Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

reply to post by Gryphon66

Setting all the paranoias of possibility aside for a moment ... what difference does it make as to what "creates" homosexuality?

So the parents of kids with autism are paranoid if they wonder what is causing all the autism. There is now a 1 in 88 chance a newborn will be autistic. But what difference does it make.

So the parents of Iraqi children born looking like Cyclops shouldn't question whether the depleted uranium "we" showered them with is the cause of their ruined children or they're just being paranoid.

So the black guys dying with syphilis they were "given" had no cause to question the causation of their disease because that would have been paranoid.

In preparing America for nuclear attack during the Cold War years following World War II, thousands of US citizens became the innocent victims of over 4,000 secret and classified radiation experiments conducted by the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) and other government agencies, such as the Department of Defense, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, the Public Health Service (now the CDC), the National Institutes of Health, the Veterans Administration (VA), the CIA, and NASA.

November 1993 in a series of articles in the Albuquerque Tribune which identified the names of 18 Americans secretly injected with plutonium, a key ingredient of the atomic bomb and one of the most toxic substances known to man. Some, but not all, of the patients were terminally ill. This horrifying story by journalist Eileen Welsome (who later won a Pulitzer Prize) unleashed a storm of nationwide protest prompting Department of Energy Secretary Hazel O’Leary to order the release of secret files and documents pertaining to these Cold War experiments.

www.whale.to...

You may know it NOW as the Manhattan Project. Before Eileen Welsome exposed it people were just being paranoid.

Don't worry, be happy.

reply to post by frazzle


Just like Skorpion you speak about it as if it were factual and not purely speculative. You do so based on apparently no evidence.

Don't you think you should have some strong supporting evidence before you think it a probable scenario? I repeat what I said to Skorpion. Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence. What you have presented so far is equivalent to the Joe Biden quote. Hardly anything at all. Evidence points to a steady percentage of the populace being gay, and that the perception of an increase was due to awareness.

reply to post by Gryphon66

Not all atheists subscribe to moral relativity. Some believe in moral quantum theory.

I'm not familiar with moral quantum theory at all. Wasn't able to find results with a google search either. Have some links?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Gryphon66

 

Not all atheists subscribe to moral relativity. Some believe in moral quantum theory.

I'm not familiar with moral quantum theory at all. Wasn't able to find results with a google search either. Have some links?

I'd love to provide links, unfortunately, the sites only exist as probabilities and possibilities ... so, real but not quite yet.

Maybe never. As are the somewhat wild assertions made in this discussion of late.

(I was, of course, also making a small quip at "moral relativity" as opposed to "moral relativism." Mea Culpa.)

reply to post by Gryphon66

(I was, of course, also making a small quip at "moral relativity" as opposed to "moral relativism." Mea Culpa.)

Oh sweet Raptor Jesus, how did I miss that? lol

And here I had already spent some mental energy trying to wrap my head around quantum morality.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Gryphon66

 

(I was, of course, also making a small quip at "moral relativity" as opposed to "moral relativism." Mea Culpa.)

Oh sweet Raptor Jesus, how did I miss that? lol

And here I had already spent some mental energy trying to wrap my head around quantum morality.

It actually makes some sense.

What if our individual sense of "morality" (i.e. our belief-structures) produces a collapse in the wave-form that tends to favor our paradigms at least in some incremental fashion ...

Oh, wait, that's Chaos Magick ... my bad.

@ Lucid Lunacy... I repeat what I said to Skorpion. Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence. What you have presented so far is equivalent to the Joe Biden quote. Hardly anything at all. Evidence points to a steady percentage of the populace being gay, and that the perception of an increase was due to awareness.

The Joe Biden revelation IS the 'extraordinary' evidence to back up my 'extraordinary' claim that the mass media played a major role in shaping peoples perceptions regarding homosexuality. It is your opinion that its ''hardly anything at all'' and given your opposition to my stance on this, you are obviously going to be dismiss the evidence. I've noticed in debates that people who demand evidence have a tendency to automatically dismiss any evidence when presented. No amount of evidence would prove anything to them.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I already addressed the Joe Biden quote multiple times. You just don't like the answer. All he said was the obvious. An obvious thing I not only haven't denied but have supported. Media influences peoples beliefs. Yeah.

