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UK ordering first 14 F-35's

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posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Yeah, I kinda am.




posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Yeah, I kinda am.


Not to do with that new air to air missle Russia has in development? IE the one you dont know about until it has already killed you? forgot its its name.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


There are several new threats coming out in the next 10 years or so. If we don't keep advancing our technology then we're going to be caught and passed by new weapons coming down the pipeline.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


IR missile approach warning system. No missile is undetectable. And the launch platform will be detected. Try to sneak up on an F-22.
I think they should've spent all the F-35 money on the F-22. The marines can have F-22s and strengthen the landing gear and the navy can have them too. Too late now I bet the US navy drool over the F-22. Mach 2.6+ at 60,000ft+ supercruise at Mach 1.7 unmatched range, agility and high alpha capability. It is one incredible jet. Some maintenance issues but it is the greatest fighter ever made. Big fan of the F-22 not so much it's smaller slower crappier sibling the F-35. What happened to beckybecky didn't she see a jet once and win?



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


How about one of those eclectic hints your so famous for.....



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Lasers? Particle cannons?



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by JimTSpock
 


No, actually the K-77M is as close to undetectable as a missile will get. There's no radar beam for a TEWS system to pick up, as it's LPI and dispersed. It will be undetectable until it's too late. And there are non-US stealth platforms coming that will have surprisingly good stealth systems on them. Not as good as the US and her Allies, but pretty damn good still.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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JimTSpock

IR missile approach warning system. No missile is undetectable. And the launch platform will be detected. Try to sneak up on an F-22.

Not from what I read. Infact it may have been zaphod that posted about it a few months back. Russia have a new Air to Air missle that you bascialy wont know it there till it hits you.

JimTSpock
I think they should've spent all the F-35 money on the F-22.

Not much good for the rest of NATO though as you cant export it.
Though Im guessing the UK and some other the other really close allies like Australia may have been able to get a exception.


JimTSpock
What happened to beckybecky didn't she see a jet once and win?

Probably gone crying to uncle teddy



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by JimTSpock
 


No, actually the K-77M is as close to undetectable as a missile will get. There's no radar beam for a TEWS system to pick up, as it's LPI and dispersed. It will be undetectable until it's too late. And there are non-US stealth platforms coming that will have surprisingly good stealth systems on them. Not as good as the US and her Allies, but pretty damn good still.


As its non USA can you tell us what it is?

edit on 19-2-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


I don't have hard data on them, but from what I've heard both the T-50 and J-21 have pretty low RCS values. And the J-31 is near the F-117 in the early years. Not as good as what you'll see on the F-22, or even the B-2 with the new coatings (which are freaking awesome), but good enough to let them get a lot closer than you want them to be.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


IR missile approach warning system detects IR heat energy from the approaching missile, not radar energy. Thus LPI radar on missile is irrelevant. Details and capabilities of system are classified but the F-22 has it and I think the F-35.

Also the F-22s advanced threat warning system can pick up LPI radar emissions. Again the launch platform will be detected and it will have to get closer to the F-22 than the F-22 needs to be to detect it. So the F-22 still gets first look first shot first kill.

A traditional radar is like a flashlight beam and the LPI radar is more like a fluorescent light. They both still emit electromagnetic radiation in the radar spectrum and can both be detected. The LPI is lower in intensity and harder to detect but there are still radar emissions there to bounce off the target and create a radar return. The IR and radar energy emitted by aircraft and missiles are both electromagnetic radiation traveling at light speed at different wavelengths and can be detected. You just need a more sensitive detector for LPI radar. A bit of physics.
edit on 19-2-2014 by JimTSpock because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by JimTSpock
 


There are ways around an IR detector.

As for the LPI aspect, the missile isn't using its own radar until it's within 12-15 miles, already traveling at high Mach numbers. It's using steering from the launch aircraft until that point, so there is nothing from the missile to detect. By the time that it turns its own radar on, you have a few seconds to see it, recognize it, and react. There is almost nothing out there that has a countermeasure system out there that can defeat it. Even if the F-22 can detect the radar of the launch platform, if they put it on everything from MiG-29s to SU-35s, 187 F-22s aren't going to last long, and the rest of the inventory is screwed.

I have sources in both the EW, and military, and every one of them says the same thing. The K-77M is a very real, very scary threat, and it is the equivalent of playing checkers against someone playing chess. There are a couple of platforms that can defeat it, but they are few and in small numbers. The vast majority of the Allied fleet is dead.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


If you say so. But yes that is correct the missiles own radar is small and is only used in terminal guidance. Even a non LPI missile is dangerous. Still you have to lock on and track the target to hit and good luck if it's an F-22. You won't lock on to it before it can kill you.
Even with the LPI missile you won't get an F-22. It will get you.
edit on 19-2-2014 by JimTSpock because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by JimTSpock
 


This one is much worse. An average missile will use its radar sooner, and have a better chance of being detected. The K-77 changes the game completely, and if used correctly you won't even see its radar at all, without a system capable of detecting an LPI signal. Right now that's an F-22 and F-35.

That means that an F-15, or a B-52 or just about everything else is going to be flying along, and the first they know they've been fired on is when the missile explodes. Don't forget also that some of the Russian planes have a tail mounted LPI radar, so Allied pilots may not even know they were targeted, let alone that they were fired upon. And once the T-50 comes into service, they may not even know the launch platform is even there.

There are currently 185 F-22s. Any Russian plane in the inventory can carry a K-77M once it enters service. So all 185 F-22s are going to be able to defeat the entire Russian Air Force? The F-22 isn't invincible. They will eventually be worn down, and wiped out, just like the rest of the inventory. It's just going to take longer, and be harder to do.
edit on 2/19/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


That's an interesting idea. And in fact yes I think the F-22 fleet could defeat the entire Russian air force. If not they would certainly get a big kill ratio.

Even if a modern non LPI missile gets that close and locks on to you at 20 or 15 nm that is very dangerous and very hard to avoid. I try to dodge R-77s in the flight sim Falcon 4.0 Allied Force and that close they hit almost all the time and are very hard to dodge in the F-16C. Don't know how they are in real life but LPI or not it is very deadly.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I can see the reasoning behind the push for DE counter measures. If the K-77M only turns on its radar (and thus is only truly detectable) seconds before impact then kill lasers would be the only thing that would have the time to counter such a threat.
Would this be a correct train of thought?



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by JimTSpock
 


Now imagine an R-77 with an AESA radar, and potentially thrust vectoring. That's what the Allies are up against with the K-77M.

The F-22 will lose eventually. They may wrack up a huge kill ratio, but knowing the tactics that would be used against them, they would lose.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Sammamishman
 


It's one of the countermeasures being developed and pushed hard to counter this missile. There are a couple others in the pipeline but lasers are going to be the fastest to make it into use. They're already in limited use on some platforms, but they're pretty short ranged, and only really good for MANPADS type systems.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I can envision a day in the not too distance future when bays and wings are no longer slung with racks of missiles and compact FEL's are the only weapon found on an aircraft.



posted on Feb, 19 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I respectfully disagree. I don't think the Russian air force is capable of killing 187 F-22s. What to they have? Flankers and Fulcrums. That is like shooting fish in a barrel for the F-22. The K-77 is very deadly but it is still launched by non stealthy Flankers and Fulcrums who can't even detect the F-22 until they get close at which point the F-22 has already killed them. F-15s and F-16s on the other hand may have some problems.

Well boys I reckon this is it full scale combat toe to toe with the Ruskies. How did it come to this?
edit on 19-2-2014 by JimTSpock because: add



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