What is evil?

spirited75
Atheists, moral relativists, post modern new age believers,
cannot honestly join this discussion without revealing the
mendacity and duplicity of their intellect and heart.
The utter phoniness of their world view.

Are you insinuating that because you feel that morals are absolute there fore God must exist, and if God exists he must be good, there fore he has established absolute morals? And thats why my world view is phony?

reply to post by Stormdancer777




I didn't see you get slammed? I haven;t read every post but I didn't see you getting slammed?
Just that some people, like me, find the words or concept of good and evil to be a strange and archaic, primitive one.


Pitting people against each other or spreading hate is just that, hateful.
It's spiteful, mean, pernicious and causes harm... but why does it have to be evil?

The Westboro Baptist Church spreads hate, yet they are using the bible as their reference to do so, so is the Bible evil?
No, but parts of it are awful, spiteful, mean, disgusting and so on.
As we said earlier, there is some great wisdom and beautiful things in the Bible, there are also some awful and nasty things in there.

reply to post by blupblup


Maybe I felt something hidden in the words.
but anyway,

I didn't know that the word evil, or the concept of evil was debatable.

lol

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Trexter Ziam

 

TY, I am going to check that out.

After you've seen those two which were basically societal-induced psychological factors, another video that talks about physical factors (DNA - warrior syndrome and a brain scan difference behind the eyebrows) is over 45 minutes long at www.bbc.com... It's a BBC video entitled "Are We Born Good or Evil".

I personally have major disagreements with the Yale test at the beginning of the video. I feel the test wasn't "clear" enough which caused wrong results, and that the children may be wrongfully labeled now. If their parents bring them up assuming a "bad kid" label ... it will affect the child no matter how hard the parents try to forget the episode. Considering what appears to me to be apparent flaws in the test ... just ignore that part. There's more to the video after that.

While I have met some very evil toddlers and children, (most examples excluded) - one I know personally is a well-rounded adult now. He doesn't have the innate moral sense we have (like not ripping other people off for money etc.), but he does TRY to be better especially when the immoral actions are pointed out. Overall he's still deluded and seems to have no sense of right and wrong.

So, while I DO believe some are "born evil" but that should never be a straight-jacket label as people can and do change.

Stormdancer777

I didn't know that the word evil, or the concept of evil was debatable.

lol

Of course it is

It's one of the most heavily debated topics out there.

Views on the nature of evil tend to fall into one of four opposed camps:

Moral absolutism holds that good and evil are fixed concepts established by a deity or deities, nature, morality, common sense, or some other source.

Amoralism claims that good and evil are meaningless, that there is no moral ingredient in nature.

Moral relativism holds that standards of good and evil are only products of local culture, custom, or prejudice.

Moral universalism is the attempt to find a compromise between the absolutist sense of morality, and the relativist view; universalism claims that morality is only flexible to a degree, and that what is truly good or evil can be determined by examining what is commonly considered to be evil amongst all humans.

en.wikipedia.org...


it's truly fascinating really.

Jarring
evil is many things, most of which is fueled by pride.

Excellent simple summary without any specific religious system involved; yet fitting them all.

Thanks for this.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


the seven deadly sins as elaborated by religious entities
GLUTTONY
GREED
LUST
PRIDE
SLOTH
ENVY
WRATH.

They beat modern day philosophies to hell.

What is evil?


- Having free will is probably the evil that tops them all.

Just look at the system we have to live by just because of Our free will.

reply to post by spirited75


indeed

spy66
What is evil?


- Having free will is probably the evil that tops them all.

Just look at the system we have to live by just because of Our free will.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

actually, it is evil that prevents us from having free will.

things like pride and lust especially make you wonder if you really have a choice at all.

spirited75
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

the seven deadly sins as elaborated by religious entities
GLUTTONY
GREED
LUST
PRIDE
SLOTH
ENVY
WRATH.

They beat modern day philosophies to hell.

Ha!

Those aren't even in the original text. Those were the 7 sins chosen to HIDE the original ones.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


care to enlighten us then?

reply to post by Jarring


Sure, why not.

Wiki:

In the Book of Proverbs 6:16-19, among the verses traditionally associated with King Solomon, it states that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and seven that are an abomination unto Him", namely:[4]
A proud look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren

Another list, given this time by the Epistle to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21), includes more of the traditional seven sins, although the list is substantially longer: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, "and such like".[5] Since Saint Paul goes on to say that the persons who practice these sins "shall not inherit the Kingdom of God", they are usually listed as (possible) mortal sins rather than capital vices.

The reason it's set up as 6 that God hates, and 7 that are an abomination is likely for 2 reasons:
1. poetical license
2. the first 6 are parts of the 7th one.