We all influence each other. This is simply how a society functions. Who influenced the media? The shadow government? Who influenced them? Are we tracing this back to a group of people that have not been influenced by anyone? These particular people for some unexplained reason have their own genuine beliefs and no one else does? Oh wait that's right… you already explained theists are not susceptible to this machine *eye rolls*. So people that agree with you, people that are religious, this mysterious agency, and you, are immune. Every one else is not. That's quite convenient.

Your position isn't that media plays a role in shaping beliefs. You've been strongly stating none of us genuinely believe what we think we believe. You're literally talking about all of us being brainwashed. That does not follow from Joe Biden's quote. You have a very low standard for proof.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The Biden revelation isn't even a revelation. We already knew that but the fact is that media had been working hard in the other direction. The media has always been censored. Certain words could not be spoken, married couples shown to sleep in seperate beds, female body parts could not be shown to the point that Genie had to cover her belly button.

You know what really shaped peoples minds about homosexuality? Homosexuals. They stood up and said "We're here we're queer, get used to it". They fought their fight and just like women and minorities before them forced society to accept them.

That isn't a conspiracy in religion and it even isn't the reason that people are loosing faith. Those are dots that you want so bad to connect but the truth is that people in the US are actually reading the bible, analyzing it and coming to their own conclusions.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle

 

Just like Skorpion you speak about it as if it were factual and not purely speculative. You do so based on apparently no evidence.

Don't you think you should have some strong supporting evidence before you think it a probable scenario? I repeat what I said to Skorpion. Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence. What you have presented so far is equivalent to the Joe Biden quote. Hardly anything at all. Evidence points to a steady percentage of the populace being gay, and that the perception of an increase was due to awareness.

Purely speculative? A probable scenario?

Questions are the basis of scientific inquiry. If you can't answer the questions, just say so. Its no big deal, probably 99% + of the American people couldn't answer them. Of course if anyone "in the know" blew the whistle, the questions could be answered .... and they would be immediately denied by those in control of the "evidence chain".

What the evidence DOES show is that American people have been medically experimented on with no protection under the laws of god OR government.

I have no interest whatsoever in Joe Biden's quotes.

reply to post by frazzle

Questions are the basis of scientific inquiry.

I posted about that inquiry when you misused 'theory'. Remember? So I am familiar. Actually if you go back and reference it you'll see the next steps you're supposed to take after the 'question'. Once you've completed the task come back and report the findings.

Lucid Lunacy ....

We all influence each other. This is simply how a society functions.

Yes. But to constantly bombard minds with the message ''x should be accepted'' via the mass media is manipulative and done solely to achieve a purpose, i.e- get people to accept x . Choking down opposing views is downright underhanded. How is it that some people object to people giving their OWN kids a religious upbringing, calling it ''indoctrination''...even calling it ''abuse''... YET are completely indifferent to strangers telling young boys to cross-dress? That amounts to indoctrinating young minds into accepting a certain behaviour.

sk0rpi0n
Yes. But to constantly bombard minds with the message ''x should be accepted'' via the mass media is manipulative and done solely to achieve a purpose, i.e- get people to accept x . Choking down opposing views is downright underhanded.

Are you talking about all the references made to god?

How is it that some people object to people giving their OWN kids a religious upbringing, calling it ''indoctrination''...even calling it ''abuse''... YET are completely indifferent to strangers telling young boys to cross-dress? That amounts to indoctrinating young minds into accepting a certain behaviour.

What "some people" object to and what society objects to are two different things. You'll find that society is usually more accepting. There is a reason for this.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Forget values. Conservatives are always banging on about values, when some of their own values are the most bigoted and close minded values I've ever seen.

Religious fundamental conservative #wits are always banging on about the moral decline of society, and it's completely bogus nonsense. I think I previously posted in this thread that conservatives have been going on about moral decline since Moses was in diapers. It's just more and more Fox News style BS. Glen Beck getting all red in the face and what not. It's just retarded nonsense.

Real values comes from upstanding people in society. Those who are prepared to do whats right no matter the odds. Those who will not be silenced and put down and made to shut up by the thuggish conservative media.

