Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Ok

Well then can you at least understand that not everybody thinks like you?

That not everybody gets their views about other people from Bronze Age fairy tales?

That some people could decide on their own without the influence of the illuminate or little gray aliens or whoever to include Gay rights as a legitimate civil rights issue?

sk0rpi0n

@Gryphon66...

In short, your posts claim they're the same but then immediately claim that they're different.

They are the ''same'' when it comes to power of influence. They are ''different'' when it comes to morality.

I don't see any difference in morality:

Those who control media demonstrably desire money and power.

Those who controlled religion demonstrably desired money and power.


I'd like to see an argument for the inherent morality of the pursuit of money and power. Can you provide us with one?

@AfterInfinity...

I don't see homosexuals trying to ban heterosexual marriage

They can't. Because without heterosexual unions, humans would go extinct.

or whining that prayer in schools hasn't been made a part of the official curriculum.

Just why would they whine about the lack of prayer in schools?

@AfterInfinity...

I don't see homosexuals trying to ban heterosexual marriage

They can't. Because without heterosexual unions, humans would go extinct.

or whining that prayer in schools hasn't been made a part of the official curriculum.

Just why would they whine about the lack of prayer in schools?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I don't see the extinction of the human species being a problem, but that's just my opinion.

@Gryphon66...I don't see any difference in morality:

Those who control media demonstrably desire money and power.

Yet atheists allow the media to shape their perceptions of certain issues. You don't want a theist telling you ''X'' behaviour is wrong. But you are ok with the media telling you ''X'' is acceptable and normal. Why?

Those who controlled religion demonstrably desired money and power.


I'd like to see an argument for the inherent morality of the pursuit of money and power. Can you provide us with one?

The mass media makes its money through advertising revenue. You pay it....for telling you whats ''acceptable''.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


What has media told us is acceptable and normal?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnPassant

 

Your point here still being that religion is the only reliable source of morality?

No, spirituality is. If we lose sight of the spiritual we will lose everything.

reply to post by EnPassant


Spirituality and religion are not synonymous.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

What has media told us is acceptable and normal?

For one ....

FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves.

The courts agreed.

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

www.dailykos.com...

Two Fox journalists refused to lie to the people about the dangers of Monsanto's bovine growth hormones in food and they were fired for insisting on telling the truth. Lies for the body and lies for the soul. Progress. We're evolving into a better society thanks to a bunch of liars. Who could ask for more.

reply to post by frazzle


Then stop listening to FOX. And that has nothing to do with spirituality or secular society.

sk0rpi0n

@ Gryphon66... Let's leave the civil rights comparisons to the side then:

The gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered, who are American citizens have rights because they are American citizens.

Please explain to us how one American citizen should be treated differently before the law than another.

Equal rights don't spring from sexuality, but from citizenship.

There were always American citizens decades ago who were homsexual. They kept a low profile because of societal norms that defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. They went from that to parading in the streets and marrying and adopting and beating up Christians because of changes that took place. The issue of ''citizenship'' does not mean people redefine things like marriage and family.

So you are saying that because in the past, discriminating against homosexuals was the norm, therefore it is not only right but justified? Also show me proof of all these homosexuals who are beating up Christians. I've yet to see coverage of this apparent plague of homosexuals who are going around and beating the tar out of unsuspecting Christians.

Marriage isn't the sole domain of religion either. Marriage in one form or another has popped up in literally EVERY society in existence. Christians stole the idea of marriage and pretend like they invented it or something. But this is completely untrue. Marriage is just a contract between a two individuals to stay faithful, look out for each other, and love each other. Religion and government try to put their own "rules" into marriage, but all that does is obscure the true intent, that it is an act of love not religion or government. And if that love is shared by two individuals of the same sex, then so be it.

sk0rpi0n

@Gryphon66...I don't see any difference in morality:

Those who control media demonstrably desire money and power.

Yet atheists allow the media to shape their perceptions of certain issues. You don't want a theist telling you ''X'' behaviour is wrong. But you are ok with the media telling you ''X'' is acceptable and normal. Why?

You do not understand atheism or agnosticism if you think that we let the media tell us what to think. As an agnostic, I let skepticism, critical thought, and probability shape my world view. I look up as much information about a topic as I can (all sides of an argument) then using skepticism and playing the odds, I determine the most likely answer to the question. It's all quite analytical really and has nothing to do with letting someone else tell me what to think. Your disconnect comes from the fact that you think that non-religious people behave like religious people and naturally want to fill the void of a preacher so turn to media, but if that were true they'd be religious.

Those who controlled religion demonstrably desired money and power.


I'd like to see an argument for the inherent morality of the pursuit of money and power. Can you provide us with one?

The mass media makes its money through advertising revenue. You pay it....for telling you whats ''acceptable''.

edit on 16-2-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Religion makes its money through coercing its patrons to tithe every week. In reality they are paying for religion so that religion can tell them what's "acceptable." Still want to see what the difference between religion and media is.

reply to post by frazzle


What does that prove? Fox News' top anchors are all fundamentalist Christians. They certainly aren't parroting secular views that are brainwashing the public like the OP claims. They are the ones were this whole argument about an "attack on Christianity" even came from. So in a roundabout way, the OP's views ACTUALLY originated from the media that he is claiming is influencing the secularists. What's worse is that the media that is influencing the OP is the top rated news channel. You of course just proved that Fox News is allowed to lie on the air and will fight for the right to do so. Of course it is not surprising that Christians would fall for this brainwashing, media and religion are just two different forms of the same brainwashing.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I'm not going to argue your position for you nor answer any more loaded questions.

I demonstrated clearly how religion and media are motivated by the same things and it's not morality.

Do you have a claim to make about how the pursuit of money and power are moral? Or not.

swanne
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Welcome to marxism.

Wtf? Im so tired of people (usually conservatives or people who are uneducated or both) saying everything is communism and marxism and socialism.
marx developed a ideology that confronted social injustice and now these morons use it every chance they can. Obama is a psycho corporate and business appeaser. The guy talks about the rich but he helps them at every corner. Then the morons tell socialism... If Obama is socialist.. Then HOLY # YOUR GOING TO HATE IT WHEN WE GET A REAL LEFTIST LEADER. IDIOTS. I've seen alot of posts recently slandering leftist ideals. Is ats all conservatives now? Or is the paid disinfo agent cointelpro 2.0 in full swing? # out of here and die you racist capitalist white power freak

>>
allow the media to shape their perception
>>

This is just nonsense.

We have the freedom to decide whether we let media influence ourselves or not. (We, for our part here for instance didn't watch TV in about a decade). I have the freedom to decide whether I I go on CNN, Fox or whatever website to get "my news" or can even decide not to bother with them IN THE SLIGHTEST.

Even if I choose to have the media "influence" me I still have a healthy criticism inside me to not take anything I see/read "in the media" at face value. In other words: I have CHOICES.

You, and Christians and whatever do NOT have a choice. You learn your "rules" out of a book and believe something because a priest tells you. You don't EVEN HAVE THE OPTION to say "hey, this doesn't make sense, this is not consistent"...because if you do you're a non-believer. A fundamentalist, Muslim, Christian etc. is OBLIGATED to have an anti-gay stance because this is what is indoctrinated into them - without even a slight choice to develop a different opinion. TALK to us about brainwashing.... PUUUULEAHSE.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


That paradigm was present 2000 plus years ago and here is a concise response to that:

The Parable of the Sower13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Pearls before swine...

AfterInfinity
reply to post by frazzle

 

Then stop listening to FOX. And that has nothing to do with spirituality or secular society.

edit on 16-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

So you buy into the illusion of choice in newscasters?

You don't do nuance apparently. The underlying message here is that ANY journalist who might try to spill the beans and inform the people of what's going on behind the scenes will be fired and have their careers in media ended because all of the choices are owned by the same six corporations.

www.businessinsider.com...

What popular media's and pop culture's lies have to do with spirituality is boundless. Its about who and what you believe. Non believers castigate people for what they believe, but seem to think their own beliefs should be accepted as superior and inviolate, even if they're based on lies and distortions spread by schools and the infotainment media.

Actually I agree with whoever it was that posted the "its going to take an extinction level event" for people to figure out what's wheat and what's chaff. Then maybe the survivors will take another look at the ancients religions, the sun god not the son of god, and the sun's helpmate, mother earth, both of which demonstrably have the power to create and destroy life. Without those two "gods" we would BE extinct.

Sorry for going on a personal tangent.

frazzle
So you buy into the illusion of choice in newscasters?

Sure, you can choose not to believe any of them.

What popular media's and pop culture's lies have to do with spirituality is boundless. Its about who and what you believe. Non believers castigate people for what they believe, but seem to think their own beliefs should be accepted as superior and inviolate, even if they're based on lies and distortions spread by schools and the infotainment media.

You forgot that churches are aslo part of the information dept. They just serve a different demographic.