Proof of existense of god

I've been thinking about something very simple that really has no scientific or religious explanations. First off, let me say that I'm someone who has more open minded beliefs which doesn't fit neatly into any mainstream set of beliefs. I don't believe that Creationism and science are entirely exclusive in the sense I don't believe that both evolution and the Big Bang theory discount Creationism, instead they're simply the methods of how we got here which doesn't discount a God.

Let's put religious beliefs aside for a moment. Think of god not in the sense of any specific religion, but rather, as a being or entity simply beyond our measure or comprehension for the sake of this thread. Okay, now on to the main subject, it's really simple but mind boggling at the same time.

Anyway, lets jump back 13 billion years, to the big bang, before earth, galaxies and our current Universe. Okay so, that's where science and region ends. Now lets go back further, what created the energy that was, prior to the Big Bang, energy contained within empty space that expanded and formed into what we have now? Lets go back even further, what created the seemingly infinite, empty space that contained that energy, before that energy was there?

Where did this empty space come from, and how long ago? And where did the energy that was, come from? Not the Big Bang itself, but the energy that was condensed all that time before, where did that originate from?

You can't create from nothingness and everything has an origin to be traced back. Wouldn't you say there must be an "entity" of some sort, much beyond our current comprehension, that would have created this empty space? It may seem unbelievable to some, but again, I said this entity would be extremely beyond our comprehension for our brains to fathom.

That leads me to my next question, with this entity in mind, what are "their" origins?


All (respectful) opinions welcomed.

Maybe the universe was never created? What if it has been here forever already and will continue to exist forever into the future? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, meaning the universe (which is nothing but energy) could have never been created and can never be destroyed.

What if our big bang wasn't the first, but only one among an infinite number of others that came before and will continue to come after? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms. Maybe the universe in its current form is only a change from its previous form?

Since the universe is eternal, maybe the universe is this "greater being" that some call God? It's definitely greater than us and it is definitely beyond our comprehension. If that's the case, we are all part of God and have never been separate from "him" and never will be. What if we're in heaven right now? What if the universe is the Kingdom of God, the eternal realm of everlasting perfection? Everything is preserved, everything is perfectly fine tuned to harbor life, and it will always be that way.

Just some questions to consider. S&F

reply to post by kx12x


In my opinion, gods, of any sorts, have had their day, and are now just artificial cultural identifiers that really should have little to no real influence(s) in the advancement and growing maturity of mankind.

Thus, even if there were "proof" for the literal actual existence of any divine personality, creator or no, such existence, and/or even active participation in the future direction of mankind would be more detrimental in fostering a dependence than in promoting the growth and expansion of mankind in self discovery through direct interactions and observations of this vastly gigantic Universe.

Gods are things that only enforce a child-parent dependency.
No gods forces mankind to grow up and find its own solutions.

Mankind needs independence from these mythologies to grow.

If there's proof of any god(s), it'd be more damaging than productive.

We don't need them.
We've been doing fairly well without them.
We'll do better the longer any potential god personalities stay away.

reply to post by kx12x


there wasn't an "empty space", it was 'nothingness'. thre is a difference.

taoistguy
reply to post by kx12x

 

there wasn't an "empty space", it was 'nothingness'. thre is a difference.

That's deep!

Gonna think on that for a while. To me, its the enigma of all questions regarding the origin of the universe...

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


exactly.

the tao that can...aw, you know what i mean.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


We may not need the gods of this world that were created within the imaginations of men, but what we do need is here already, the infinite system of preservation that we are a part of. Without it, we wouldn't be here right now.

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

- Carl Sagan

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Maybe the universe was never created? What if it has been here forever already and will continue to exist forever into the future? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, meaning the universe (which is nothing but energy) could have never been created and can never be destroyed.

The universe could very well be infinte. But even things that are infinite, must start somewhere to be as they are, to exist. Numbers are a good example I think.

Since the universe is eternal, maybe the universe is this "greater being" that some call God? It's definitely greater than us and it is definitely beyond our comprehension. If that's the case, we are all part of God and have never been separate from "him" and never will be. What if we're in heaven right now? What if the universe is the Kingdom of God, the eternal realm of everlasting perfection? Everything is preserved, everything is perfectly fine tuned to harbor life, and it will always be that way.

