The UFO Conference Promoters Do Little to Promote Serious Investigation

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posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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I have been looking closely at the prices and costs of these big UFO conferences and see a lot of money changing hands which could be brought to bare on studying the UFO phenomena but instead they are filling promoter's pockets.

Its a bit hard for UFOlogy to complain it doesn't have money to set up a tracking station in a UFO hotspot or properly handle and analyze evidence while the field willingly sees that money flow into the pockets of the purveyors of the "paratainment" industry.

Does anyone agree with this?
edit on 17-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


I believe you and I tossed this around a bit, but I think the focus should be not on confrencing about stuff we already know and have multitudes of long term undeniable evidence of...but of knowing and accepting all that evidence....what can or what should we DO with it?

Theyre here, have been here, we can accept that....but now what? Conferencing just rehashes what we already know by a preponderence of an astounding amount of evidence.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


UFOlogy hasn't been about UFOs for awhile.
It's a money making industry.
It's a circus sideshow set up to validate what gawkers WANT to hear/believe.

Certainly, there's some quite honorable, serious, and excellent researchers interested in the phenomenon, but, if they're not wearing clown shoes and telling people what they want to hear, selling wild stories, all their funding is personal out-of-pocket, and you won't typically see them at these conferences.

The people worth mention, I suspect, you won't find under the big top, but, diligently at work trying to capture reputable verifiable data.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


I agree. This carries over to the paranormal side as well. I can't help but to think there is more of a negative effect created (credibility wise) than the positive advancements made in either field. Inject enough "pop culture" into something and validity gets ushered out the door. Intentionally or not.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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Nobody's forcing anyone to attend and spend their money and the vast majority of these lectures and appearances are available on line for free a few weeks later, some of them actually very well done and more thought-provoking than anything on teevee or in a college lecture.

Conferences are a way of life for some people who like to mingle with 'famous' people and in some instances, like SciFi Conventions and Trekkie stuff, get dressed up in a ridiculous costume, get your picture taken and buy souvenirs. After a while it's the same people at the same conventions and you're getting together with old friends.

As far as doing more research, how much research exactly can you do when someone reports they saw some lights doing weird things? Unless there's a landing and you want to send someone out to take samples of burned grass and a few photos of a tripod shape impressed into the ground... what really good does it do? Add it to the thousands of other reported sightings and reported traces being left and meanwhile it is ignored by the MSM and most people ridicule it.

Until there's an out and out global sighting with a landing and something out of a Spielberg movie, nobody's gonna believe it and even then, many won't.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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JadeStar
I have been looking closely at the prices and costs of these big UFO conferences and see a lot of money changing hands


You forget the purpose of these "UFO" conferences....

To make money for certain people, that is the whole reason for them!



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 

They seem to take on the familiar slant of a religious revival. You wouldn't catch me making an appearance at either one.

Let me ask you this though: If offered a million dollars as a research grant, what would you do with it? What evidence do you suppose you could come up with? And, more importantly: What would you NOT come up with and why?



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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signalfire

As far as doing more research, how much research exactly can you do when someone reports they saw some lights doing weird things? Unless there's a landing and you want to send someone out to take samples of burned grass and a few photos of a tripod shape impressed into the ground... what really good does it do? Add it to the thousands of other reported sightings and reported traces being left and meanwhile it is ignored by the MSM and most people ridicule it.

Until there's an out and out global sighting with a landing and something out of a Spielberg movie, nobody's gonna believe it and even then, many won't.


Well you could compile reports and figure out where the active 'windows' are. Then you just roll in quietly with instruments and wait to see something weird. The UFOTOG guy had a good plan, hopefully he can follow through with it.

Also amen JadeStar. We need to expose and drive out the shady people, and start networking and collecting data. I'd like to see the major proponents of each school of thought get together and debate each other. Thats the only way I can see the subject advancing.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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How about lecturers on such Conferences? They are paid for their participation or making any money? Excluding of selling their books. I heard that organizers paying for flight and the hotel.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


Now who wouldn't pay big bucks to see and hear George Noory. Why the man has charisma and real star power; besides

being one of the foremost authority on all things "high strange"

I'd consider it an honor just to be in the same room with him!!


edit on 17-2-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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Does anyone agree with this?
reply to post by JadeStar
 


Totally. Ufology is its own worst enemy. I believe thats what eventually drove one of the greats, Jaques Valle from the subject. Just too many disparate groups with no clear direction or methods of approach. Too many big egos with pet theories that don't play well with others. Given this pathetic state of affairs, who in their right mind would want to invest serious money in getting to the bottom of it?



