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Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

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posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle
 


But people within the government and the corporate business community have been working diligently behind the scenes for many years to invalidate religion ~ at least the Christian religion.

About 80% of the Nation is Christian. It makes sense that the majority of people in both Government and the corporate environment would be Christian as well. So what's the motive?


It doesn't matter what you call yourself if you are that in name only. There are all kinds of flavors in any given religion but you neglected to comment on Scofield's alterations to the bible which is now used everywhere. Oh and I forgot to mention his relationship with Harvard.

I can't speak for the veracity of the following, but these claims are probably provable one way or the other if someone cared to dredge into Scofield's background.


You will learn how he defrauded his mother in law out her life savings. And how he was convicted of forgery. In another case, was sent off to prisons. You will learn tonight how he openly carried on with other women, and abandoned his wife and family. Never sent them a dime of support. When his wife finally divorced him he married the woman with whom he was living. All the time he was writing the now infamous notes to the Scofield reference Bible.
www.preteristarchive.com...

Just the kind of guy you'd want tampering with your sacred texts.





edit on 18-2-2014 by frazzle because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 08:39 PM
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When the USA was founded, it was with the express desire that the Church and State have nothing to do with each other, and that the people should be completely free to practice whatever religion they chose to.

Many of the Founding Fathers had seen what religion had done in other countries, and didn't want the same to happen to the USA.

Moral decadence comes not from a lack of religion, but from an ease of access to consumer goods and easy access to temptation in many areas. The people of the USA use about 25% of the world's resources to support their lifestyle.

THAT is what has caused moral decay.



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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Good post! I was thinking about this myself recently, actually. My theory is that religious oppression was a very strong and prevalent force in our history, and people are swinging in the opposite direction now, sort of "trying out" new things. For example, a child that is raised in a too-strict environment has the potential to "go crazy" and rebel. I believe we, as a people, are rebelling and are in the midst of a societal regression. I think that if there is underlying forces manipulating us, they are using this to their advantage. I agree that America's morals are declining rapidly. I think it's sad and that we need to find a way to be accepting and progressive without glorifying sex and violence all of the time.



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle
 


If I was claiming that I would have said that. I said zero towards your quote. You gave me 1 to make some point. So i gave you 35. Did you read them all? There was a few from John Adams. How did they balance with yours? What did you think of all of them?


I'm sure there are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mistranslations and counterfeit passages supposedly in the Qur'an all over the internet.

Then do me a favor Frazzle. What is a legitimate website I can use to check different translations of the Quran?

I use Biblegateway.com for Christianity. What's the equivalent for Islam.

Give me that. I'll use that. Okay?


muttaqun.com... is one place to start. I don't know if there is an "equivalent" and most of my sources are saying "this page cannot be displayed" so that's the only one I can link. But if I wanted to know for sure what it says and didn't already have one, I'd get another Qur'an from the local mosque. They're happy to give them out, or at least they used to be.

No, I haven't finished reading your link, but I will. Usually when the opening statement is so provably false I stop right there but I will read yours because I'd appreciate if in return you'd read mine.



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


No, I haven't finished reading your link, but I will. Usually when the opening statement is so provably false I stop right there but I will read yours because I'd appreciate if in return you'd read mine.

I read yours right away. Unless I looked incorrectly it was only a few paragraphs. Not sure I follow your point. The first couple sentences were not even part of the 35 quotes. You wanted me to read something John Adams said but you didn't give explanation why. I figured you wanted me to infer their position on the maters we are discussing. So I had the same intention with mine..



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 09:11 PM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle
 


No, I haven't finished reading your link, but I will. Usually when the opening statement is so provably false I stop right there but I will read yours because I'd appreciate if in return you'd read mine.

I read yours right away. Unless I looked incorrectly it was only a few paragraphs. Not sure I follow your point. The first couple sentences were not even part of the 35 quotes. You wanted me to read something John Adams said but you didn't give explanation why. I figured you wanted me to infer their position on the maters we are discussing. So I had the same intention with mine..


