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Italy's Berlusconi says euro strangling economy !

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posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 08:44 PM
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Personally I would love to see a very Strong Euro! Cheers for a declining Dollar......I would like to see $1.45 rate Dollar>Euro.....Even the field a bit.



ROME, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has launched a savage attack on the European Union's budget rules, saying the Stability and Growth Pact had to be reformed if the eurozone wanted to see strong growth.

In a hard-hitting column to appear in Tuesday's edition of Il Foglio newspaper, Berlusconi repeated his threat to bring down his government if recalcitrant coalition allies refused to back his plans for income tax cuts in 2005.

Berlusconi said the cuts were needed to revive a lethargic economy, but stressed the strength of the euro currency was also weighing heavily and called on his EU partners to revise the Maastricht Treaty on which the stability pact is based.

"The blessed introduction of the single European currency has thus far produced the exact opposite result of what the euro was created for -- an asphyxiated economy and hobbled growth under the burden of 'stupid' ties," Berlusconi wrote.


"In Europe there is an extremely strong drive to review aspects of the rigid ties of the Maastricht Treaty, those perverse factors that have increased the value of our currency above what is necessary and artificially penalised the competitiveness of our industries and our services," he added.


Stability and Growth Pact had to be reformed if the eurozone wanted to see strong growth




posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 11:13 PM
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Interesting find Ed.

People tend to trash talk the United states but many fail to realize that we are humans and that problems the "Americans" have in the US of A does not nessesarily mean that "Europeans" won't have the same problems in the US of E.

Later,

Reason



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:28 AM
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And now the dollar even gets lower and the Euro higher. The German bank is getting nervous and talking to the Japanese bank about options that they both can do...maybe they are going to buy dollars? Might not be a bad investment long term....the dollar is going to get near 1.45 - 1.50 Euro before it stops.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:42 AM
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"The blessed introduction of the single European currency has thus far produced the exact opposite result of what the euro was created for -- an asphyxiated economy and hobbled growth under the burden of 'stupid' ties," Berlusconi wrote.


And that is what happens when you get a bunch of different governments all pulling for themselves and trying to legislate things into their favor.

I have been saying for a while that the Euro - and the EU in general - was going to do more harm then good.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 04:08 AM
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Italys Berlosconi opens his mouth and large amounts of Fecal matter come forth. The fact that this guy is even aqknowledged internationally is a farce, he was found guilty of corruption TWICE before stanind for PM... something it up with that surely. Oh hang on it's Italy... their politics have been dodgy since the Americans tried so hard to rig the elections so they could have their fascist buddies back in Rome instead of those dangerous commies. Yes the US was heavily involved in Italian vote rigging after WW2.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 04:52 AM
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Even if they hadn't switched to the Euro they would still have a problem with high currencies.

It's not just the Euro that went up against the dollar.

The Swiss Franc is at the highest point in 9 years,
The British Pound is at the highest point in 12 years.
The Canadian dollar is also up signifcantly and so are the currencies from Australia, and Japan and pretty much every other currency.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 06:17 AM
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The high Euro and deflation is a serious problem not to be neglected indeed, however, Berlusconi is right for the wrong reasons, he is a questionable figure with questionable motives, he is the Bush of Europe and the Enron of Europe is Parmalat.

...Maybe Berlusconi puts forward the worries of sicilian Godfathers that all those smuggled suitcases full of drugsdollars are worth a lot less


[edit on 3-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:55 AM
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Berlusconi is something of a joke across much of Europe (and not always a pleasant one at that) - but then Italian politics are a strange concoction at the best of times.

This is all about the US dollar's on-going collapse, not the Euro's appreciation as can be seen by the manner in which the US dollar is heavily down against most currencies.

Enjoy it while it lasts and you don't notice the impact so much.....some (those who never leave the USA) might not even notice the effects for while yet but the fact is the US dollar is worth a lot less now and is going to decline even further.

.....and God help you if there is a serious and sustained movement in commodities being priced in US dollars.....what will the 'value' be based on then?
You don't really make that much of anything anyone really wants.

