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Prayer in school?

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posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 07:38 PM
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just wanted to through my two cents out there, and there has probably already been a thread on this topic. But Being allowed to pray in school is a form of free speech, but how do you think a muslim person in a school in the bible belt would be treated attempting to do this ? or a budhist or Catholic or a hindhu? I can see how it would be a good idea to just not allow it, as it would casue more problems. maybe even endanger the student. what are your thoughts on this

[Edited on 22-11-2004 by bordnlazy]




posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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I think people need to pray at home, in church, while they walk on the road.

But a school by promoting ONE PRAYER eliminates and degrades all others.

If a school wants to give students time to meditate and pray outside of classes, or give them access to religious services, or allow them to wear the clothes that are appropriate for their calling--

schools can cooperate with churches without spoon-feeding one religion down the throats of all the diverse children.

What the Gummint needs to do is allow parents to have more time with their children, to teach them about family, community, religion, public health, finances, hygiene, child rearing and all the home skills that people are losing because they're working too many jobs and spending too much time on the road commuting.

I see people driving themselves into the ground, on the road all the time chasing from one activity to another.

It's goofy! Nuts! Unnecessary!!




posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 07:44 PM
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Sorry, I can't resist...As long as there are tests in schools there will be prayer!


No organized prayer in schools is a good thing. But, if students gather on their own and pray, or if they are eating lunch together and want to say grace, this is perfectly fine and should be allowed



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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I, personally, dont think prayer should be allowed in a school organized manner during school hours.

If the students want to start a prayer group or whatever before or after school, fine. As long as they dont drag the rest of the school into their prayers, I honestly have no problem with it.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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There is no legal basis to prevent praying in school. Students can pray. Teachers can pray. Administrators can pray. Even janitors can pray.

What can't happen is for school employees, while acting as proxies for the state, to lead a prayer. Because at that time the employee is acting as a representative of the government, if they lead a prayer that are giving an explicit endorsement for one particular type of religion. If they want to pray in their (closed) office, great, or in the teacher's lounge before lunch, that's fine too. Hell, they can even pray quietly (as many students may be doing) over lunch in the school caffeteria. If they stand up and say "Hey kids, let's all give thanks to Jesus/Buddha/Allah/Mithras for this great lunch." that's when the trouble starts.

Well, at least in a sane, rational world. The truth is that a lot of schools do make some pretty stupid policies concerning religious behavior. The schools are scared, afraid of being sued by trigger-happy liberals and trigger-happy conservatives. They try to walk the middle line, but aren't always successful. As a former teacher, I have a lot of sympathy for the difficult position schools find themselves in when dealing with inflamatory social issues, but I still find myself shaking my head and wincing at the way in which some schools choose to deal with those issues.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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Here is the thing. I certain areas it is required by law to attend school until one is a certain age. If the government is forcing one to go to school and having prayer to a specific religion, then the government is forcing that religion and the separation between church and state (as well as freedom of religion) is broken.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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What isn't allowed is 'Forced Prayer' of any specific Religion. In fact, there is simply No Forced Religious Dogma that is allowed.

However, I do believe there are still certain 'Clubs' in public schools that can be Religiously Based. Like 'Christian Youth Club' or something, ya know?!?!

Nobody is actually 'Preventing' anyone from Praying in school if they desire to do so personally. In fact I am sure that Prayer is quite popular right before Finals, Administrative Evaluations, etc. I do remember that Prayer was actually very common within athletics, atleast when I was in school. Teams would usually get together with the coaches and pray before and/or during games, sometimes in full public view and nobody made a fuss about it.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:49 AM
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There is a reason there are churches.

School is for learning.

Churches are for praying in.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Carseller4
Sorry, I can't resist...As long as there are tests in schools there will be prayer!


No organized prayer in schools is a good thing. But, if students gather on their own and pray, or if they are eating lunch together and want to say grace, this is perfectly fine and should be allowed

Best answer I've seen yet.
People get too darned sensitive about everything these days, things that don't really bother them or concern them, but they just have to make it part of their business.

I'll bet that if a bunch of kids want to sit on the front lawn and read poetry, or play the guitar and sing folk songs, nobody would have a problem with that. But make that tome a bible, or the song a Christmas carol, and all of a sudden somebody's gonna be infringed upon. Jeezus!

:shk:



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I'll bet that if a bunch of kids want to sit on the front lawn and read poetry, or play the guitar and sing folk songs, nobody would have a problem with that. But make that tome a bible, or the song a Christmas carol, and all of a sudden somebody's gonna be infringed upon. Jeezus!