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:01 PM
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deadcalm



Does anyone agree with this?
reply to post by JadeStar[/let's more]

Totally. Ufology is its own worst enemy. I believe thats what eventually drove one of the greats, Jaques Valle from the subject. Just too many disparate groups with no clear direction or methods of approach. Too many big egos with pet theories that don't play well with others. Given this pathetic state of affairs, who in their right mind would want to invest serious money in getting to the bottom of it?



It feeds off of fanaticism which does much harm. It refuses to be questioned. It refuses to explain itself. And it refuses responsibility for its misgivings. Its own worst enemy? Absolutely...Just look at religion.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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Its all about the nutters. They sell the tickets. Serious u.f.o. researchers are rare. The sheeple love the nutters.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:36 PM
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i agree it is a money making proposition..BUT i met Jim Marrs there, and strongly recommend his books..Crossfire, Occulted History...this time met Timothy Good, Earth an Alien Enterprise, his book is just out, and i read it. excellent review and analysis of others reporting of alien encounters, and close up observation of space craft. both authors provide extensive references and footnotes for those with the fortitude to cross check original sources.
all the panel discussions and talks are recorded and available from Open Minds...in Tempe. at 15 per dvd. they had trailer carrying what looked like a large questar scope.
I spent only 15 bucks and had lunch at the Indian casino...and got a lot of interesting info. the panel discussion i attended had two government researchers, and two independents (one Good). hearing the gov ops get corralled by the independents simply citing evidence was worth it.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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From what I get, it appears such conferences are about book and video sales (or summary lectures on what those books and videos are about), and drumming up the media in regards to getting air time on the Ancient Alie-- *cough*... Erm... Histo- Bwhaahahaa!..lol...
Ahem... Pardon me... One of those entertainment channels on cable TV. And of course you have your purveyors and fans of tie-dye shirts, various alien themed art, knick-knacks, and bobble-heads. (The merch category probably being the most fun to browse and spend money on. At least the bigger events are likely to have them.)

As for that question about what somebody could do with one million grant to research UFOs?

I'm sure it'd be possible to spend at least a year in a known hotspot area with an RV equipped with a cinetheolodite with decent lenses, spectrographic recorder, and IR mode capability using a modern HD camera backend. A cinetheolodite is the kind of camera used to track rocket launches all the way from the pad and up into orbit, so telegraphic zoom shouldn't be a problem. A half-decent one should get at least something better than a few pixel dot during daytime or few pixel light during night. Not only that but it records other data based on where it's aimed and focused, that will give an idea of how big and far away something is. (Or how fast it goes, if you can track it going straight for long enough.) Including a spectrograph somewhere in the optic set will also give some idea of what any light source is. (Spotlight? Plasma? Jet exhaust?) Perhaps some kind of radio scanning gear, and some stuff that measures magnetic fields or other radiation for any other incidental non-visual data. The rest of that million would also cover expenses for a couple of people working on the investigation, a rotation of some sort will be needed to keep watch because its going to be boring 99% of the time. Not much huge profit for any individual, since food, fuel, hotel, and incidental expenses for the number of people needed to do it right will make the money go pretty fast. I'm trying to be reasonable too, people can only camp with the RV so much at a time before burnout - so I expect to cover personal vehicles going to and from the on-site RV location while helping things run smoothly.

I know it sounds like more fun to be chasing different places and that kind of thing (as most UFO shows do), but the odds may not work so well. If you want opportunities to gather hard data, it's likely better to wait it out while heavily geared out in a spot with a (supposedly) high hit rate. Stories are nice, and post analysis of various recordings is only so-so. I'm somewhat of a sceptic on the subject, so I would like to get closest to the scientific approach while having the means able to gather hard data.

