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Minimum Wage Increase...Yes or No?

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posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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Before I go off on a tangent, the main question here is should the minimum wage be increased to $10.10 as the dems want, left at $7.25 and the reps want, or something else entirely.

By my rough math, $10.10 - $7.25 = $2.85 more per hour, per minimum wage employee.
At a 40 hour work week, that would be $2.85 x 40 = $114 increase per minimum wage employee per week.
At 52 weeks in a year (yes...I know) that would be $114 x 52 = $5928 increase per minimum wage employee per year.
In 2012, there were 3.6 million people at minimum wage...so $5928 x 3,600,000 = $21,340,800,000

If I'm not missing something, that is 21 BILLION DOLLARS. Where exactly is that money coming from? Obviously employers will be paying it, but are we seriously talking about forcing employers to pay 21 billion dollars more to employees and taking that from their income? If so...OK. Lets go with that.

The simplistic argument is this. An employee that makes $7.25 for their employer per hour creates a break even situation as they earn $7.25 per hour. Again...that isn't true due to benefits, paid sick/personal days, taxes, etc...but lets go with it.

My opinion is that of the 3.6 million making minimum wage, the majority don't make much more than that (if any) for their employer. They are usually the younger people, temporary employees and lesser skilled employees. So...if that is all accurate...aren't the dems simply taking money from businesses to increase the pay of some people? In other words...redistribution?

Now, if all employers lose this 21 billion, what will they do? Maybe fire people and demand more from those retained? Maybe charge more for goods and services? Maybe cut back on advertising and other expenses? Regardless...doesn't that mean less money in the economy?

So in summary...why should employers be forced to pay people more than what they make for the employer? Why do we want to pay more for the same goods and services? Why do we want employer utilized businesses (advertising for example) to lose business? I understand $7.25 per hour is tough to live on...but...shouldn't the "fix" be to help such people to be worth more, than simply paid more? Help make them trained better where they can earn their employer $20 per hour and therefore be worth and (hopefully) paid more?

I've been there. Minimum wage in my 40's. It wasn't fun, but we survived and now I'm back to where I should be. I didn't use welfare or other handouts and had a reason to work harder to earn more...and I did. Why isn't correcting the problem the solution rather than putting a bandaid on it? My guess? VOTES! Which means this isn't even for the people...it is just another "look what we did for you...vote for us". Regardless that this transfers the problems next door, but doesn't make them go away.

Again...you need to solve the problem. Not put a bandaid on the problem and hope. And we definitely DON'T NEED POLITICIANS BUYING OUR VOTES just to save their high-price jobs. I hope we aren't really that dumb.

My vote? Keep the minimum wage and offer better education and training. Internships for out-of-work individuals and help with a career...not just a job.
edit on 2/17/2014 by WeAreAWAKE because: Forgot my suggestion




posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


first there is a math correction in your numbers, its not 21 trillion, its 21 billion, we waste that on toilet paper every year. Ok, I will keep reading your post now. but that needed corrected.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by camain
 


Already done...typing too fast



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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Be that as it may, minimum wage is ruining middle class pay.

Minimum wage goes up, middle management pay does not.

So while i work my middle class management job min wage sneaks up on my pay while mine doesnt move. Im thinking of getting a job with less pay (not by a lot) and far less responsibility because WHY should i try any harder for just pounds an hour difference?!?!

Of course the CEOs and such can give themselves what ever bonuses they like to make up for it and thats a club thats VERY hard to get into.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


Agreed...and that is part of my opinion. If you bring all minimum wage workers up, you effectively bring everyone else (the majority) down. When the prices go up to cover the new minimum wage, you won't get a price break. If the government cared about being fair...that should be a percentage raise for everyone...including that CEO. But fair isn't in their agenda.

Another example: You get a speeding ticket and have to pay $200. Shouldn't that be a percentage of income? It is meant to be a deterrent to speeding but does nothing when you make $2 million a year and is devastating when you make $20K.
edit on 2/17/2014 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


Quite true.

I dont really like fines, they always seemed completely slanted in the favor of those that can simply afford it. Id rather see fines GONE than a percent of pay introduced.

You do a crime beyond your "warnings" you go to jail like everyone else for anything else.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


But then...we pay for them to be in jail
Horrible cycle we are caught in, isn't it?



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


The price of goods and services would also increase to pay for the increase in minimum wage. So the cost of living would increase for everyone.

The folks making minimum wage won't see any benefit as they'll be paying more for the same items they were buying before.

The middle class will shrink because they will be simply paying more.

Unemployment would increase.

