The Origins of Gnosticism

Gnosticism has been around from past cycles, ie 11 000 years and much longer. Its the old knowledge, shrouded in the mists of Atlantis and known in the East, in the Taoist alchemy, which is about the precious pearl, being forming your light body, your Chi, abdoment, energy, going within to the kingdom of heaven, astral projections and waking up, overcoming the body suit.

The only problem is, there isn't just one gnostic sect that has one set of answers. Its about seeing, knowing, understanding, comprehending ancient writings and texts. There is a pure gnosis, void of all groups and organization, that is what all seekers would be developing.

However the original groups could be seen as survivors and keeping the ancient knowledge alive, yet hidden. That's the only aspect that I question. For if they hid it only to save their lives and preserve the wisdom, not meaning for the masses to be misguided, thats one thing. But those passages have murdered and enslaved many, and mistreated women and children. If done at the commands of kings to provide a path for the intelligent who can see, while they enslave the masses, then that group is one of the worst criminals in the universe right up there with the other crimes of murder, torture. You cannot lie to people, abuse people, lord it over people, enslave people, blame them for not seeing, you cannot set traps for people, dig pits for others to fall in. You are 100% responsible for being truthful, helpful, nurturing, assisting, and freeing all other people, because the opposite means you will wear it.

The pit you dig, you alone fall into. Those you led there will be saved and cleaned up easily. But the dark plotters who were in more responsible positions and actually gained from the lies and slavery and twists of morality and religion, they're won't be off any hooks.

The reason for that post is because I am a gnostic Christian/Buddhist/New Age, My Own Spirituality, I don't like it in boxes really. I can see some of it, am led to other passages that unravel some of it, and its just common sense really. But those who did this, hiding knowledge in grims fairy tales books of smiting satanic gods, shame on them. For real, shame on them.

But as for how ancient it is, think of the times before the Hopi were led underground by the ant people of orion, to survive the floods, before the lands in the west, pacific, of mu, broke apart and the "white" okanagan natives made it to the mainland, a very old past cycle connected to Mars and the solar system. So, when have humans not learnt the way back home? They've always known it. But they haven't always been enslaved by Rome and the Royal Families.

reply to post by Unity_99

The only problem is, there isn't just one gnostic sect that has one set of answers. Its about seeing, knowing, understanding, comprehending ancient writings and texts. There is a pure gnosis, void of all groups and organization, that is what all seekers would be developing.

I'm glad you chimed in here, Unity. Yes, that's how I understand it as well....

that it goes way back before "Jesus".
Through the course of this thread, I've learned quite more than I knew about the different "schools" of 'gnosis' and 'gnosticism'. Perhaps my efforts are pedestrian, but ....

do you think there is a link between the ancient Eastern thoughts and what Jesus taught?

reply to post by wildtimes

You see, you're still sticking on the point of a "demiurge" - and I am not.

And that's the problem -- you're confusing "gnosis", a Greek word for knowledge, with Gnosticism, a Greek religion, based on Platonic philosophy. "Gnosis" is, when divorced from Gnosticism, effectively a worthless term, because knowledge can be anything. Yes, Jesus brought "gnosis", but so did Paul, Pliny, Josephus, Nero and pretty much everyone else in existence.

But when you try to say that Jesus brought a specific form of gnosis, that taught by the Gnostics, all that other baggage comes with it, because the Gnostics were rooted in a very specific line of thought -- dualism, and Judaism, the religion that Jesus professed to, and which Christianity is based upon, is intentionally and deeply non-dualistic.

I am referring to the ancient notion of looking within.

That's fine, but that's not what Jesus taught -- we are to seek him, we are to seek a relationship with God, and that is where the truth, and our sustenance, is found.

So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:31-33 NIV)

reply to post by adjensen

Yes, Jesus brought "gnosis", but so did Paul, Pliny, Josephus, Nero and pretty much everyone else in existence.

YAY!!!

I'm very glad we've established a common ground, then.
Thank you. Muchly.

Now - do you believe that accepting 'revelation' (belief acquired via others) is superior to 'personal knowledge' gained by introspection and thought?

reply to post by wildtimes


Well in a sense alot of the gnostic is the tao, especially the transformation/ascending, alschemist. Both the Tao alchemy and Christ spoke of the precious pearl and the kingdome of heaven is within.

