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Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

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posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


There have been evil non religious as well, Stalin, Hussein, Hitler (nominal religious).

I'm so tired of the religious denying Hitler's association with religious belief.

It was all lip service. He didn't really believe. Whatever. I could say the same of you. You don't really believe. It's nominal. Do I have grounds to make that claim?

Read the Mein Kampf. Have you?




posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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The most shocking thing in the last 2 decades in particular has been the decline in moral values. Sociol engineering has played a major part, and I just want to throw out another angle on this whole topic...

Many ATS'ers I'm sure will have seen the stories of the satanic rituals so many of the global leaders of recent past and present engaged in, bearing this in mind if we look at the central belief of satanism 'do what thou wilt' - meaning basically do whatever you want, no matter what the effect of it may be (good or bad is irrelevant), if it feels good then 'just do it'. This central belief of satanism is now as one analyst put it 'how most people live, most of the time'.

Considering this I am not surprised, that the moral compass of mankind as a whole has gone haywire. Religion is now seen as anti-progressive, no longer relevant in influenicing sociey as a whole and is kept behind closed doors as something only for the self. If we look at the chaotic and uncertain times that we are living in, it is hard to say we have really progressed...



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by Kamza
 


Can you show us evidence for any of that? The Arkansas Satanists adhere to a list of tenets which respect all creatures and promote scientific knowledge. I don't see anything in there about clinging to stereotypes. In fact, this so-called "central belief of Satanism" doesn't even appear in that list. So really, I'd love to see where you're getting your information.
edit on 15-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


Considering that no single person has said this,
in the past six years I've been reading ATS,
that no one has said this, in this thread,
that no Christian I have ever met said
this either..

All. The. Time.

I've been a reader of ATS since 2003. Every single year Christians say this on ATS.

There was a thread not long back were another Christian stated his shock at this accusation. Claimed he had never seen it on ATS. Said it doesn't happen. Guess what? That same thread not a few posts later another Christian went on and on about how he would personally like to transport atheists by train to hell. Transport them by the "heaps".

I don't know what to say. Read more threads. It's there plenty.
edit on 15-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:02 PM
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Never mind.
edit on 15-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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AfterInfinity

ik9zeroE

AfterInfinity

ik9zeroE

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ik9zeroE
 


Oh, now this list explains your thread on psychiatry being the antichrist
edit on 15-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


My flawlessly accurate list?


...No. Here's my thought on that list:



Kudos to Klassified for this one.

edit on 15-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Where are all the mature adults?

Very, very serious question.


I guess I have to explain it. See, a lot of what you're talking about seems to be a byproduct of "freedom of information". We want to know something, we can find out in a matter of minutes or seconds. This also leaves plenty of room for misinformation and finely crafted advertisements designed to plant seeds and cultivate movements. "Freedom of information" applies just as much to those who want to talk as it does to those who want to listen. Freedom doesn't mean you are restricted to only the purely constructive and purely productive forms of activity. That's called censorship. So what you're suggesting is censoring our culture because it offends your personal definition of "appropriate"?

Because that's what it sounds like to me.
edit on 15-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


How does freedom of information and censorship come about from asking, where are all the mature adults? Social programming, perhaps?

How does that saying go, "beam me up, scotty" ??



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by ik9zeroE
 


I was elaborating on my earlier point, but you seem to be intent on dodging it entirely.



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:35 PM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by ik9zeroE
 


I was elaborating on my earlier point, but you seem to be intent on dodging it entirely.


In my eyes, you have no point.



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


I said society will become morally bankrupt without true spirituality. Religion is another question.

No. You responded to a member asking what the source of that morality should be.


This has been the role of the Church for a long time. And the Church is often criticized for being 'authorative' and overbearing. I would not be so hard on the Church. Priest are not stupid. They have always known that people need leadership and without it the bonds in society would become undone.

You said society needed religious leadership for morality or else it comes undone. Christian Religion.

Now you're changing it to 'spirituality from any system of spirituality'. That's a big shift. Not a bad one in contrast

edit on 15-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 08:45 PM
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ik9zeroE

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ik9zeroE
 


I was elaborating on my earlier point, but you seem to be intent on dodging it entirely.


In my eyes, you have no point.


And yet you expect me to maintain an open or even accepting mind when considering your own position in the matter.



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


I said that without spiritual substance the world will become morally bankrupt. The countries you mentioned are not non But you will never see my point. I believe that the world is sustained by God's grace. If we don't have that grace, through neglect, the world will fall into darkness. This kind of thinking is, apparently, not acceptable to you so you will never see my argument as I do.


I see your point I just don't agree it has any basis in reality. Your argument completely relies on your biblical god being objectively true. You of course don't have strong evidence for this. You have faith. So no I don't agree with your argument. I think beliefs should have strong reason behind them.

