city. IF they called and waited and IF the man decided to break into the house, then someone would likely be DEAD in your scenario. Explain to me how that scenario is better than the ACTUAL outcome here?

Or is it that for you, it is best that nobody is able to defend themselves and are 100% dependent upon the government to do everything for you, even wiping your soft butt?

edit on 2/19/2014 by Krakatoa because: Fixed spelling and other fat-finger errors

So your argument is based on 'IF' the police turn up.

And are you so nieve as to think there are no guns and gun violence in my country?
If anything, my mistake was assuming that American criminals were as (mostly) non violent as Australias. They'll use guns, but only if they are needed. People do get shot, but it's generally as a last resort.

Now this guy with his shovel did not strike me as being some hardened thug. But instead, he was con-man.

You see a bunch of crips hopping up your driveway then chances are they will hurt you.

And as I said.... there isn't a lot of need to shoot a gun, when you are the only one with one.
Could she not have just yelled out, "I have a gun and I've called the police"

What I am saying is that Americans are even more likely to escalate to extremem violence and posturing then Russians.

MOST other cultures prefer to fist fight. or use bludgeoning weapons like a baseball bat.

You kill someone you have to live with that. Most people are badly affected by killing someone, it'll mess with their head. This is common knowledge amongst all of my global friends.

Yet Americans seem to know nothing about this..... (SOME AMERICANS, don't get all cranky with me, I'm being lazy not pooling you all into the same sludge bucket.)

Death and murder is glorified to scary degrees in America, Almost as if some of you do not actually feel remorse or regret about killing someone.

A healthy person will feel weird about killing someone who was trying to kill them.
But not gun toting Murica.

I'm calling into question the state of mental health of a person that is nieve to the well established and widely known fact that killing people messes with a healthy persons head.

I had to bash a violent bums head with a guitar when i was a kid because he was trying to mug me. I ran. and for months i thought he had died because the news that night talked about a homeless man who had been beaten to death.
I hated myself for that whole time....... Untill i saw the stupid idiot bumming cash at a local supermarket with a big scar on his forehead. I approached him, he instantly recognized me and look terrified. Seeing that look on his face made me feel sick to my stomach. I told him we were even and explained how i had been grieving his death, then Bought him lunch.

This is how civilized people deal with messed up situations.

WTH is wrong with you if you are so eager for everyone to be on a hair trigger??

Have YOU ever experienced this first hand? NO?

Well it's a life-changing experience. Maybe a stint in the military will cure you of your bloodlust. It worked for my brother

reply to post by Raivan31


Many other nations don't have a degree of the population which are actually "institutionalized" and between trips back in, at any given time. I have known people in my life who literally saw being outside jail or prison as the exception and, to their words, vacation. In fact, I'd rented a room to one with my sister in law before learning later what kind of person he was. He went up on 4 counts of 1st degree arson with concurrent 45 year sentences. Just goes to show you don't know some people. Seemed like a reformed ex-con...but actually just looked at being out and anything done while here as a freebie. Thankfully, for whatever reason, he never saw us as targets.

That's some (not all) of the criminal mindset which perhaps your nation doesn't have as much if any of. That is, people who literally see crime as a free thing, since going back to prison is not only seen as inevitable but preferable in the long term.

It makes some good reasons for home defense with a firearm and concealed carry.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The trend I have seen in crime in my area (and the U.S. generally) is that criminals are more likely to use the gun even when the victims have submitted. Home invasions have become particulary brutal as young thugs get a kick out of what raiven states should be a lifelong horror to them.

With that shield gone, the law-abiding public are also increasingly apprehensive, after being taught for years the best thing is to 'submit and you won't get hurt', are finding that is no longer the case.

With police departments overloaded (the poster stated above that IF they show up, I take that as meaning IF they show up timely - which they DON'T), people are left with the options of subit and die horribly, or defend themselves.

Remorse is great, and people should not get hardened to death. But choices are choices. As the perp will not stop due to supposed 'remorse', neither should the victim-turned-defender.

And for the non-violent scammers? They have to learn the new ways too. Don't show up with a shovel to scam, that game don't work where people are getting used to, and learning how to STOP, more violent types of crime!