Pope opens critical week for reforms

reply to post by adjensen


you are not right for the Roman catholic church. It is generally known among the non catholics as that.
It is called also Sanctae Romane Ecclesiae or S.R.E. when a new pope is elected. I don't mind the SRE. I mind the way it is governed in this historical moment and I hope it changes, soon!!!

Diagram, ok I have other data Wikipedia. I will not spend time to check what its source data were. Data do differ. Perhaps all those 1 bln+ catholics go every Sunday on mass, yes? Or we have to cut the number in half or one third.

The question before the pope is nothing less than SURVIVAL of SRE and I really hope they understand that.

Alexandria library books might have been presented by "christian" emperor Theodosius who repented for other mass murders before St Ambrosius of Milan. Perhaps priceless documents are still inside the secret Vatican archive. Including documents of Jesus' time. I expect the time they will be made public. There is a precedent in discovery ancient texts of the Bible by the Jews, "our older brothers in faith", as called by St. John Paul II.

Communion is not for adulterer's, it is for pro-abortion politicians.
The OP makes a great point.

reply to post by 2012newstart

you are not right for the Roman catholic church. It is generally known among the non catholics as that.

Who cares what non-Catholics call it? If I start calling you "John" or "Bill", does that mean that your name changes?

The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council's official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.

Similarly, nowhere in the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council will you find the term Roman Catholic. Pope Paul VI signed all the documents of the Second Vatican Council as "I, Paul. Bishop of the Catholic Church." Simply that -- Catholic Church. There are references to the Roman curia, the Roman missal, the Roman rite, etc., but when the adjective Roman is applied to the Church herself, it refers to the Diocese of Rome! (Source)

Perhaps all those 1 bln+ catholics go every Sunday on mass, yes? Or we have to cut the number in half or one third.

If you're looking for actual attendance versus membership, I'd still say that the Catholics outnumber the rest -- unlike Protestant churches, attendance at weekly Mass and on holy days is mandatory (widely ignored, of course, but most churches are pretty full during weekend Masses.) At my old United Methodist church, most weekends maybe 10% of the congregation attended church service.

reply to post by 2012newstart

Perhaps priceless documents are still inside the secret Vatican archive. Including documents of Jesus' time. I expect the time they will be made public.

You do know that the "Secret Vatican Archives" have been open to scholars since the 1800s, right?

Vatican Secret Archives (wiki)
Vatican Secret Archives (Vatican web site)

reply to post by adjensen


Oh I bet those ones are not listed even among the secret ones...Perhaps they are buried under the tomb of Peter.

Attendance is at all times low in Europe. Scandal and sex issues beat at it hard.

In USA they call everything Latin with the word Roman. Latin rite is Roman rite. I think Roman Catholic Church is not offensive name for itself, or is it?

You'd better address more historical issues, and say whether or not you support the papal move to change. As you wish, I don't care whether you support it or not or whether you will say it or not. But what we talk now is less interesting.

I want to end it with the official announcement in latin in that dramatic night when the smoke surprisingly for many was white. New history, new page, or you name it.

www.scoop.co.nz...

The cardinal proto-deacon Jean-Louis Tauran made the solemn announcement to the people at 8.12 p.m. from the external loggia of the Hall of Blessings of the Vatican Basilica following the white smoke which occurred at 7.06 p.m.

Following are the words pronounced by Cardinal Tauran:

Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum;

habemus Papam:

Eminentissimum ac Reverendissimum Dominum,

Dominum Georgium Marium

Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalem Bergoglio

qui sibi nomen imposuit Franciscum.

[I announce to you with great joy;

We have a Pope;

The most eminent and most reverend Lord

Lord Jorge Mario

Cardinal of Holy Roman Church Bergoglio

Who has taken the name Francis.]

reply to post by 2012newstart

Oh I bet those ones are not listed even among the secret ones...Perhaps they are buried under the tomb of Peter.

Maybe they have a double secret secret archive!