Well, I've linked to several sites on different subjects that seem pertinent to the thread so I wasn't sure which one(s) you had read. The sentence I quoted was the first one on your linked site. Guess I could have delayed my response until I'd read the whole thing. Sorry.



posted on Feb, 18 2014 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


It doesn't matter what you call yourself if you are that in name only.

How do you know it's just in name?? Telepathy??

I don't understand why the religious are so quick to saying other believers are not really believers… are you just taking this position when it's convenient for an argument, or do you doubt most believers are believers?..


you neglected to comment on Scofield's alterations to the bible which is now used everywhere.

I didn't feel the need to. Now I do.

I haven't noticed widespread use of this. Certainly not from Christians on ATS. Maybe it's used and I just don't hear mention of it. Do you have sources showing its prevalent usage?

The most common one I see people using is probably New International Version (NIV)

According to Christianpost dot com #1 is NIV

www.christianpost.com...


**Edit: can you look this over and see if you approve of it. It appears like it's legit to me. It's also the best (as in working) site I found:

jannah.org...
edit on 18-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


Islam awakened has most of the Qurans version available
www.islamawakened.com...


At one time you could go to the Saudi embassy website which gave a link to the Pickthall version, but I cannot find a link to any versions on there now now – which is a bit odd
www.saudiembassy.net...



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 01:25 AM
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@babybunnies...When the USA was founded, it was with the express desire that the Church and State have nothing to do with each other, and that the people should be completely free to practice whatever religion they chose to.
I had mentioned in the op that certain values prevailed without the US being a theocracy. Seperation of church and state does not mean the state allows to attack, the religious / traditional institutions and norms as upheld by the majority.




Moral decadence comes not from a lack of religion, but from an ease of access to consumer goods and easy access to temptation in many areas. The people of the USA use about 25% of the world's resources to support their lifestyle.

THAT is what has caused moral decay.
Great point that has brought up for the first time in this thread. Materialism indeed plays a huge role in transforming societies. However the presence of religion would definitely play a role in at least curbing peoples inclination towards abandoning traditional values. A complete lack of it would leave people without a spiritual higher self and have them operate on their lower instincts..which is drawn naturally to material pleasures and lifestyles which of course, the media promotes and celebrates.
edit on 19-2-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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Just read through the craiglist killer thread on the front page. Chilling. The woman allegedly murdering several men she contacted for sex. What makes the story even more twisted is the ''satanic cult'' angle. Stories like this are reminders of what may ensue when you mix godlessness and people driven by their lower instincts, in that case for sex. All those men she allegedly killed were apparently soliciting sex from a stranger on the internet...who....was part of some satanic cult. Godlessness and serial killers are glorified in movies, tv shows and music. And people are horrified when its acted out in real life. Any society that celebrates filth as entertainment can expect to have filth walk among them.
edit on 19-2-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Oh gee! Things like that would never have happened in the 50's.

Just more flawed logic.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I haven’t read that thread yet so I might be jumping the gun here, but the ''satanic cult'' thing caught my eye

You do realise that to an atheist this just means that she is another a-hole with a superstition – if the ''satanic cult'' thing is true then what is there to separate what she did from the Islamic Iranian state hanging gays or some Christian killing an abortion doctor or a muslim screaming allahu akbar before exploding and killing everybody in a pizza parlor?



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 07:32 AM
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racasan...

I haven’t read that thread yet so I might be jumping the gun here, but the ''satanic cult'' thing caught my eye

You do realise that to an atheist this just means that she is another a-hole with a superstition – if the ''satanic cult'' thing is true then what is there to separate what she did from the Islamic Iranian state hanging gays or some Christian killing an abortion doctor or a muslim screaming allahu akbar before exploding and killing everybody in a pizza parlor?
then go and read that thread. Its easy to parrot the usual media programmed one dimensional ''religion bad-religion bad'' message/one-liner message. In fact, that about sums up entirely the non-theist argument around here.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Said the pot to the kettle.

2nd.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 08:35 AM
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sk0rpi0n
Stories like this are reminders of what may ensue when you mix godlessness and people driven by their lower instincts




Godlessness and serial killers are glorified in movies, tv shows and music. And people are horrified when its acted out in real life. Any society that celebrates filth as entertainment can expect to have filth walk among them.