Yeah, don't really see a bright side.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 06:50 AM
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Costs increase more than just the pay increase. Many taxes such as unemployment are based on percentage of pay so when pay goes up so do taxes. The business has to cover all those increasing costs. Increasing minimum wage doesn't just affect the minimum wage workers either. Say you have one guy making $7.50 and one making $11.50. When the bottom guy gets a $3 raise the top guy will want it as well don't you think?
A Big Mac is $3.50 now I just wonder if raising pay scales will make a Big Mac $4.75. If it does then the raise didn't do anybody any good, somebody will still be broke. This debate will go on forever I think.



This link is an interesting read.
www.nfib.com...



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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Would 10.10 put most min wage employees above the "poverty level"?

If above the poverty level, do you qualify for things like Medicaid or would you have to actually pay for obamacare?

How about taxes?
Will you make "enough" to pay, or will you get it all back?

Do you think they want to help out the little guy, or do you think they want a couple million people to buy into their fascist health insurance program?



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 07:54 AM
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Think of the economy as a car that's burning oil. Raising the minimum wage is like adding a quart. It needs to be done to keep it going, but it doesn't change the fact that you need a complete overhaul. You'll just have to do it again later, and the problem only gets worse.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:06 AM
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Hoosierdaddy71
Costs increase more than just the pay increase. Many taxes such as unemployment are based on percentage of pay so when pay goes up so do taxes. The business has to cover all those increasing costs. Increasing minimum wage doesn't just affect the minimum wage workers either. Say you have one guy making $7.50 and one making $11.50. When the bottom guy gets a $3 raise the top guy will want it as well don't you think?
A Big Mac is $3.50 now I just wonder if raising pay scales will make a Big Mac $4.75. If it does then the raise didn't do anybody any good, somebody will still be broke. This debate will go on forever I think.



This link is an interesting read.
www.nfib.com...


or instead of raising the cost of the big mac the company could take a hit on their profits instead
and if they do raise the cost the customers should boycott and refuse to do business and force them to take responsibility for the cost rather than passing it on

but the fact is raising minimum wage alone wont do much
there need to be unilateral changes across the board to make that effective including much higher taxes on domestic business utilizing foreign labor as well as other things to bring jobs back
and higher standards for education so that the work force is able to fill the jobs that are already available as well as be prepared for a future that is going to be largely automated

this whole "if we raise minimum wage theyll raise prices so we should just let them continue getting away with it" rhetoric is nonsense
edit on 17-2-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:07 AM
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bjax9er
Would 10.10 put most min wage employees above the "poverty level"?


I guess that depends how they do math. As we know, the unemployment rate is completely wrong so I would guess the people may be out of poverty, but still just as broke.

I would like the unemployment rate to be the total gross income made in the US, divided by all eligible workers. That way, we could actually tell how bad things are instead of listening to some "talking points".



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:08 AM
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VictorVonDoom
Think of the economy as a car that's burning oil. Raising the minimum wage is like adding a quart. It needs to be done to keep it going, but it doesn't change the fact that you need a complete overhaul. You'll just have to do it again later, and the problem only gets worse.


And correct me if I'm wrong...the longer you put off the overhaul, the more expensive it is and you still had to pay for the extra oil. It doesn't correct the problem and ends up costing more.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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sirhumperdink

Hoosierdaddy71
Costs increase more than just the pay increase. Many taxes such as unemployment are based on percentage of pay so when pay goes up so do taxes. The business has to cover all those increasing costs. Increasing minimum wage doesn't just affect the minimum wage workers either. Say you have one guy making $7.50 and one making $11.50. When the bottom guy gets a $3 raise the top guy will want it as well don't you think?
A Big Mac is $3.50 now I just wonder if raising pay scales will make a Big Mac $4.75. If it does then the raise didn't do anybody any good, somebody will still be broke. This debate will go on forever I think.



This link is an interesting read.
www.nfib.com...


or instead of raising the cost of the big mac the company could take a hit on their profits instead
and if they do raise the cost the customers should boycott and refuse to do business and force them to take responsibility for the cost rather than passing it on


Or more likely...that franchise goes out of business, everyone is fired and gets the true minimum wage. $0.00
The cost of minimum wage isn't the responsibility of an employer. It is dictated by the government who doesn't care if it is realistic or even possible. They don't investigate and put together reports to see if raising the minimum wage is possible. They pull a number out of their asses and write it down...and do it for the votes. As long as they get the votes, they don't care if every business goes away.

And then they will spin it..."Big Macs weren't good for you anyway."



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:21 AM
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WeAreAWAKE

sirhumperdink

Hoosierdaddy71
Costs increase more than just the pay increase. Many taxes such as unemployment are based on percentage of pay so when pay goes up so do taxes. The business has to cover all those increasing costs. Increasing minimum wage doesn't just affect the minimum wage workers either. Say you have one guy making $7.50 and one making $11.50. When the bottom guy gets a $3 raise the top guy will want it as well don't you think?
A Big Mac is $3.50 now I just wonder if raising pay scales will make a Big Mac $4.75. If it does then the raise didn't do anybody any good, somebody will still be broke. This debate will go on forever I think.