Look, people have suspicions about organizations like the Vatican, and when they hear "Secret Archive", they jump to all sorts of ridiculous conclusions. But the fact of the matter is that, if you have a legitimate need to some Papal document from 800AD or something, apply to them and they'll let you see it. They put a minimal "bar to entry" in there because they don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to wander in and paw over original documents that are priceless.

But all of that "holy grail" adventurism is nothing but nonsense, invented by people who want to peddle books to a gullible public.

You'd better address more historical issues, and say whether or not you support the papal move to change.

What, specifically, changes are you referring to? If there's a reasonable theological argument for something, I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but if it's a matter of the church changing its teaching to reflect societal values, well, I'm not a moral relativist, so I would not be in favour of that (and have said so here on numerous occasions.)

I just watched the election night of pope Francis, as if lived it again all that emotion! I wish the pope much strength and God's grace for the most difficult week of his pontificate!
I will not be able to comment every next word of Vatican, but my prayers go with those 8 cardinals and the pope with his secretary of state who want to make the change happen. Perhaps they are accompanied by prayers of great many people far not only devote catholics.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I really wish we could have at least ONE forum in here that mentions Catholicism without that topic coming up. There have been rebuttals here ad nauseam. However, to address your point:

A document obtained by The Associated Press on Friday shows Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for sexually molesting children.

The statistics for 2011 and 2012 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received and the number of trials it had authorized.

While it's not clear why the numbers spiked in 2011, it could be because 2010 saw a new explosion in the number of cases reported in the media in Europe and beyond.

The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting and was compiled to help the Holy See defend itself before a U.N. committee this week in Geneva.

More here...

reply to post by IsidoreOfSeville


Fantastic. Glad he's doing something, though I see arrests haven't picked up. At least the church is letting people go to the police now. Still, too little, too late. I left that institution years ago, don't expect me back. And please, I hate the term non-practicing Catholic or Christian. I never had a choice in getting baptized.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

At least the church is letting people go to the police now.

That has always been the case -- people chose to report it to the church, and, until official policy was established (generally, in the 1990s,) that was as far as it went, but people could always have reported abuse to the police. The difference now is that, if it is reported to the church, the church tells the person explicitly to report it.

As someone who works with youth in the Catholic church, I can tell you that their controls today are pretty tight. I can't even sit at a table with my Confirmation students in a crowded room without another adult being there with me.

I left that institution years ago, don't expect me back.

Nothing personal, but why would anyone expect you back or care if you didn't come back? You're your own person, you make your own decisions, and if you've decided that Christianity isn't for you, that's between you and God when the day comes (if it does, of course.)

Hope also the Ecclesiastical Masonry does not win over Vatican Again, as they did with the killing (poisoning with overdose) of pope John Paul I, with the stealing of the real Fatima secret and of so many other things. If you think Middle ages are over, think again. Now it is not the Inquisition, it is the Ecclesiastical Masonry. Actually the pope Jesuit has a very little time frame to make the difference. Or it will be everything done for the once great catholic church. As Malachi predicted it.
They made us fools. Let they stop making us fools anymore. God sees.
I am not sedevacantist conspirator. I want the real deeds. Let see what is on the tabe in the 1 year old pontificate of Francis. There is no more time or to blame past administrations. he had all tools at his disposal and enough time. Let we see the difference. Not in October Synod. Now, before the Easter.

As I understand from the initial article in this thread, the top cardinals now talk of money. What more important indeed? Especially if they have to feed 1 bln poor? Still, they'd better talk of Miracle too. A miracle promised by countless apparitions. Were they true or not? Were they some kind of delusion or not? Francis bypassed Fatima with elegant move of self-consecration prayer, yet it didn't go unnoticed by the conservatives. Isn't it better just to say the things the way they are? What is hidden so much? 100 years are enough of waiting the catholic church to reform itself. After the inquisition in spain was de facto closed by Napoleonic wars. It is a time the catholic church to realize it has responsibility before the people as well as before God

Why don't they say if Garabandal is true, with Great Warning, Mracle and Chastisement of planetary character? Why Sr Agnes Sasagawa of Akita is silenced more than Lucia of Fatima was? Akita is approved apparition and speaks of fire from heaven. Yet the seer is totally silenced. Why Maria Esperanza's lengthy locutions are not published? She talked of politics, even contemporary events such as 9/11 and Iraq, terrorism. She warned. She was stigmatic too. As other seers are. What is it that is hidden as modern secrets, to add to the ancient secrets from Alexandria library and other sources that date back to the Annunaki time of Sumer civilization? Let call a spade a spade.