Take back your rights people. Get vocal, get angry and don't let these fools dictate the public debate.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle

 

Questions are the basis of scientific inquiry.

I posted about that inquiry when you misused 'theory'. Remember? So I am familiar. Actually if you go back and reference it you'll see the next steps you're supposed to take after the 'question'. Once you've completed the task come back and report the findings.

edit on 23-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

Distract, deflect and deny. And then declare victory. What you want me to "come back with" are YOUR findings, which I find laughable.

You not only don't know the answers, you don't even know the questions.

Just keep believing the scientific findings of Joe Biden and you can't go wrong. ROTFL

reply to post by frazzle


I know that Lucid is going to point out the obvious to you but here's a coming attraction:

1. Lucid didn't say anything about Joe Biden, that's Skorp that keeps trying to say that one comment by one man proves the existence of a scenario spanning all world-wide media and entertainment, controlling them, and conspiring to promote one message that apparently tears Skorp of the box for some reason, to wit: gay people are people too.

2. What you think of as science is not science, bluntly. This is a synopsis of your argument:

A. There are proven episodes of Government medical experiments carried out on the population in the past.

THEREFORE

B. Any wild, baseless, speculation based on that historical idea is probably true today.

Do you see the problem, now?

Gryphon66
reply to post by frazzle

 

I know that Lucid is going to point out the obvious to you but here's a coming attraction:

1. Lucid didn't say anything about Joe Biden, that's Skorp that keeps trying to say that one comment by one man proves the existence of a scenario spanning all world-wide media and entertainment, controlling them, and conspiring to promote one message that apparently tears Skorp of the box for some reason, to wit: gay people are people too.

2. What you think of as science is not science, bluntly. This is a synopsis of your argument:

A. There are proven episodes of Government medical experiments carried out on the population in the past.

THEREFORE

B. Any wild, baseless, speculation based on that historical idea is probably true today.

Do you see the problem, now?

Yes, I see ~ something. And I hate to burst your bubble but I lost my enthusiasm for tag team matches when I was 8 years old and my dad finally took me to a midget's tag team wrestling match because I'd get so riled up watching them on the teeeveee. He'd been telling me for some time it was all fakery but I wouldn't believe him. So he got us ringside seats and I watched all those Obviously choreographed acrobatics up close and undeniable. Even a kid could see through it. Not a kid anymore, but I can still recognize tag team tactics and acrobatics when they're plastered on my computer screen

Yes, there are proven episodes of medical experiments. So therefore we should be assured that there are no longer any medical experiments being done, at least by government, at least that we know of, and what you don't know can't hurt you anyway.

Besides, its hard to imagine Obama or some congressman out there stabbing people with needles to see if they'll turn red, blue or just into acrobats. The government merely uses tax payer money to pay OTHERS who like tinkering with us. Its called research. And grants. And how on earth is a fine upstanding campaign donor and science guy supposed to do any serious research without "subjects"?

But aside from the dangerous aspects of scientific experimentation, you can be sure .gov is looking out for our health and happiness ~ here's just a few of the ways they have spent our money "studying .... things" to make us happy.

#3 The U.S. government has spent $175,587 “to determine if coc aine makes Japanese quail engage in sexually risky behavior”.

#13 The U.S. government once spent 2.6 million dollars to train Chinese prostitutes to drink responsibly.

#25 The National Institutes of Health paid researchers $400,000 to find out why gay men in Argentina engage in risky sexual behavior when they are drunk.

#27 The National Institutes of Health loves to spend our tax money on really bizarre things. The NIH once spent $800,000 in “stimulus funds” to study the impact of a “genital-washing program” on men in South Africa.

endoftheamericandream.com...

We are loved. And they'll respect us in the morning.

sk0rpi0n
Yes. But to constantly bombard minds with the message ''x should be accepted'' via the mass media is manipulative and done solely to achieve a purpose, i.e- get people to accept x . Choking down opposing views is downright underhanded. How is it that some people object to people giving their OWN kids a religious upbringing, calling it ''indoctrination''...even calling it ''abuse''... YET are completely indifferent to strangers telling young boys to cross-dress? That amounts to indoctrinating young minds into accepting a certain behaviour.