This link is an interesting read.
www.nfib.com...


or instead of raising the cost of the big mac the company could take a hit on their profits instead
and if they do raise the cost the customers should boycott and refuse to do business and force them to take responsibility for the cost rather than passing it on


Or more likely...that franchise goes out of business, everyone is fired and gets the true minimum wage. $0.00
The cost of minimum wage isn't the responsibility of an employer. It is dictated by the government who doesn't care if it is realistic or even possible. They don't investigate and put together reports to see if raising the minimum wage is possible. They pull a number out of their asses and write it down...and do it for the votes. As long as they get the votes, they don't care if every business goes away.

And then they will spin it..."Big Macs weren't good for you anyway."


except they would still be turning a profit so that would be extremely unlikely (mcdonalds alone posted profits of $10.9 billion in 2013.... with walmart pulling in $127.22 billion.... so yes they certainly can afford it)
and if they want to close up shop good for them
what do you think will happen to these job providers and their wealth that was made off the backs of minimum wage labor when those jobs dry up and there are millions unemployed? the government can only take up so much slack
when joe the fry cooks unemployment runs out and his stomach is growling who do you think he will be cursing
what happens when there are millions like joe all out of work and all hungry so some investors and ceos could make a few million more a year?

edit on 17-2-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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sirhumperdink

WeAreAWAKE

sirhumperdink

Hoosierdaddy71
Costs increase more than just the pay increase. Many taxes such as unemployment are based on percentage of pay so when pay goes up so do taxes. The business has to cover all those increasing costs. Increasing minimum wage doesn't just affect the minimum wage workers either. Say you have one guy making $7.50 and one making $11.50. When the bottom guy gets a $3 raise the top guy will want it as well don't you think?
A Big Mac is $3.50 now I just wonder if raising pay scales will make a Big Mac $4.75. If it does then the raise didn't do anybody any good, somebody will still be broke. This debate will go on forever I think.



This link is an interesting read.
www.nfib.com...


or instead of raising the cost of the big mac the company could take a hit on their profits instead
and if they do raise the cost the customers should boycott and refuse to do business and force them to take responsibility for the cost rather than passing it on


Or more likely...that franchise goes out of business, everyone is fired and gets the true minimum wage. $0.00
The cost of minimum wage isn't the responsibility of an employer. It is dictated by the government who doesn't care if it is realistic or even possible. They don't investigate and put together reports to see if raising the minimum wage is possible. They pull a number out of their asses and write it down...and do it for the votes. As long as they get the votes, they don't care if every business goes away.

And then they will spin it..."Big Macs weren't good for you anyway."


except they would still be turning a profit so that would be extremely unlikely (mcdonalds alone posted profits of $10.9 billion in 2013.... with walmart pulling in $127.22 billion.... so yes they certainly can afford it)
and if they want to close up shop good for them
what do you think will happen to these job providers and their wealth that was made off the backs of minimum wage labor when those jobs dry up and there are millions unemployed? the government can only take up so much slack
when joe the fry cooks unemployment runs out and his stomach is growling who do you think he will be cursing
what happens when there are millions like joe all out of work and all hungry so some investors and ceos could make a few million more a year?

edit on 17-2-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



You're looking at those large numbers and thinking that's a lot of money, and yes it is a lot of money. But you need to look at the profit margin. If a business spends $100 to operate and gets $110 return they made 10% profit. They had to spend $100 to make $10.
What percentage of profit is acceptable to you? 5-7-9? Bear in mind you can purchase a CD right now for about 5% interest. If profits don't stay higher than interest rates why risk the investment of a business.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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Increasing minimum wage is nothing but a political ploy for votes.. It plays to the lowest common denominator that sadly does not have enough common sense to understand it does not help those actually making minimum wage as prices are simply increased by the private sector to off set any wage increases..

Maybe if they taught more economics in public schools, we would not be assaulted with this load of horse manure every time the Democrats get in trouble...

Between this and the Social Security Scare tactics, I seriously doubt the future of this once great nation..



edit on 2/17/2014 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71
 


I'd like to know where you get your CD's, because everywhere I've looked they are 2% or less. That's less than the inflation rate. Meaning if you lock up your money in a CD for 5 years, you'll come out with less than when you started.

CD Rates

Raising the minimum wage will work for a year or two. But like others have said, the people that get the raises will meet the higher prices their raises induced.

I like the idea of a percentage raise for everybody though. Of course, I also like the idea of salary caps for people that actually do not "own" businesses. Caps at a certain percentage of the companies gross with the rest going back into the company or it's employees wages would be just wonderful.



posted on Feb, 17 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by rockn82
 


Oops sorry! That was supposed to be a 2 not a 5.





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