Funny how I say more about how I'd plan to research if funded than my opinon on these conferences. But really, it seems a short sentence or two sums these things up.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


As an avid UFO believer, I agree with you somewhat. But I must ask just what sort of fact-finding org would you think that would have the barest chance of success? When I came to Austin in 1978, there was a member org called Project Starlight International. It had a fine suite in a modern building in Austin and a full-time (sympathetic) astronomer on the staff. Out NW of Austin in the Hill Country it had a facility to observe and record. It was backed with a wad of money initially. It evaporated because, supposedly, it offered a time exposure photo taken by a small telescope of a UFO streaking across the night sky and making a 90-degree turn. Again, supposedly, it was later proven that the streak was from a typical satellite and that the camera had been rotated 90-degrees upon the telescope.

It is naïve, in my estimation to think that an independent investigation group can prove anything about UFOs. Similar efforts have been done and have petered out after recording SOMETHINGS, but what exactly were they? UFOs, swamp gas, secret exotic domestic craft, ...what?

The is a chool in Finland that records hundreds of apparent UFOs with their on-site facilities, but what have they proven with their hundreds of tapes? Nothing, except something strange is moving in the air in that area under observation. If you read the history of UFOs, back in the fifties there was a group of scientists that got equipment together and went out into the US Rockies to settle the question because they were unhappy that the government (supposedly) had not done that sort of leg work and arrived at a definite answer. That affair is detailed to some extent by Capt. Edward Ruppelt in his The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects. Ruppelt also tells how the Air Force has special gun camera lenses fitted to fighter jets. The lenses were to obtain the light spectra of the visible UFOs. The concept intended to determine something definite about the UFOs in terms of what would emit such spectra. Ruppelt never gives that ambitious effort much credit for being effective or in releasing a single bit of noteworthy data. But surely, facts were learned but the government can and does keep deep secrets. As far as Ruppelt's book goes, it deserves being read with more than a bit of skepticism about the real story of Project Blue Book and the handling of the whole UFO situation. After all, he did work directly for the government and while the book was a best seller and a prime book-of-the-month club selection, it was definitely not the work of a whistleblower, quite the opposite, it was part of a careful white wash of the early years of the UFO enigma.

Any effort not in the direct control of the government via one way or another, will not be allowed to investigate in earnest. That never has been the case and it never will. The government already knows all that superficial stuff about UFOs and considers it their private domain, and the last thing is some semi-official outfit trying to find something new to report.

Really, again, I admonish you to get a basket load of the very old UFO books at used book stores and read the development of the UFO history first hand. I view the old books as valuable historical documents, valuable for their contents and the fact that at some point in the future they will be valuable to collectors for being ground-breaking books.



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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I guess my big problem here is that, here we are, on a site which promotes independent thought, questioning officialdom and the mainstream on a myriad number of topics.

However does anyone not realize that the UFOlogy cottage industry has by and large been accepted into the media mainstream?

What is it's purpose?

Who profits?

Whose purpose does Modern UFOlogy serve?

Look how many TV shows feature the same talking heads who, by the way will be at the next UFO meet up, usually for a not so small fee.

Yet NO ONE seems to QUESTION MAINSTREAM UFOLOGY and the cottage industry it has produced.

I do not begrudge authors for touring the circuit. Everyone has a right to make a living.

I DO begrudge the people behind the scenes, the promoters, who profit from the whole field selling everything from "alien meditation crystals" which are basically just pieces of quartz to alien blow up dolls.

This, from a field which resembles a cargo cult more than a serious scientific pursuit.

Think about it:

Cargo cults built planes and other things out of wood sticks to mimic the "gods" who dropped food on their lands. Those planes might have looked pretty good but they would never take flight because they lacked the basic fundamentals of flight in terms of materials and application, as well as an engine.

UFOlogy promoters set up elaborate meet ups which they call a "symposium" or "conference" in the scientific sense, while at the same time doing little more than telling the same stories over again to an all too willing to believe public. Unlike at an actual science conference, there is seldom any evidence presented in support of the stories other than anecdotal evidence, nor are there references to peer-reviewed published papers or even a counter speaker presenting evidence to the contrary.

In short, there is -no critical thought- involved. It's seen as "negative" or "hostile" to the field.