If I had belief in a creator god that said everything you just stated is not true. What then? You can't prove my god is not objectively true for the same reason you can't prove your own is true. If there is a Creator it could completely disagree with both of us all on all the points we have discussed.


edit on 15-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 10:07 PM
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"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will" is the central tenet of Thelema not Satanism.

The bit about Ritual Satanistic Abuse, etc, etc, has long, long been debunked.

Virtually the only real "Satanists" are members of the Church of Satan who are avowedly non-theistic.

I know there's absolutely no reason to repeat these facts once again, particularly to those who base their entire reality function on belief. It doesn't matter whether something is objectively true or not ... all one has to do is believe.

Belief, by the same brand that brought you the Dark Ages, the Inquisition and the Third Reich: Christianity, everybody.



posted on Feb, 15 2014 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Sure you did it was in the part of the post that I quoted.

As far as your other reply to me, you think the media handed down as religion is from god. Who told you this?

I can't believe you can say any of that and still try to tell people that "they" have been brainwashed.



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 01:41 AM
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boymonkey74
reply to post by mikegrouchy
 



I have had it said to me also on ATS and in my work, on the street and on my bloody doorstep so don't tell me people don't say it!.
edit on 15-2-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


Then why beat up the people here
on this forum
about it? When you actually know who said it. Take it up with them. And this doesn't change the fact that what I said is true. No one has said it to me, and even if someone does I certainly won't bother the world with it. I'll take it up with them directly.

But I imagine none of this helps in any way. Here we are debating he-said she-said and drifting off the point. In my opinion someone is carrying around a card-board cut out of someone and arguing with it, as though it were real. But I don't think it's the Christian in the specific case of this discussion in this thread.

Mike Grouchy



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 01:46 AM
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Lucid Lunacy

I've been a reader of ATS since 2003. Every single year Christians say this on ATS.



Then take it up with them.

Don't berate the Christian in this thread for something they never said, in the process of taking shots at some card-board cut out memory of a troll from another thread. Can't we just be _here_ right now. Or have I interrupted some kind of baggage war. The best way to beat a Christian in a debate is out predict them. But this. This is just creating petulance and entrenched positions.

Mike Grouchy



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


Then take it up with them.

Oh I do.

I bet when I do you'd call me out on that too.


Don't berate the Christian in this thread for something they never said

I don't believe I ever said a Christian in this thread said it. I was being objective. What you said was simply not reflective of ATS.

That said, even if Christians don't voice it. It's a belief held in many denominations of Christianity that unrepentant sinners are not making it through the pearly gates.


in the process of taking shots at some card-board cut out memory of a troll from another thread.

I'm sorry if that example doesn't jive with you. If you'd like I can keep you in mind and continue to link the instances to you in PM.
edit on 16-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 





All I see is posturing. The sound and the fury. All these debates might not be so bad, If we knew who was behind it all.





Atheist worship, thought they won't call it that, the question is "what do they worship?" Just because there is a millennia of traditions about a group of people who decided to consciously pick what they have faith in, doesn't grant carte blanch to prosecute them for not knowing who is really on top of the pyramid. Neither does anyone else. Besides. By consciously picking what they have faith in, they are in a position to notice when others go too far in exhibiting faith in tangible objects. Like Money.


But the debate in this thread, reads like a couple of members on an extermination mission using fire to commit meme-o-cide.

Mike Grouchy



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


All I see is posturing.

There have been many arguments from many members directly related to the OP. Many questions that have gone unanswered by Skorpion. Strong evidence has been presented against his theory.

Can you take a side. For or against. If you're for it then give an argument for it. Otherwise, are you not just posturing yourself?...


Atheist worship, thought they won't call it that, the question is "what do they worship?"

Correct atheists wouldn't call it that. There is no single enitity being worshiped. Atheists have no universal doctrine that unifies them save for reason itself. Atheism isn't a religion.


Just because there is a millennia of traditions about a group of people who decided to consciously pick what they have faith in, doesn't grant carte blanch to prosecute them

Beliefs should aways be questioned. Which is what is happening in this thread. When they get questioned it amounts to persecution from the faithful. As I suggested from the threads start.



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 03:08 AM
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Lucid Lunacy

Can you take a side. For or against. If you're for it then give an argument for it. Otherwise, are you not just posturing yourself?...




As no man can defend themselves against charges of hypocrisy, I concede the point.
I have no virtual witness to step forward and attest to my character.




I only ask that as the discussion continues stop toying with him and make it quick. Be merciful. The coup de grâce.


Mike Grouchy



posted on Feb, 16 2014 @ 03:11 AM
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mikegrouchy
Atheist worship, thought they won't call it that, the question is "what do they worship?"

With this you seem to be doing the very thing you are telling others not to do.


Just because there is a millennia of traditions about a group of people who decided to consciously pick what they have faith in, doesn't grant carte blanch to prosecute them for not knowing who is really on top of the pyramid.

But it does give a reason to inform them of what they may not know.
edit on 16-2-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



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