You're only seeing one side of it though and totally ignoring the fact that we are actually being bombarded from both sides. I'll agree there is influence coming from the Pro-Gay folk, but there is also equal amounts of Anti-Gay influence coming from those folk as well. Both are in the media, both are "all up in your grill" about it and neither side will shut up regardless of how much the rest of us tell them to shut their pie holes about it either. There's always influence coming at us, but you're only looking at one side, but it's not one sided. Some have just chosen to support one side or the other. Some weaker minded or more easily convinced people may actually get persuaded to one side or the other against their will, I'm sure it happens. But for the majority of us, we've chosen our sides, not from brainwashing, but out of good old decision making like we've been doing from day one.

reply to post by frazzle


If you don't want to play in public, don't post in public: use private messages.

Believing that two different members are in some sense "cooperating" AGAINST you seems overly paranoid, don't you think?Perhaps both posters simply have similar exceptions with obvious and irrational fallacies such as are being churned out?

No one here has made the claim that there are no "experiments" being done by government covertly.

The fact that government conducts covert experiments does not prove that any wild, baseless, outlandish theory about a given "experiment" is therefore reasonable, factual or provable.

It's really not that hard to understand.

Posts that offer nothing more than garden-variety anti-government rhetoric: "See OBAMA! CONGRESS!, that PROOOVES it's happening all around us, AAAAHHHH!!!" don't prove anything concrete either.

Do you have anything resembling factual evidence for your theory that sexual preference is being controlled/altered/maintained/engineered by any sort of Government experiment? I ask this particularly in light of the fact that medically, psychologically and academically, there's no strong consensus about what factor or factors even create homosexuality, aside from the general observation that it seems to happen naturally in a certain percentage of the population?

Some evidence, please, not speculation that it "could" be happening, because, ya know, they did it before?

Gryphon66
reply to post by frazzle

 

If you don't want to play in public, don't post in public: use private messages.

Believing that two different members are in some sense "cooperating" AGAINST you seems overly paranoid, don't you think?Perhaps both posters simply have similar exceptions with obvious and irrational fallacies such as are being churned out?

No one here has made the claim that there are no "experiments" being done by government covertly.

The fact that government conducts covert experiments does not prove that any wild, baseless, outlandish theory about a given "experiment" is therefore reasonable, factual or provable.

It's really not that hard to understand.

Posts that offer nothing more than garden-variety anti-government rhetoric: "See OBAMA! CONGRESS!, that PROOOVES it's happening all around us, AAAAHHHH!!!" don't prove anything concrete either.

Do you have anything resembling factual evidence for your theory that sexual preference is being controlled/altered/maintained/engineered by any sort of Government experiment? I ask this particularly in light of the fact that medically, psychologically and academically, there's no strong consensus about what factor or factors even create homosexuality, aside from the general observation that it seems to happen naturally in a certain percentage of the population?

Some evidence, please, not speculation that it "could" be happening, because, ya know, they did it before?

Against MOI? How about the paranoia revolving around any threat to the demanded upcoming changes in law?

Personally, I don't think the pro gay marriage folks have one little thing to worry about anyway. You've got all the support you could possibly ask for to get it done, the white house, congress, media, what more could you want? I'm pretty sure its all over but the crying, and that'll kick in when the separations and divorces and custody battles start dragging down an already overburdened family court system and property gets divvied up by the lawyers and somebody has to start paying alimony. Of course I suppose it could also double the chances that innocent bystanders might get mowed down in their offices by jilted spouses. Love and hate, a line as fine as frog's hair.

Did I present a "theory" on controlled sexual alterations? No, I asked a question. you VILL not QUESTION. (or else)

Anyway, this thread isn't about homosexuality, as much as some people try to make EVERY thread about homosexuality, it is about the collapse of religion and values. And to be honest, I'm not much on religion myself, at least of the organized variety. But we have been socially programmed well over a century by some real mind bending dirt bags and our values are swirling down the toilet. Its just surprising that its taken this long. Maybe this is that giant sucking sound Perot talked about. He was just being cryptic.