I have the feeling we are all in a grand theater with actors who change roles but the theater is still the same. How to comment John Paul II's words in Fulda that if there is coming catastrophic event with millions people to die from one moment to another, there is no more need to tell it to anyone. What??? And that from the man who made substantial efforts in tearing down the communism and is now on the fast track to sainthood? Would they please be more precise when it comes to our future, to my future, your future? It is not their private issue! Not a secret archive anymore allowed to secluded sect of enlightened people. Any shame for the billion wide population, that already is no more illiterate?

Frankly I expected Francis to speak out the truth in the first DAYS of his pontificate, as a new man entering old quarters who would be naturally very interested to know all of that, if he didn't know it before. I supported him from Day 1 in this forum. Now it is the first year, almost. If he fails, the catholic hierarchy fails together with him. I doubt it the catholic Very diverse church will survive as One after such a fail. And that is not the worst to happen, btw. The worst, they just don't tell us about.

reply to post by 2012newstart


How about the pope giving that vast wealth to the poor? How about the vatican releasing all of the hidden information it holds, simply to keep you in bondage? Truely Jesus said the path os narrow that leads to heaven, and your popes won't be there. I see thousands of people gather before the pope, a MAN, in WORSHIP. Which is ok to catholics, because you glorify people and pray to saints. Revelations 13 defines your church as a Harlot. Read it and pray to the FATHER, who Jesus commanded you to pray to, that he would open your eyes.

stok3th3fir3
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

How about the vatican releasing all of the hidden information it holds, simply to keep you in bondage?

I answer you, and also I elaborate for the other readers. Thanks for your post!

I think what Rome hided for millenia were the ancient extraterrestrial contact with Annunaki that shaped human history. Pls refer to Ancient Aliens. The books of Sumer now made available thanks to secular (not atheist) authors as Zecharia Sitchin, were kept in secret from the so called Christendom. Instead, the much later written book of Genesis was taken painstakingly as the only (scientific?) foundation of all Christian thought of creation and cosmology. That led to disastrous consequences of denying known facts from Ancient Greece of Earth being a globe and circling around the Sun. Perhaps that all was burned - for the masses, and preserved - for the enlightened ones. It strikes when we have a burned man astronomer in the relatively "modern" 17th century because of his scientific investigation of other worlds - Giordano Bruno. It strikes when the first man to look thru telescopes in modern times, Galileo, was judged and imprisoned. But it hurts even more when those histric errors of the Roman Catholic Church are not denounced loudly in our contemporary time. Instead they are sidelined and even tried to be excused by some "fervent catholics". Pope Benedict didn't use the occasion to make a clear cut in the Rome University La Sapienza when asked exactly about his position on Galileo. People want real answers, not scholastic elaborated multi-page documents that no one will read in first place.

Let notice Alexandria library was burnt several different times in history, so there were books left after Theodosius' burn out. Certainly there were books taken by Theodosius' secret police, if I may say in that way. Otherwise he would be a full idiot, and he didn't leave such an image in history. He left an image of a cruel but clever "christian emperor" who knew how to rule the masses with iron fist and how to deal with the rising church. A man who slaughtered thousands innocent Christians in Thessaloniki and then "repented" to St Ambrosius of Milan (his headquarters were in Milan, not in Rome).

Why not talk about that? What did the Church know in those centuries, while inherited pagan Rome palaces? Perhaps they knew the earth is round because the Romans knew it. Perhaps much was preserved, not in one official secret archive that is quoted today, but in really secretive places that no one mortal could ever enter unless he was among the enlightened ones.