The plane of UFOlogy will NEVER take flight, NEVER get any closer to the truth and NEVER be respected as a legitimate scientific field if it lacks the fundamentals and basis of the scientific method.

Unfortunately people like Dr. James E. McDonald, Dr J Allen Hynek, Dr. Donald Menzel, Dr. Jacques Valle, Marjorie Fish, Terrence Dickinson and Dr. Peter Sturrock are either dead or have left the UFO field having been run off by the "UFOlogy as a Religion" crowd.

Is it any wonder that NIDS and Bigelow were secretive? What legitimate scientist wants to be associated with what UFOlogy has become. It's not about the subject or the idea we may not be alone either. Most scientists doubt that we are alone, it's more a question of whether we have ever been visited and where the aliens might be.

It's not about the subject matter being "taboo" it's about the people who wear the UFO hat often being ridiculous.

Now it seems UFOlogy and its conferences amount to little more than a bunch of people gathering to feel like they are doing research by forking over some cash to listen to people tell some pretty tall tales while the few people who are doing interesting stuff in terms of gathering usable scientific data,rather than just sighting reports or stories, (ie: Project Hessdalen) go largely unheard of, mostly unfunded and for the most part, unknown.

It's cargo cult science and engineering.

Which is fine for entertainment, but for true investigative science, not so much.

Do not complain about lack of resources or respect if the mainstream UFO field can not realize its wasting resources that could be better spent on investigating the phenomena.

Recently, I actually heard some British guy on Chase Klotzke's "Project White Paper" radio show questioning why big corporate donors or rich people who have had sightings do not donate to UFOlogy research while moments earlier he was attacking science and the scientific method.

(facepalm)

The promoters are smiling all the way to the bank.
edit on 18-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


Well said!!!



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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signalfire
Nobody's forcing anyone to attend and spend their money and the vast majority of these lectures and appearances are available on line for free a few weeks later, some of them actually very well done and more thought-provoking than anything on teevee or in a college lecture.

Conferences are a way of life for some people who like to mingle with 'famous' people and in some instances, like SciFi Conventions and Trekkie stuff, get dressed up in a ridiculous costume, get your picture taken and buy souvenirs. After a while it's the same people at the same conventions and you're getting together with old friends.

As far as doing more research, how much research exactly can you do when someone reports they saw some lights doing weird things?


This....

Project Hessdalen

and this....

Using Multistatic Passive Radar for Real-Time Detection of UFO's in the Near Earth Environment - Peter B. Davenport, National UFO Reporting Center, NICAP Papers 2004

Beyond this I have proposed examining Dr. Roger Leir's "alien implants" which he claims are of extraterrestrial origin due to some tests he had done. However in order to establish that beyond doubt a look at their isotopic ratios and most importantly, cross referencing them with The Meteorite Information Database would need to be done. Also one could have a scanning tunneling microscope examine these "implants" for nanoscale engineering.

If one can produce both unearthly isotopic ratios AND artificiality in terms of nanoscale or other engineering then they can make a very good case that these are possibly alien artifacts. A case that could be rigorously tested in academia and possibly become one of the greatest discoveries in the world if verified.

Another idea would to be a DNA cross correlation of "abductees" for similarities, or even examining their DNA itself for signs of extraterrestrial intervention. See: Genomic SETI


That's if you want to actually gather scientifically useful information, rather than just fanciful stories.

We live in an age of huge databases, high speed computers, low cost electronics, increasingly low cost genetic sequencing, etc. And most importantly, enormous -mainstream- interest in the question of who we might be sharing the universe with.

It's not like science is stuck in 1955 but it seems that UFOlogy and your view of what is possible within it is.

All of this of course takes money but wouldn't it be better to get to the truth, regardless of what that truth is than simply accept stories at face value, with little if any definitive evidence?

Much better in my opinion than those hundreds of thousands of dollars made by some UFO conference promoters be spent on actually supporting the pursuit they claim to support......
edit on 18-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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I have a small state of the art video Production company and this spring I intend to make a documentary of any and all high strangeness
that occurs in and around the San Luis Valley of Southern Colorado, Northern New Mexico.

www.ourstrangeplanet.com...

Should I be compensated for my efforts if I discover and film something like ufo, bigfoot, triangle etc.?





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