There was another thread on here that carbon dated a city of one of the Buddha's to within a hundred years (and it would be varied, there would leeway there) of Christ. I found it odd that they may both have lived in the same era. What is being said, or hidden.

Lou Baldin/Sleeper, I haven't read his books on Christianity and Paul, but he has written on this on his site, along the lines that, Israel was being overun and sacked and they wanted to preserve the Hebrew Spiritual Wisdom (note this isn't the fundamental, they knew it was Kabbala Mystical and Gnosis, at least those of any learning and wisdom). So he said, Paul invented Christianity as the "gnosis" to preserve the True Inner Meanings of Israel's Wisdom. In short, Christ is the Gnostic version of the Hebrew spiritual teachings, which were never meant to be fundamentalist or literal.

I don't want to step on toes here, nor do I specifically believe one way or another, ie Christ as real, or as metaphor. It doesn't matter to me, as "the way" is the way, and we have an intercessor guiding us through life. So Christ is real even if it is metaphor. However, that placement of a city of Buddha closer to Christ's day could mean that a real higher up came down to help out. Unless both Buddha and Christ are one and the same gnostic way to preserve the past and are both metaphors, and I am open to all ideas, but only willing run with the truth when the veil lifts. And in a sense it doesnt matter because if you see the Love and Good path, you strive to walk it whether the writings are philosophies or about a literal person. They're still the best spiritual message on earth. In the pure form. The Love and Goodness, giving to others way.

I am not sitting on the fence with this one, no one can claim to know. And they must be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves, ie. realize who is running the world and religions and not be so niave as to allow them to twist around common sense and your inner Love so that you accept harsh smiting murderous gods, those aren't god.

In one sense, I could see that in order for higher frequency ways to exist in this plasma screen, interactive but simulated reality, it may have to be anchored in by a real teacher showing the way, making the writings come true. So I tend to honor that belief first, but sidestep every trap they could lay out by, in my prayers, making certain that my default position is always, the Highest Love and Goodness in the reality and truth of my inner meanings, what I define for those words, (ie. Love is not evol backwards but really means: kindness, giving, caring, sharing, helping those in need, spreading happiness and equality to others, and uplifting people), according to the real meanings in my heart and I renounce all traps and codes on earth by slavers. Because they really really have laid them out for humanity and they're attempting to hold back the progression of souls and hand them over to their overlords. This is actually for real their bad intents.

reply to post by Unity_99

Well in a sense alot of the gnostic is the tao, especially the transformation/ascending, alschemist. Both the Tao alchemy and Christ spoke of the precious pearl and the kingdome of heaven is within.

Yes.

Thank you.
I studied and explored Buddhism for quite some time; I understand what you are talking about.

Excellent post!

To me, Bruce Lee was a Christ. And they murdered him shortly after his last interview, they knew what he was doing. It was one thing when he took the world by storm with his action movies. But this was no ordinary man. He did several things: one, invented a form of martial arts based on a less effective one, kung fu, only used in self defense lessons, but never taught to anyone outside of Chinese culture. He studied the Taosist and practiced moves with fencing, because the moves had to be perfect, or you would die in real life, and with swordplay, they don't waste moves. So he named his martial arts, "the way of the intercepting fist", which is perfect....

For this is how we overcome the world. This is: as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. ie. to forsee the dangers to see through the world and to second guess or intuitively be guided to their next move against us. The way of the intercepting fist was neither aggressive assault, nor subdued passive defense. It was an aggressive defense that predicted and moved into the next movement with CHI/Knowing/Guidance.

He inspired many, all those they would have used as fodder, inner city black and mexicans, and poor whites, and many who were going off to wars, going to be pawns, or just criminal unrest that furthers the control grids plans. He inspired them. And he won the right amongst his own people to teach this to non Chinese.

So with a huge reputation, and good works, he was writing books on his sayings, the spiritual, the Tao.

He was asked, when do you stop reincarnating?

Answer, when you have lived a life worth remembering.

His last interview! I think they perceived a threat. And they always kill the Christs who are attempting to wake up others. They see the lambs of christ as willing ritual sacrifices. Going to tell them right now, THEY'RE NOT AND ITS MURDER YOU PSYCHOPATHS.


Be Water, My Friend! - Bruce Lee Remix | #eTHErSEC


A Poisoned World ~ Why The illuminati killed Bruce Lee

This is a hint at what's hidden, because its all old knowledge. Meditate. Go within. overcome anger and judgments of others, help and serve them, make others happy, don't live for self. Develop yourself though and your psi mind skills. And connect to the Higher Self, become Higher Self, and Creator, become Creator.

“You are not ready. Like everyone else you want to win, but to accept defeat, to die, is to be liberated from it.”

reply to post by wildtimes

Now - do you believe that accepting 'revelation' (belief acquired via others) is superior to 'personal knowledge' gained by introspection and thought?

There is no rational answer to that question, as it depends on who is revealing what, and who is being introspective on what subject.

Generally, outside inputs are required to validate conclusions that one comes to of their own accord -- it's one of the reasons that I dismissed "just me and my Bible" thinking when I was a Protestant. I've seen all sorts of ridiculous claims made by people of that mindset, and the reason is that there is no outside check on the conclusions that they've come to.

In addition, where evidence exists, it is foolish to dismiss it without a valid reason and rely on one's own opinion. That behaviour is endemic here on ATS, and it's one of the reasons that I don't participate as much as I once did.

The true aware and responsible gnostic sees the metaphor in that Bruce Lee video, the first one I posted and the fighting scenes, as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves, Serve and Protect is the first principle, that means forseeing and aggressively defending, blocking their moves.

Also, the metaphor for this, I've posted alot. Its not all Neo and the Matrix, its more important to be here. We're here to change here, not to change the world, but to overcome our portion of it. Bigger things may be given then, or holding ground. Because one wouldn't want one dominant spirit around, it should be 7 billion doing this.

We're here to change ourselves and thus the world changes.

So, its not supposed to be an "elitists gnostic message" but a people's one. And the "way of the intercepting fist".


Balls of Steel - The Ultimate Nutshot

Serve and Protect! and Not On My Watch! should be the moto's.

And reading scriptures wisely. ie. 7 means Chakra's. The grades or lessons. For example in our family, I've got the throat as an assignment in this life and only recently figuring that out.

I need to add. They are aware of course, of what it means, at least certain levels of ptb. And we're often kept traumatized, so much flung at us that we don't get to do the right thing, those thing that would help, because we're always on healing mode, attempting to recover from illness, setbacks, and nonstop hell tactics they throw at us daily.

In practice. A group of 5-10 inner awakened, kind nonjudgmental people in the community, as a citizens counsel for solving problems and awareness, and striving to solve the blocks each and every family is facing, in teamwork, would grow to 100, then 1000, and so forth and so on. And each town would become abundant and joyful. Of course you can't leave anyone out, no one would be homeless, for example, no child unaccounted for, yet not fascist outreach to homes, community awareness and solutions that treat all the people as if they were one huge family facing many problems. People started doing that, they wouldn't be voting for the same villians in a few years, they'd start to realize they can solve problems.

In practice, holding your own means creating a happy village.

reply to post by adjensen

In addition, where evidence exists, it is foolish to dismiss it without a valid reason and rely on one's own opinion. That behaviour is endemic here on ATS, and it's one of the reasons that I don't participate as much as I once did.

I respect that....

my problem is that I'm finding all sorts of "conflicting evidence" in my curiosity/seeking.

I agree with you that "just me and my Bible" is dangerous. I, however, think of introspection as having nothing to do with "believing the Bible" - but rather that thinking about these eternal mysteries WITHOUT THE BIBLE is more genuine, authentic, and valid.

In all my time here (nearly 3 years!), and all my time before I arrived here, I have yet to see "evidence" that the Bible is worth 'reverence', or anywhere near 'the Truth.' I just simply don't trust it. Don't believe I ever can, as a matter of fact.

To me, it's simply a piece of hacked-together literature - a collection of thoughts that were presented to the populace -- what's the word??? An ANTHOLOGY of disconnected opinions (and a lame one, at that).