How was possible the inventions of Leonardo to ever occur? Unless we assume Leonardo was ET/Annunaki/ or someone enlightened by them, or by their well preserved texts. You cannot just draw a sketch of a submarine in that time. And not to be burnt for that because it might be taken for the sea monster i.e. the devil by fanatic clergy and monks.

I can't say to what extend Peter and the other apostles were exposed to that reality. They lived in completely different circumstances and they were simple people, not illuminati. It is logical to assume they knew nothing of that, neither they imagined what would happen with the church they established. Jesus the Lord himself had the chance to talk to them and show them angels (ET) different from the Annunaki. I don't know what Jesus told them. It was erased from historical record, except for the moral teaching in the gospels we all know (that was never kept by the way).

May be the early church of year 100 or so was still preserved clean. Not so later, when the Gospels were re-written quite brutally. You can't have 3 identical gospels, written by 3 different persons, language and place, can you? The physical documents do not date back to the apostles' time. The earliest found physical documents date back to 2nd century, late 2nd century. I provided a link in another thread. Apocalypse of John preserved only chapter 1 and 2:1 from late 2nd century is the earliest known physical document of the much debated book of Apocalypse. Here is Papyrus 95 en.wikipedia.org... John 5:26-29, 36-38 from 3rd century. Here is James 1:15-18 Papyrus 23 en.wikipedia.org... from 3rd century.


I don't write anti-catholic. I write in support of the true catholic church, because what I write for most part are provable facts. Sure I have shortcomings too, sorry in advance. Also I do not intend to repeat things over and over again and to receive only answers on selected portions of paragraphs with tons of "catholic defense" that does not address much of what I've written. I don't believe that kind of answering the hard evidence presented will do anything good to the currently critical situation of the Catholic church' hierarchy.

Actually the world was told much of that via secular sources. Ancient Aliens trump on the TVs all over the globe int he last several years. The people who wanted to know it, already know it. It remains the negative heritage to those who made the humanity fools for centuries. They stand before a vital choice of their own future: whether to continue their centuries old FAILED policy and to remain in history as such, or to change it. As for now, I can see only words and no real deeds.

reply to post by 2012newstart


So what is the difference between annunaki an angel? I believe them to be one and the same. We also know that the gospels weren't re-written by the catholic church because they point to the catholic church as corrupt. If catholisism re-wrote the gospels, they would be rittled with pray to marry, MAN can absolve your sins, store up your treasures on earth, and don't obey YAHUWAHs laws. The gospel of Mathew was written in HEBREW and is a first hand account of the life of YAHUSHUA. Ancient aliens is PROPAGANDA so that those without understanding will discount the bible as fact. As you said, aliens=angels. Well Annunaki=alien. Catholicism removed YAHUWAHs name from the bible and they have also removed books, but the spirit of YAH cannot be stiffled, and he is revealing these thongs to many.

reply to post by stok3th3fir3



“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

IsidoreOfSeville
reply to post by stok3th3fir3

 

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

Well thats a really good LIE sir. Thank you.

reply to post by stok3th3fir3


Seriously, in all charity, please educate yourself in regards to what Catholicism teaches. Talk to a priest, go to Catholic sites. Don't just regurgitate what you've been told by other non-Catholics. Heck, even do a quick search on these forums and you'll find many of your "facts" have been refuted over and over.

IsidoreOfSeville
reply to post by stok3th3fir3

 

Seriously, in all charity, please educate yourself in regards to what Catholicism teaches. Talk to a priest, go to Catholic sites. Don't just regurgitate what you've been told by other non-Catholics. Heck, even do a quick search on these forums and you'll find many of your "facts" have been refuted over and over.

That is statement from ignorance sir. I still find it funny that you quote a man rather then scripture, because that is where your heart lies, in MEN. Last time I went to a catholic church the preist said he snuck my grandfather in the back door of heaven. I will never pray to Marry or any exalted person for I am a son of YAH, so I will do as YAHUSHUA comanded and pray to my FATHER. Catholicism exalts people and have brought many into slavery and death. REPENT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND!