GOOD NEWS ATS - No longer will I make religious threads.

reply to post by kalunom


No one has ever used science to come to god. Not blasting you amigo. I've done a lot of looking into intelligent design and creationism. To the best of my knowledge the scientists who try and prove god or Christianity all have a religious "awakening" then try and find a way for science to prove it.
No one has started an athiest then some science experiment made them believe in God. The ID bozos have even been proven fakes in a court of law!

InTheLight

I once knew a powerful lawyer and on his desk (facing the person entering the office) was a big sign that read 'LISTEN'. Me being inquisitive, I of course questioned him. I asked him "Is that sign for me?" He laughed and replied "No, it's for me...to remind me to listen to you".

Aha, but that sign is for us All.
It's even worth putting up on the Wall.

Don't be discouraged. Try a few times for each person you're trying to reach out to, and if they continue to refuse, move on. If someone refuses to believe on Jesus, they simply can't understand. This theme is a supernatural occurance present a few times in the Bible.

muzzleflash

InTheLight

I once knew a powerful lawyer and on his desk (facing the person entering the office) was a big sign that read 'LISTEN'. Me being inquisitive, I of course questioned him. I asked him "Is that sign for me?" He laughed and replied "No, it's for me...to remind me to listen to you".

Aha, but that sign is for us All.
It's even worth putting up on the Wall.

In this particular case, he was a powerful lawyer who understood his intellectual and legal technical level was above most others, so he explained to me that it was a reminder for him and him alone.

Jesuslives4u
Now before you judge just let me say…….After long meditation and prayer I have come to the decision that no longer will you hear me discussing and ranting on about religious subjects here at ATS. Of course ATS has many other forums and often I see threads that strike my attention that have nothing to do with religion and there is where I will be.

As many of you have told me; it is best I keep my opinion to myself and you are right. I will keep my mouth closed about religion because you do not want to hear it and I now get it.

I always thought mankind had an open mind and many of you do but I see it is I with the closed mind, why? Because I have seen God in a NDE and twice while awake and all three times it was unexpected. I can’t deny what I have seen. Not only that but when I hear truth concerning God and his kingdom my spirit inside me goes off like an alarm…..it is so overwhelming from head to toe I can not speak and at times start to shake. I can not explain and often it catches me off guard and people stare and ask if everything is O.K.

FYI: I am over 50 – been checked out by my doctor – no issues. No physical or mental health issues. ☺

I use to think I could overwhelm anyone and bring them to God but you guys have shown me the error of my ways. Believe it or not I have learned a lot from your comments. You have taught me and shown me that my pride and confidence in my faith is not for everyone. Pride comes before the fall.

This will make many of you happy and if it does than I am glad to bring a smile across your face. This will not be my last thread! ☺ It will be my last in the religious forum though. Do not misinterpret my thoughts – I have not changed my mind about God and I never will. I still worship him and love him and I always will no matter what.

So…….to Wildtimes, AfterInfinity, Boymonkey, Akragon and others if you were insulted by any of my comments, I am sorry. Maybe we will see each other on a different forum, who knows.

Good luck to all,

Sincerely,

Richard

Apologetics

Its not about winning people over
Its about telling people why you believe, why there is a validity to your beliefs.
Dont surrender, be hounest and state your reasons for belief without fighting for the sake of apolegetics.
We are not here to win souls, just explain why the gospel is real in our lives
Christianity is about balance
the balance is not giving up and not fighting

ArtemisE
reply to post by kalunom

 

No one has ever used science to come to god. ... No one has started an athiest then some science experiment made them believe in God.

Not 'blasting back' at you either but, how do you know? Or, is it just your belief that no one has ever used science to come to God? There are certainly those that have discovered that science is not providing they answers they seek and they look elsewhere (I know that because that includes myself).

Your second statement quoted above I can't deny. If that experiment were a possibility, the world would be a very different place.

For me, God is the ultimate truth, an absolute. Different people use different words - I don't normally use "God". What does science seek? Truth? What does religion seek? Truth?

As for atheists - I can't see how they seek anything. Without belief that something is possible, or that 'more' exists, why look?

I'd just like to announce that I will be making Religious threads from this point on out.

reply to post by Lysergic


Cool! What's your take on this very messy issue???

oktopus
This is no place to discuss anything religious openly. It's the breeding place of wolves in sheepscloathing. You won't see me around here anymore too. Too closedminded, too dumb and too stupid people here.

I think you have missed the entire point of this thread. Saying that people are too stupid and to claim that people who disagree with you are "wolves in sheeps clothing" is a clear sign that your mind is closed to discussion.