You're suggesting horror films cause people to act out the horror films.. O_o So not only are we so susceptible to this utter mind control, but now we can't even separate fiction from reality. I better be careful tonight when I watch a vampire flick. The godlessness of it might get the best of me and ill find myself preying on innocent necks.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by frazzle
 


It doesn't matter what you call yourself if you are that in name only.

How do you know it's just in name?? Telepathy??

I don't understand why the religious are so quick to saying other believers are not really believers… are you just taking this position when it's convenient for an argument, or do you doubt most believers are believers?..


you neglected to comment on Scofield's alterations to the bible which is now used everywhere.

I didn't feel the need to. Now I do.

I haven't noticed widespread use of this. Certainly not from Christians on ATS. Maybe it's used and I just don't hear mention of it. Do you have sources showing its prevalent usage?

The most common one I see people using is probably New International Version (NIV)

According to Christianpost dot com #1 is N

**Edit: can you look this over and see if you approve of it. It appears like it's legit to me. It's also the best (as in working) site I found:

jannah.org...
edit on 18-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)
IV

Who needs to be telepathic? I didn't say they weren't believers ~ at least in something that they believe to be the truth. If the words are altered, they believe in alterations. Its really not that much different for one to know that just because school history books teach students Columbus discovered America doesn't make it true. But somebody wrote it and people believe it.

A simple search of the web shows that the Scofield bible is the most widely used version in the world and has been for many years. The reason you haven't noticed it is that they didn't bring your attention to it, any more than they would tell parents when history and social studies text books are changed from one school year to the next. But Scofield's version began altering the KJV in 1905 and the current volume has been "out there" since the 1960s. How many of us were even around then to notice? But you, yourself, called it the NEW version. What would have been wrong with reprinting the OLD version, unless they wanted to change perceptions?


The Scofield KJV continues the legacy of the committee of Evangelical scholars who edited the New Scofield Study Bible in 1967.
www.christianbook.com...


As to your linked Muslim texts, that is very interesting. Bookmarked. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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racasan
reply to post by frazzle
 


Islam awakened has most of the Qurans version available
www.islamawakened.com...

At one time you could go to the Saudi embassy website which gave a link to the Pickthall version, but I cannot find a link to any versions on there now now – which is a bit odd
www.saudiembassy.net...


Thanks for the source, it looks good. Bookmarked for later reading.

Probably shouldn't say it but I'm not really all that surprised about the Saudis removing the Qur'an, seems to me they (the royals) push extremist Wahabbi and Takfiri ideals and the Qur'an would probably be too tame.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 



You're suggesting horror films cause people to act out the horror films.. O_o So not only are we so susceptible to this utter mind control, but now we can't even separate fiction from reality. I better be careful tonight when I watch a vampire flick. The godlessness of it might get the best of me and ill find myself preying on innocent necks.



Desensitization also refers to reduced responsiveness to actual violence caused by exposure to violence in the media.[8] Desensitization may arise from different sources of media including TV, video games and movies.

en.wikipedia.org...(psychology)


Dust begets dust. Hatred and violence beget hatred and violence.

Happiness and laughter are contagious, too. Not many movies out there spreading happiness, maybe some laughter at the cartoons, though.






edit on 19-2-2014 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by frazzle
 


Just a heads up, you are walking down a path with this response by suggesting things about scientific theory that you don't want to walk down. I know what you are getting at and I'm just going to tell you, that you are wrong. I could tell all this by the fact that you capitalized the entire word "theory" and I because of that I already know what you are thinking. Just stop.


Whoa, what button did I push this time? Turn it around, this kind of response could have come from some fire and brimstone fundamentalist preacher when challenged to prove God exists or that a burning bush spoke to Moses.

See? Two sides of the same coin.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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frazzle
See? Two sides of the same coin.

No, it isn't.

I guess people are just getting tired of the "science is a religion" fallacy. Even when explained why they are not the same people keep throwing it out there.



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