Union vs. non Union... my views and yours

Did the shill run or was it shift change?

reply to post by Montana


Do you give your employees the same pay and benefits as the railroad gives you? Just curious.

I guess he couldn't handle the truth.

You guys were pretty rough on him.

Truth be told, alot of us UNION people did take pride in our work and would go the extra mile, and WORKED for what we have.

reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71


I pay my employees a larger portion of the company's income than I keep myself (I mostly don't take much more than expenses). They are very happy with their job and when times were really tough a couple years ago they volunteered to take pay cuts to help out. I refused. I am proud of the good relations I have with them and have nothing to be ashamed of. When they have requests or concerns I listen.

Can the corporations say the same?

EDIT to add: And yes, they do have the same health benefits as I do.

Just an example.....

gothamist.com...

Investigators trying to determine what caused Wednesday's horrific elevator death in a Madison Avenue building are focusing on a maintenance company that was working on the elevator hours before the malfunction. A Buildings Department spokesman says the company, Transel Elevator, had sent an unlicensed worker to do electrical work that morning. Why was the worker unlicensed? Well, as you may or may not know, you DON'T NEED A LICENSE TO WORK ON AN ELEVATOR IN NYC. As one union rep tells the Times, "Anyone with a set of tools can work on an elevator." Food for thought as you're climbing the stairs today.

An elevator expert told us yesterday that of the three possible causes of Hart's death, human error was number one. Also yesterday, elevator repairman Jason Jordan was charged with reckless endangerment after a woman was nearly killed in an elevator he had been working on. Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes alleges that Jordan "disregarded industry standards and disabled the safety switch that prevents the elevator from moving when the doors are open."

Food for thought.

reply to post by tinner07

yeah...those were the days...we were underaged too, and some of us had to have our MOMS "chaperone" us while we played.

Theres a story in there too about when my mom got a rep drunk and stole his notebook with our info in it! (Thanks mom. You were the best!)

Let's be honest about the future shall we.
The only unions that are going to be around for the long hall are the jobs that can't be outsourced. The railroads can't move to china nor can electricians and plumbers. Take the uaw, my ford was made in Canada. Yeah I bought an American car. GE just announced the closing of its last shop near me, so much for the union keeping those high paying jobs. GE was an icon in the city, now it's going to be another empty building. Get used to the pattern.

I also have an observation. My wife works with a lady whos husband works for the post office. They are heavy duty pro union democrats. Yet they both drive Hyundai's,,,, non union made cars! That's what I call union loyalty. That's why companies in this country go under, choices have consequences.

You can keep your future, it sounds like you just rolled over and died with it. I like mine much better. The one where enough citizens wake up to the fact that the only people losing money right now are the middle class. When we finally decide that the "free trade" fantasies we have been sold are nothing more than a get rich quick scheme for international corporations. The future where people wake up and replace all those cretins in Washington that are the corporate toadies with a government OF THE PEOPLE again. That future will be much better than the hell you want to send us to.

Oh, i own a truck made (except the parts that were made in foreign countries and imported for "free") in this country. So does my wife and all my kids.

reply to post by tinner07


I'm a 57yr. old retired member of the International Longshoremen's Association. I retired in 2005 at age 48 with 32 1/2 yrs. in the industry and I'm enjoying every minute of it. None of which would have been possible without the union.

During my tenure, I served in official capacity for 4 different I.L.A. Locals, (2 of which I helped Charter) and I also served for over 10yrs. as a labor representative on the Board of Trustees overseeing investment and administration of our Benefit Trust Funds with assets in excess of 500 million dollars.

My wife & I currently enjoy a monthly pension and some of the best healthcare benefits offered anywhere in America. We also have a retirement account similar to a 401k with the "funds" but I'm still too young to access it without incurring an IRS penalty, but it's there if I need it.

The work I did as a longshoreman was some of the hardest work and longest hours of any industry I know of but looking back, it was worth every minute of it.

As many have stated in this thread, there are good unions and there are bad ones. All it takes for a good union to go bad is for it's good members to remain silent and un-involved.

To all the right wing union haters out there....

Don't watch TV or go to movies because they are all union shop.

Even your holy spokesman [on loan from God] Rush Limbaugh is a member of a union.


www.alternet.org...'reilly_are_afl-cio_union-affiliated_mem bers

Montana
You can keep your future, it sounds like you just rolled over and died with it. I like mine much better. The one where enough citizens wake up to the fact that the only people losing money right now are the middle class. When we finally decide that the "free trade" fantasies we have been sold are nothing more than a get rich quick scheme for international corporations. The future where people wake up and replace all those cretins in Washington that are the corporate toadies with a government OF THE PEOPLE again. That future will be much better than the hell you want to send us to.

Oh, i own a truck made (except the parts that were made in foreign countries and imported for "free") in this country. So does my wife and all my kids.

I'm being realistic and you know it. I didn't say thats what should happen, I said thats what is happening. The people as you call them have been pretty stupid for as long as I can remember, so don't expect them to wake up anytime soon. Your view of the future is you looking through rose colored glasses. Your unions didn't save Detroit did they? What makes you think they will save anything else.

My unions CREATED Detroit. Your corporate toadies killed it.

The citizens of this country may have been stupid for as long as YOU can remember but they weren't always stupid or we wouldn't have a country in the first place, would we? There is an enormous upside to the USA right now, if people like you will just stop giving in to your "inevitable" future. It will take a lot of work and a LOT more courage than I am seeing from the majority of people currently, but it is there and we can have it if we want it. Or we can listen to what you are saying and get in the food line.

olaru12
To all the right wing union haters out there....

Don't watch TV or go to movies because they are all union shop.