It is statements like these that led the OP to feel as though he had let himself down by not being fair and openminded in discussion.

reply to post by oktopus

This is no place to discuss anything religious openly.

Mmmm. No.

Nope! This IS the place to discuss "anything religious" openly.
But:
it is NO PLACE to proselytize.
How's the "Siddhartha" reading coming along?
Seeing some connections you might have missed before??

(hope so)

reply to post by kalunom


There can be no experiment to prove the existence of the supernatural. "Supernatural" by def means something apart from the natural, physical world. An experiment requires something to be observed. Once that thing is observed it necessarily becomes part of the natural world and therefor negates any claims of "supernatural".

The word supernatural is really a misnomer. There can not be anything observed outside of the natural or physical realm because of this. However there are definately things outside of our understanding. If a creator god were real he would necessarily have to be a physical entity. (Possibly beyond our understanding).

To me, this negates all claims of deity.

reply to post by rickymouse

He said that it is better to let people see the peace and tranquility you have because of your belief.

I agree with this, 100%. Yes, I argue with people a lot, but it's almost always factual arguments, I generally leave people to their own beliefs. Being reasonable and not preaching is a good counter, I think, to the stereotypical Christian Fundamentalist standing on a street corner, shouting that if you don't agree with him, you're going to Hell.

I love this saying -- "Sometimes you are the only Bible anyone is ever going to read."

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

I will keep my mouth closed about religion because you do not want to hear it and I now get it.

Keep the dialogue and dialectic about religion open. All sides need to have a voice. People need to talk about it. Just realize our own inherent ignorance in the face of the unknown, an ignorance we all share, and find comfort in the uncertainty.

reply to post by Woodcarver

If a creator god were real he would necessarily have to be a physical entity. (Possibly beyond our understanding).

To the contrary, the creator of physical reality couldn't be a physical being, because, logically, the creation cannot contain the creator when it is created. Under Judaism and Christianity, yes, God is incomprehensible, at least in part.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


Versions of the Jesus cults are hawked by the most conniving charlatans one can imagine. Many of them have been exposed but just as many I expect continue to hide their thievery behind hallelujahs and thank you Jesus-es. It is no wonder an honest man finds so much skepticism when sharing spiritual insight.

There are some who are honest who try to deliver a truth they have beheld as a hammer, hardening the hearts of those who have wearied of being pounded over the head. I think a finer style is that of a Johnny Appleseed, strolling through life scattering seeds.

Aphorism
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

I will keep my mouth closed about religion because you do not want to hear it and I now get it.

Keep the dialogue and dialectic about religion open. All sides need to have a voice. People need to talk about it. Just realize our own inherent ignorance in the face of the unknown, an ignorance we all share, and find comfort in the uncertainty.

I for one find no comfort in uncertainty. This discomfort is my primary driving force in my search for the truth. I want to know as many true things as possible and follow as few falsehoods as possible. I think the most frustrating thing in these discussions is when folks make unsubstantiated claims of truth with no facts to back them up. These claims are really just opinions and should be stated as so. I have no problem with anyone sharing their opinions. If you are not prepared to back up your claims, then dont make them and dont get mad when someone points it out. Getting butt hurt is a sign that you have been pressed beyond your comfort level and should be a sign that there is some area where your knowledge or understanding is lacking. Educating yourself would be the honest path to take and not just sticking harder to your cause.

adjensen
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

If a creator god were real he would necessarily have to be a physical entity. (Possibly beyond our understanding).

To the contrary, the creator of physical reality couldn't be a physical being, because, logically, the creation cannot contain the creator when it is created. Under Judaism and Christianity, yes, God is incomprehensible, at least in part.

I understand that this is the stance of theists but you are only making a claim. You and all others have yet to demonstrate how this could be the case.

reply to post by Woodcarver

I for one find no comfort in uncertainty. This discomfort is my primary driving force in my search for the truth. I want to know as many true things as possible and follow as few falsehoods as possible. I think the most frustrating thing in these discussions is when folks make unsubstantiated claims of truth with no facts to back them up. These claims are really just opinions and should be stated as so. I have no problem with anyone sharing their opinions. If you are not prepared to back up your claims, then dont make them and dont get mad when someone points it out. Getting butt hurt is a sign that you have been pressed beyond your comfort level and should be a sign that there is some area where your knowledge or understanding is lacking. Educating yourself would be the honest path to take and not just sticking harder to your cause.

In your search for truth I wager you will come up with nothing. There is no world-text to confirm what is true and what is not. It might be better to search for honesty and clarity.

reply to post by adjensen


If god is incomprehensible, how can you make so many claims about his properties?