Anyhoo this all means higher prices in the USA, regardless of how much further it goes.....and when they roll out the higher interest rates to bear down on the inflation; well, you work it out....how 'real' is the current 'boom' when the arms boost is stripped out and the 'Mc jobs' are taken into account.....recession anyone?

There isn't even much 'insulation' from this with US dollar priced goods and raw materials ......as those countries expecting payments in a US dollar of less and less value are going to want more and more of them, aren't they, right?

This is not much 'good' for anyone really is the fact of the matter, actually.

But on balance - in view of the way America is determined to borrow itself to ruin - I'm pretty glad that whatever lies ahead Europe has the Euro.

I see tough times for us all economically.....but I'm pretty sure Europe will do much better through them with a major currency than without.

Contrary to anyone's baseless imaginings the Euro will do us far more good than harm.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


.....and God help you if there is a serious and sustained movement in commodities being priced in US dollars.....what will the 'value' be based on then?
You don't really make that much of anything anyone really wants.



I find this laughable since the United States is the Worlds Largest EXPORTER....Maybe Germany is close but I seriuoly doubt they are as the declining dollar and rising Euro have had some positive impacts the last few months.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I find this laughable since the United States is the Worlds Largest EXPORTER


- In sheer volume and dollar numbers that is true (there are afterall quite a few of you and your manufacturing industry, what remains of it, is quite modern) but it is counter-balanced so badly by your imports.

You don't even make enough of what your people want.

Your trade balance is frightening.....and this is all about the trade balance for it is the things you make and sell around the world that keep your currency 'real'.....and you guys just aren't doing that at the moment.


....Maybe Germany is close but I seriuoly doubt they are as the declining dollar and rising Euro have had some positive impacts the last few months.


- German exports anywhere not priced in dollars (and expect to see more and more deals done at a Euro price in future) are doing pretty well actually.

The Euro's appreciation is really just about the US dollars decline.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 07:24 PM
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I think I can say we agree on most of that, except the fact of the exports, they are growing also, some months faster than imports grow some not...

The dollar was so strong that it was killing US business, now this will even the playing field a bit.

It fell even more today, I would like 1.50 to a Euro myself, 0.15 to go!



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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regardless of economy i'm fairly happy as it means I will soon be able to get 2 US dollars for my 1 just in time for my visit there in the new year



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lucretius
regardless of economy i'm fairly happy as it means I will soon be able to get 2 US dollars for my 1 just in time for my visit there in the new year


It will not go that low in the next few years, look for a 1.50 and be happy. Come spend your money here



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You don't even make enough of what your people want.

Yes we did (could) but every factory worker wants to make $50 per hour for a job. The cost of labor is one key reason why jobs are going overseas. Can you blame companies for doing this? They exist to make a profit and public companies owe a responsibility to the shareholders which support the stock price by holding. Yes, private companies are doing this as well, but they too exist to make a profit or they wouldn't have started their business in the first place. The simple fact is we are pricing ourselves out of the market.

Look at IT jobs. Years ago we could jump from company to company each year and get a $10,000 pay raise. Lots of us did it too. It was great while it lasted. What's happening now? Indian programmers make something like $20,000 compared to our $60,000. Luckily I work for a company with a very tight IT shop so we are not that much of a burden compared to other companies with bloated IT shops.

It's time to get realistic about wages in the US or we will continue to see other more jobs leaving. The cost of goods will equalize in due time if no one is buying them due to high prices.



The Euro's appreciation is really just about the US dollars decline.

Very accurate deduction.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Lucretius
regardless of economy i'm fairly happy as it means I will soon be able to get 2 US dollars for my 1 just in time for my visit there in the new year


It will not go that low in the next few years, look for a 1.50 and be happy. Come spend your money here


I'm talking about the british pound not the euro..

It's already 1.89 dollars to the pound



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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I find it funny how an italian guy is complaining about the euro since the lira wasnt worth crap



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I find this laughable since the United States is the Worlds Largest EXPORTER....Maybe Germany is close but I seriuoly doubt they are as the declining dollar and rising Euro have had some positive impacts the last few months.
Would you mind very much providing statistics in support of that? Thank you.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by edsinger
I find this laughable since the United States is the Worlds Largest EXPORTER....Maybe Germany is close but I seriuoly doubt they are as the declining dollar and rising Euro have had some positive impacts the last few months.
Would you mind very much providing statistics in support of that? Thank you.