Even your holy spokesman [on loan from God] Rush Limbaugh is a member of a union.


www.alternet.org...'reilly_are_afl-cio_union-affiliated_me mbers

edit on 12-2-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Here is a list of movies filmed in Canada to avoid unions.

dadsdelights.blogspot.com...

Just saying they are not all made in union shops.

Montana
My unions CREATED Detroit. Your corporate toadies killed it.

The citizens of this country may have been stupid for as long as YOU can remember but they weren't always stupid or we wouldn't have a country in the first place, would we? There is an enormous upside to the USA right now, if people like you will just stop giving in to your "inevitable" future. It will take a lot of work and a LOT more courage than I am seeing from the majority of people currently, but it is there and we can have it if we want it. Or we can listen to what you are saying and get in the food line.

edit on 2/12/2014 by Montana because: add an ing

Wow, I have not said once that unions are a bad thing. I have said that they are going to disappear where the jobs can be outsourced. So stop assuming you know what I think. And yes people have been stupid for a long time, I was five when carter was elected so they were pretty dumb then. I own my own business just like you, I pay my employees well just like you so don't tell me I don't see an upside to this country or I sure wouldn't be doing that. I also vote and write my representatives, how many people here do that? I'm fighting for my kids future, don't think for a minute I'm not.

I don't belong to a union but I thank the unions every day for their sacrifice of lost time and wages that set the wage and safety standard that industry including non-union receive.
I tip my hat to you!
To the B.S. employers out there who treat their employees like crap get what they deserve......unionism. Pay and treat your staff well and they will chase the union as far away from the worksite as possible. Stop blaming the collective, it's all on the employer and the people they choose to manage.


Corporate executive credits unions

ATS Thread here

Lets see what these people way smarter than any of you have to say about unions. Maybe you will recognise a couple.
(I like Frank Lloyd Wright's quote)

"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing of character in man, than any other association of men."
Clarence Darrow

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms is treason. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."
Abraham Lincoln

"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor."
Frank Lloyd Wright

"The labor movement means just this: It is the last noble protest of the American people against the power of incorporated wealth."
Wendell Phillips

"The American labor movement has consistently demonstrated its devotion to the public interest. It is, and has been, good for all America. Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor--those who cripple collective bargaining or prevent organization of the unorganized--do a disservice to the cause of democracy."
John F. Kennedy

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
Abraham Lincoln

My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: "We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing."
Mother Jones

Sorry, I just get so tired of people giving up around here. Keep the faith and we will find a way somehow.

And in our defense, look who our choice was other than Carter.... we all wanted a 'do over'!

reply to post by olaru12


your mentality is why i dont like unions

you are an actor (sag) or as the creators of south park put it f.a.g.

i dont think they are union

from yiur first post you think you deserve something

you don't

dont the homeless deserve homes

dont the jobless deserve jobs

dont the hungry deserve food

this society has become a joke

because of people who think this world owes them something

we are a depraved country and i dont think we deserve antlything

get over your ego

love you matt stone and tre parker dont know if they are union but they called it

good day

eta i dont watxh movies or tv just likr most sports all a bunch of whinny d bags though i will give anything matt and tre put out a shot

for good reason

OrdoAdChao

doubletap


Just someone who isnt a loser that needs to pay others to threaten businesses in order to keep my job. Sadly degenerate union bottom feeders cannot say the same. I dont need to work 17 hours a day to make a very decent income either

I hate to "doubletap", but the bold text in your quote screams of a business owner only interested in lining their own pockets. Union members demand that the collective are taken care of. It is obvious that you think as an 'individualist' who has a conceded point of view of reality; one that is so separate from the true human condition that you literally think you've done it all. Carry on, uberman. Don't consider the flies at the marketplace. Swat them! Don't you know your own advice? Why do you even bother to come amongst us wretched and attempt to enlighten our sheepish views?

edit on 12-2-2014 by OrdoAdChao because: Grammar and things

Yes, I think as an individualist. Businesses have no obligation to "take care of" or enrich their employees. Businesses exist to make a profit, and to limit all costs, chief among them, labor. Are you actually saying unions do not threaten a business in order to get what they want? That behavior is very similar to a child throwing a tantrum until the parents give in.

Hoosierdaddy71

olaru12
To all the right wing union haters out there....

Don't watch TV or go to movies because they are all union shop.

Even your holy spokesman [on loan from God] Rush Limbaugh is a member of a union.


www.alternet.org...'reilly_are_afl-cio_union-affiliated_mem bers

edit on 12-2-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Here is a list of movies filmed in Canada to avoid unions.

dadsdelights.blogspot.com...

Just saying they are not all made in union shops.

Sometimes a little research can keep us from looking like fools....
You just lost all credibility by not knowing what you are talking about.
And using a blog as evidence is so lame.

Canada has film unions just like the USA

www.masterguide.com...

www.nabet700.com...://http:


www.actratoronto.com...


I have worked in BC on a show under my locals contract. I also work on indy projects [no,low budget or New Media] that are non union and sign waivers to work on them. I have gladly worked for free on movies that were non union just to see them made.

Montana
My unions CREATED Detroit. Your corporate toadies killed it.

The citizens of this country may have been stupid for as long as YOU can remember but they weren't always stupid or we wouldn't have a country in the first place, would we? There is an enormous upside to the USA right now, if people like you will just stop giving in to your "inevitable" future. It will take a lot of work and a LOT more courage than I am seeing from the majority of people currently, but it is there and we can have it if we want it. Or we can listen to what you are saying and get in the food line.

edit on 2/12/2014 by Montana because: add an ing

Actually unions destroyed Detroit by demanding ridiculous salaries for menial jobs. When faced with the stupidity put forth by unions, carmakers did what every intelligent business does: They found lower costs elsewhere. If unions didnt make laughable demands, Detroit would still be a solid manufacturing center.