Probability does not necessarily mean that there is free-will

arpgme
NOTE: This thread is NOT about whether or not free-will exists. This thread is about whether or not everything is governed by Laws or is just Probability/Chaos, that doesn't necessarily mean free-will exists. Please read this entire Original Post before responding, thanks.

Everything is governed by laws ....and the laws operate under the will that is free to manipulate them . Next time you drive your car just think about all the mechanism inside (ignition, sparks, timing , pistons and especially the gas pedal). It is the most beautiful example of order and perfect timing and yet it is a product of our will.

You can expand on this and see all the parts (even at atomic level) bending to the will.

crowdedskies
Everything is governed by laws ....and the laws operate under the will that is free to manipulate them . Next time you drive your car just think about all the mechanism inside (ignition, sparks, timing , pistons and especially the gas pedal). It is the most beautiful example of order and perfect timing and yet it is a product of our will.

You can expand on this and see all the parts (even at atomic level) bending to the will.

But why was the car invented? To serve the purpose of faster travel and farther/longer journeys. As the worldwide population increased, the need to travel faster/farther/longer became more compulsory unless you lived in an isolated community.

Cars were created with various uses in mind, but mainly out of a necessity to satisfy something that was lacking. It can be argued that this was not the product of Free Will but Will at the mercy of the Laws and Rules in which it functions.

Dark Ghost

crowdedskies
Everything is governed by laws ....and the laws operate under the will that is free to manipulate them . Next time you drive your car just think about all the mechanism inside (ignition, sparks, timing , pistons and especially the gas pedal). It is the most beautiful example of order and perfect timing and yet it is a product of our will.

You can expand on this and see all the parts (even at atomic level) bending to the will.

But why was the car invented? To serve the purpose of faster travel and farther/longer journeys. As the worldwide population increased, the need to travel faster/farther/longer became more compulsory unless you lived in an isolated community.

Cars were created with various uses in mind, but mainly out of a necessity to satisfy something that was lacking. It can be argued that this was not the product of Free Will but Will at the mercy of the Laws and Rules in which it functions.

I was merely using a mundane example. As an alternative to building the car (which was done within the bounds of restrictive scientific principles) we could simply use our will to manipulate the laws differently.

For example, use the laws to teleport ourselves. Here we would simply "trick" the laws or tweak them. They are very amenable to this . It is a bit like that old Star Trek TV episode where Kirk tries to get an evil computer to self-destruct. All Kirk had to do was get the computer to identify itself and prove that it will execute its programs always. Then after a few trick questions Kirk told it to self-destroy and it went : "OMG ....nooooo!

My point is that we have infallible laws that we can manipulate. That is free-will.

crowdedskies
My point is that we have infallible laws that we can manipulate. That is free-will.

In the world of fiction, yes. But can you provide a real-life example that demonstrates this as true?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


You. Your will produces change within the system. What law can stand against will? Gravity cannot hold your finger down. Thermodynamics cannot do anything against your will to slow your heart rate...

etc

Maybe you do not understand what the "laws" are? They are spirits, or the will of angels, which are to manifest these "laws". (The "laws" are wills.)

We cannot destroy their will, if that is what you are trying to say, but we can invoke our own will to do what we will.

See: Here

Or maybe read the bible or maybe even the book of Jubilees to get a better understanding of will, spirits, angels, principalities, virtues, domains, etc.

It should give you a better understanding of why some angels fell from grace as well -- because they thought highly of their own wills -- as do some people, which is why some people pray to them.

E.g. Ra might have been the angel whose spirit / will it is to make sure the sun is in order, but he chose to come start a religion instead.

Who do you think the fallen ones are?

Dark Ghost

crowdedskies
My point is that we have infallible laws that we can manipulate. That is free-will.

In the world of fiction, yes. But can you provide a real-life example that demonstrates this as true?

Yes I can but may not be "real life" for most since it needs some practice or talent. One example of manipulation below.

One of the Universal laws requires the Astral plane to reflect in the Physical plane and vice-versa. Something cannot be in one plane and not reflected in another. Here is the trick. Use you will and imagination to artificially place and hold something in the astral plane. Use your will to hold that thing in the astral level. It is only a matter of time (days or weeks) before it is reflected and manifested in the physical world. The law cannot do anything but oblige and deliver.

By the way the laws of the universe are ours. It just that we forgot. We come as an inferior image of God with most features turned off.

Next time you think of the Universal laws, think of them as a computer program. When you switch on you Windows or Mac, you are using the laws (say a Word program) and using you free will to do what you want with the program (law)

The laws were designed to serve us. They are infallible just like a computer software and that is why they are so predictable and reliable. Science has been using Universal laws successfully because they always deliver. Sadly Scientist have the wrong perspective and distorted concept of matter.

[