I had thought of the same thing, that what if we are actually part of this entity. But that brings me back to the last question in my OP, what are the origins of this entity, or God? So many unknowns to our tiny existence! Kind of makes you wonder, but I suppose we'll find out if/when we are supposed to.

reply to post by kx12x


there IS no beginning (or 'end'). it just 'is'. (or appears to 'be'.)

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Well, I get what you mean and that could be very subjective. Some people might agree while others might see things differently (as we all know well) so I don't want to go too much into that. What I'm really interested in is, the beginning of all beginnings, the very start, not of humans or galaxies, but of "existence" itself.

reply to post by taoistguy


When I said space, I meant the space in which the energy that the Big Bang was contained in. Nothingness, in my opinion, is what predates the existence of that energy. I know that by our understanding, energy cannot be created or destroyed, but that doesn't apply to something well beyond our comprehension and capabilities. Kind of like trying to explain colors to someone who has never had vision, except on a much larger and seemingly infinitely more complex scale.

reply to post by kx12x


but if the big bang or the singularity existed in a nothingness, the that singularity\big bang was everywhere and everything.
but you say there was some type of energy before the big bang...stop thinking in absolutes and 'things'...they cancel each other out. what 'is' (or was - same thing), is something (or nothing) else entirely.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


i like your theory

There was one time, i came up with the same answer when i imagine myself as other beings on other galaxies etc in star wars like scenario.

peace.

reply to post by kx12x


Numbers do not have a start, even negative numbers are "real" numbers and they go infinitely in the negative direction just like positive numbers do in the positive direction. There is no need for a beginning, why would there be? If energy had no beginning then neither did the universe because it IS energy.

I think with our limited time here on Earth, we tend to think that since we have a (supposed) beginning and end then so must everything else. This is not the case. Even your body is energy, meaning it was never created nor can it ever be destroyed, it will only change forms. Your consciousness is energy, so it was never created nor can it ever be destroyed, it can only change forms.

Everything is eternal because everything is energy. Our limited perspective and time on this planet is not the beginning and it will not be the end, we have just forgotten where we came from and what we are, which is the eternal and infinite system experiencing and trying to know itself.

reply to post by taoistguy


There was a type of energy before the big bang, the same energy that came out of the big bang and formed the universe we see around us. That energy had to come from somewhere right?

Something cannot come from nothing, meaning that energy was somewhere before it exploded into everything we see. It was there all along, only in a different form than what we see now.

reply to post by kx12x


I believe quite strongly in an eternal cosmos. If that's uncreated and perfectly self-sustaining, what's the need for an artificer?

If we are to define god itself as eternity, and all the mechanisms intrinsic to it, then I am willing to acknowledge god exists in the form of that eternal cosmos. A religious god? Creationism? Where is the philosophical argument for that? You merely gave some for a deistic god at best. And yes I know you said to excuse that but you mentioned Creationism so I felt it was fair game

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


i don't believe in Something and Nothing. but you are right. what is has always been and always will.

reply to post by kx12x


There is something that will help you understand infinity...

your mind's eye.


What is the depth of your consciousness? If you never died, how far can you move things apart from one another in your mind's eye?

Where does the light of your mental images come from and by what will / spirit do you create the images with?

And what makes you think space is any different?


Also, science / math is the way we measure things in reality but it does not mean that is how they are. There could be things we are just unable to perceive which is the true measure of reality.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


i like your analogy of numbers. i see it that 1 leads to 2 leads to 3, etc. and backwards as well. i see it like a great circle (cycle?) and numbers are just points on it, it has no bginning or end.

Bleeeeep
reply to post by kx12x

 

There is something that will help you understand infinity...

your mind's eye.


What is the depth of your consciousness? If you never died, how far can you move things apart from one another in your mind's eye?

Where does the light of your mental images come from and by what will / spirit do you create the images with?

And what makes you think space is any different?


Also, science / math is the way we measure things in reality but it does not mean that is how they are. There could be things we are just unable to perceive which is the true measure of reality.

edit on 2/11/2014 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)

i would have said:

"Also, science / math is the way we measure things in a limited understanding of physicality and matter"