Hebrew time, for the ones that have a slightly expandable meaning:
Haughty Eye:

Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
to rise, rise up, be high, be lofty, be exalted
(Qal)
to be high, be set on high / to be raised, be uplifted, be exalted / to be lifted, rise
(Polel)
to raise or rear (children), cause to grow up / to lift up, raise, exalt / to exalt, extol
(Polal) to be lifted up
(Hiphil)
to raise, lift, lift up, take up, set up, erect, exalt, set on high / to lift up (and take away), remove / to lift off and present, contribute, offer, contribute
(Hophal) to be taken off, be abolished
(Hithpolel) to exalt oneself, magnify oneself
(Qal) to be rotten, be wormy
~~~~~~~~
Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
eye
eye
of physical eye \ as showing mental qualities / of mental and spiritual faculties (fig.)
spring, fountain

So could be translated as:
The mentality to force your self-superiority on others.


Heart devises wicked plans:

Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
inner part, midst
midst (of things) / heart (of man) / soul, heart (of man) / mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory / inclination, resolution, determination (of will) / conscience / heart (of moral character) / as seat of appetites / as seat of emotions and passions
as seat of courage
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
to cut in, plough, engrave, devise
(Qal)
to cut in, engrave / to plough / to devise
(Niphal) to be ploughed
(Hiphil) to plot evil
to be silent, be dumb, be speechless, be deaf
(Qal)
to be silent / to be deaf
(Hiphil)
to be silent, keep quiet / to make silent / to be deaf, show deafness
(Hithpael) to remain silent
~~~~~~~~~~~
Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
trouble, wickedness, sorrow
trouble, sorrow / idolatry / trouble of iniquity, wickedness
~~~~~~~~~~~
Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
thought, device
thought / device, plan, purpose
invention

Someone whose innermost person plans trouble as his purpose in life.

Utters:

Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
to breathe, blow
(Qal) to breathe
(Hiphil)
to cause to exhale or breathe / to puff, snort / to excite, inflame / to puff, pant for it / to breathe out, utter / to blow, blast

Actually looks more like muttering, talking under your breath. Gives the implication of telling lies behind the subject's back.

Jarring
actually, it is evil that prevents us from having free will.

things like pride and lust especially make you wonder if you really have a choice at all.

Enh, not quite....

More like it makes it far more difficult to have a choice, although there is still one to make that's easy.

You can choose to not do anything about the natural reaction to have a superiority complex, and you can choose to not curb the natural reaction of desiring things that are not good for you.

We're also really good at confusing our first reaction with the whole of our choice. We're a little more helpless on the first thought that comes to our minds, but we don't have to live in our first thought. Literally set out to deliberately change the mental image as soon as it pops up, set out to have a deliberately different mental conversation with yourself, anything but allow yourself to dwell in that moment.

First thoughts are controlled more by what we choose to focus on regularly. It's like an auto-correct made to use our habitual words that changes parwn to porn. (As in if you hadn't typed porn all the time, then maybe your phone would have corrected parwn to prawn.)

And it can be a lifetime's worth of work.

Another thing is that most of these things we'd label as "sin" or "evil" are merely tools, not necessarily evil in and of themselves.

For instance: LUST. The Greek word that is translated as LUST is the same word that Christ used when he told the Apostles that he longingly desired to partake the Passover with them. You can desire things that are good for you. It's when we desire things that are detrimental to us that it becomes "the evil lust".

Jarring

spy66
What is evil?


- Having free will is probably the evil that tops them all.

Just look at the system we have to live by just because of Our free will.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

actually, it is evil that prevents us from having free will.

things like pride and lust especially make you wonder if you really have a choice at all.

No it is not evil that prevents us from being free and having free will. It is Our fear that prevents us from having free will. We fear what Our neighbors might do With their free will. We fear evil before it has even happened.

We can not live a free and happy life without being controlled by a government. And none of us would even know how to live without being guided by a government system.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


the way i see the evil you speak of is more or less the same as the seven deadly, or rather how one goes about doing them. i understand what you mean about not all lust being necessarily evil, but even so...even if the desire is for good things, it is possible the intentions may be botched, just as many see good in pride. i think we're delving into a choice of words for something seemingly innocent which is normally used to describe fault. Like being proud in someone or something other than yourself, it doesn't act like pride normally does in its evil sense of the word. there are probably more ways to describe intentions and emotions, we just take the more direct route to get the point across.

i agree though, i'm not arguing with you, i'm just humoring the subject.

reply to post by spy66


what you're talking about sounds like vanity imho. most vanity is typically the direct result of fear. but i might just be labeling it for what i know it is without completely understanding your reasoning for believing this.

Evil is the opposite parallel world of Good. Good is logical in self-discipline and prospers, evil is not and cannot sustain its self-discipline and destroy's itself inevitably. I may justify evil being illogical due to my good nature but it is only so, because evil cannot justify in a good way what it does to itself and others. Evil is counter productive. Production is the law of life and prosperity, evil cannot accomidate these means properly which is against the law of life and prosperity.

Only if an Evil being was also good (in our situations) could it be logical in self-discipline and prosper. Because of the addition of an Evil being also being some what good - This Evil being will not be counter productive even to its own people and will gradually prosper because it is some what good. This is the only way Evil will prosper.

So it is possibly safe to say because of the second paragraph that an Evil being cannot be logical and cannot prosper if it is not also infused with good.

Einstein is a bomb scientist, not a good philosopher in some areas.

reply to post by Jarring



For evil to exist, evil must have been caused.

A person can only be evil if s/he have done evil.

We humans have a Choice when it comes to doing evil. Because evil is a Choice. This is where Our free will comes in.

For religious People: Even Satan must make a Choice to do evil to be evil.


Evil is difficult subjects because no human knows the absolute moral code.

It's a thought it your head - a thought that can vary greatly between people.

boymonkey74
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Anyone who makes a living by telling others about someone elses version of God. Then expect money from them, Priests, Vicars etc.
Also the clergy who have abused their power (no one should have spiritual power other others) and messed about with kids.

Gosh.. you really hate religion don't you. Some people only ever see the bad........