Global output rose by 3.7% in 2003, led by China (9.1%), India (7.6%), and Russia (7.3%). The other 14 successor nations of the USSR and the other old Warsaw Pact nations again experienced widely divergent growth rates; the three Baltic nations continued as strong performers, in the 5%-7% range of growth. Growth results posted by the major industrial countries varied from a loss by Germany (-0.1%) to a strong gain by the United States (3.1%).

Rank Country Exports Date of Information
1 World $ 6,421,000,000,000 2002 est.
2 United States $ 714,500,000,000 2004 est.
3 Germany $ 696,900,000,000 2004 est.
4 Japan $ 447,100,000,000 2004 est.
5 China $ 436,100,000,000 2004 est.
6 France $ 346,500,000,000 2004 est.
7 United Kingdom $ 304,500,000,000 2004 est.
8 Canada $ 279,300,000,000 2004 est.
9 Italy $ 278,100,000,000 2004 est.
10 Netherlands $ 253,200,000,000 2004 est.

Rank Country Imports Date of Information
1 World $ 6,531,000,000,000 2002 est.
2 United States $ 1,260,000,000,000 2003 est.
3 Germany $ 585,000,000,000 2003 est.
4 China $ 397,400,000,000 2003 est.
5 United Kingdom $ 363,600,000,000 2003 est.
6 Japan $ 346,600,000,000 2003 est.
7 France $ 339,900,000,000 2003 est.
8 Italy $ 271,100,000,000 2003 est.
9 Canada $ 240,400,000,000 2003 est.
10 Hong Kong $ 230,300,000,000 2003 est.


But what does that mean? Lets look at the other stuff

Rank Country GDP Date of Information
1 World $ 51,480,000,000,000 2004 est.
2 United States $ 10,990,000,000,000 2004 est.
3 China $ 6,449,000,000,000 2004 est.
4 Japan $ 3,582,000,000,000 2004 est.
5 India $ 3,033,000,000,000 2004 est.
6 Germany $ 2,271,000,000,000 2004 est.
7 United Kingdom $ 1,666,000,000,000 2004 est.
8 France $ 1,661,000,000,000 2004 est.
9 Italy $ 1,550,000,000,000 2004 est.
10 Brazil $ 1,375,000,000,000 2004 est.
11 Russia $ 1,282,000,000,000 2004 est.
12 Canada $ 958,700,000,000 2004 est.
13 Mexico $ 941,200,000,000 2004 est.
14 Spain $ 885,500,000,000 2004 est.
15 Korea, South $ 857,800,000,000 2004 est.




Rank Country Debt - external Date of Information
1 World $ 2,000,000,000,000 2002 est.
2 United States $ 1,400,000,000,000 2001 est.
3 Italy $ 868,500,000,000 2004 est.
4 Spain $ 718,400,000,000 2004 est.
5 Portugal $ 250,700,000,000 2004 est.
6 Australia $ 233,500,000,000 2004 est.
7 Brazil $ 214,900,000,000 2004 est.
8 China $ 197,800,000,000 2004 est.
9 Russia $ 175,900,000,000 2004 est.
10 Mexico $ 159,800,000,000 2004 est.



Source



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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Try this one, it is somewhat newer than that which you quote. Don't waste your time looking at each, just vault to Germany.
www.oecd.org...

Your position is best served with updated information.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:49 PM
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Ok good link and much better information I will agree....lets look at it.


2001 2002 2003 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep


United States 60.76 57.76 60.40 63.18 65.68 67.41 65.90 68.47 66.90 69.63 65.72 68.23 68.22 15.1

Germany - 47.63 51.15 62.53 67.33 73.89 73.54 73.54 72.64 73.10 74.83 72.70 75.73 74.08 19.1


Lets look at that last number also, Variation 12-month rate of changesur 12 mois

15.9 to Germany's 19.1 growth rates........hmmm Seems that Germany passed the US in 2003?






[edit on 3-12-2004 by edsinger]



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