You are perfectly right, jsobecky. I don't mind if someone is reading the bible, the koran or Bill Gates' biography, it isn't anything to do with me unless they try to get me to participate. There's only one thing I can say to those people who run around saying 'Oh look, someones reading a bible. That offends me so I'm going to get it stopped'.
Grow up for gods sake !!!!



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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I think everyone should pray as they wish. If someone has a problem with it, too bad. I wouldn't stop a Muslim from praying, I wouldn't even stop someone who practices witchcraft. I am a Christian and I will pray. They could pray as much as they want, because I know that I will be praying as well. Plus, no one can stop another from praying because people can pray in their head.

We shouldn't cut it out to avoid problems. People need to control themselves and mind their own business. It's almost like making children wear uniforms to prevent bullies from making fun of the way other children dress. The bully must learn not to be so petty, and WILL learn that there are consequences for bugging someone for something so silly. Basically, if prayer is cut off to avoid problems, a bunch of other things will have to be cut off, as well, because almost everything can cause trouble.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 02:19 PM
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As long as its not made mandatory in public schools everything is fine.

I know the conservatives complain about diversity.. but in reality, especially in schools one must be universal to all. Of course life isn't fair.. but it should be a fair practice to not be catering to one particular religion.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
Of course life isn't fair.. but it should be a fair practice to not be catering to one particular religion.

Agreed. Then you of course disagree with the practice of promoting one religion over another, simply because that religion happens to be in the minority?

I'm referring to the instances of allowing muslim or jewish public displays (like a menorah or star and crescent), while prohibiting Christian displays (like a nativity scene) simply because the Christian religion is the majority.




posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by RedOctober90
Of course life isn't fair.. but it should be a fair practice to not be catering to one particular religion.

Agreed. Then you of course disagree with the practice of promoting one religion over another, simply because that religion happens to be in the minority?

I'm referring to the instances of allowing muslim or jewish public displays (like a menorah or star and crescent), while prohibiting Christian displays (like a nativity scene) simply because the Christian religion is the majority.



As long as the displays are not in any way connected to the government they are fine. If you want to put up a statue of Buddah in your front yard thats up to you.

We have a nativity scene public display here at the town circle.. I think it is built by a group of volunteers. I'd disagree with any public scene if it was funded by the state.

But of course if there is a christian scene, it's only right and fair for someone else to be able to put up a display of another religion.

But I do have a problem if the Fed begun promoting one religion over another through the use of tax money.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm referring to the instances of allowing muslim or jewish public displays (like a menorah or star and crescent), while prohibiting Christian displays (like a nativity scene) simply because the Christian religion is the majority.



Whenever the Islamic symbol or Jewish star is placed on public institutions such as a court house for exampe they will also be taken down so stop your crying.

The reason why that happens is because it's always the Christians to feel it's their duty to place their religious beliefs and symbols on PUBLIC PLACES. Keyword is PUBLIC PLACES.

You don't see Muslims placing the crescent moon on top of the Capital building.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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I believe religion should be kept firmly out of schools, let people make their own minds up when they are adults, but please, no indoctrination of schoolchildren, no matter which 'god' you worship!



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
Whenever the Islamic symbol or Jewish star is placed on public institutions such as a court house for exampe they will also be taken down so stop your crying.

Who's talking about ON public places? I'm talking about in a city park or similar place.


You don't see Muslims placing the crescent moon on top of the Capital building.

And before you show your ignorance any further, it has already happened. Muslims have insisted on ringing their prayer bells five times a day without regard to anyone else.




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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I'm not sure why this has become such a big issue lately, but I have to agree their should be no organized prayer in schools.

When I was in school people would do their prayers before a game or whatever & it didn't bother anyone nor was it mandatory. If someone tried to force it on others I think I could understand the complaints, but I think it bothers some people just seeing others do it - that's sad. There was a club, but it was not affiliated with the school, they allowed flyers on the bulletin boards to inform students of meetings, but the meeting had to be held at a private residence.

I can imagine in some small towns with religious fanatics this could be a big issue.

Our educational system brainwashes people enough as it is - leave religion out of it.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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Well I do not think the school should sanction it but I do not think they should forbid it.

The next thing it will be banned at professional baseball and football games, and yes, they STILL do it.

Give em an inch and they take a mile.....



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You don't see Muslims placing the crescent moon on top of the Capital building.

And before you show your ignorance any further, it has already happened. Muslims have insisted on ringing their prayer bells five times a day without regard to anyone else.



I believe the expression that I am seeking while also trying to get more than one line in is........
And I guess that I just need to keep typing ot get there.


Here it is : OWNED!

[edit on 28-11-2004 by edsinger]

[edit on 28-11-2004 by edsinger]



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