One quick post on that first Bruce Lee video, (and I made a thread on this before), is the whole positive gnosis really, "You've Got To Put The Whole Into It, SNAP, SNAP, Become One With THE...You've Got To Train Every Part Of Your Body" And, "We're All One Family".

Broken down, The Whole is Higher Self and Creator. Become ONE with the Whole and Bring more of yourself into each moment, spreading kindness and happiness and showing the way to others, inspiring them in their hard moments to not lose ground, be an act of kindness, become superman in the system by training every part of your body. His emphasis here is the vessel, the martial arts, but he is implying the mind, pineal and brain work. Psi work as well, growing our abilities and awareness. Become One With THE (Creator and Higher Self).

Be Water My Friend.

That is the gnosis. Also the way and the meaning of Christ.

reply to post by wildtimes

In all my time here (nearly 3 years!), and all my time before I arrived here, I have yet to see "evidence" that the Bible is worth 'reverence', or anywhere near 'the Truth.' I just simply don't trust it. Don't believe I ever can, as a matter of fact.

The problem with that is that, as regards Jesus' life and teachings, it's the only source of information that came be reasonably counted on (setting aside the Catholic church's belief in later revelation,) and so any discussion about him that rejected the Bible would be a pretty short one.

If one dismisses the canonical texts, it would be ludicrous to accept the non-canonical ones as better sources of information, because the reason that they are non-canonical is (generally) that they are non-reliable. It has been my experience that those who take that perspective, such as Hal Taussig, do so because they want to fit Jesus into a mold that they prefer. The Jesus Seminar feels free to re-write the New Testament because they start with the premise that there were no supernatural events in the life of Christ, so all those miracles and resurrection stories can just be excised.

So it seems like we have three approaches -- we can dismiss the Bible, and say that there are no reasonable facts about who Jesus was, or if he even existed; we can accept the Bible as the truest record of his life and teaching, and debate the actual meaning of those things; or we can think up our "dream Jesus" and then pick and choose sources or intuitions that support that.

As an academic, there is only one approach in there that I see as being reasonable.

reply to post by adjensen

the religion that Jesus professed to, and which Christianity is based upon, is intentionally and deeply non-dualistic.

It's true that Jesus did talk of "unity" but Christianity itself teaches dualism. Heaven or Hell, life or death, my way or the highway.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

The problem with that is that, as regards Jesus' life and teachings, it's the only source of information that came be reasonably counted on (setting aside the Catholic church's belief in later revelation,) and so any discussion about him that rejected the Bible would be a pretty short one.

Aye, there's the rub! We have some sayings that Jesus may have, or may not have said. We have a narrative that "shoehorns" contemporary pop-cultural mythology of the time, and then a lot of personal interpretation and revelation, ie: "Gnosis".

A really good example of the Neo-platonic influence of Gnosis in Pauls musings is in Hebrews 9:

But when Christ appeared as a high priest gof the good things that have come,5 then through hthe greater and more perfect tent (inot made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he jentered konce for all into the holy places, not by means of lthe blood of goats and calves but mby means of his own blood,

Thus it was necessary for gthe copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places hmade with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God ion our behalf.

And here:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Gnosticism isn't a "me and my bible" system, it relies on a teacher/student like relationship, which is what Jesus exlemplified.

He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

And here:

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus represents a spiritual teacher, not of this world, but as and intermediate to another, more perfect world. Jesus didn't exist in flesh and blood for St Paul or any of the early church father, and certainly not for any of today's Christians. Jesus guides individuals into a personal spiritual Gnosis, through prayer, meditation and service.

For the true seeker, Christianity is definitely a religion of personal Gnosis. For the mundane, it's a religion of ritual, dogma and rhetoric.

reply to post by windword

It's true that Jesus did talk of "unity" but Christianity itself teaches dualism. Heaven or Hell, life or death, my way or the highway.

That isn't dualism.

There is no counter to God in Christianity.

reply to post by adjensen


There is separation. There are places where God is not, and where cannot go.

reply to post by windword


That isn't dualism.

There are no places God cannot be, though most Christians believe that there are places that he chooses not to be.

reply to post by adjensen


There is Christ and the Anti-Christ.

There is Heaven and there is Hell.

There is God and there is Satan.

These are precepts of Dulaism and of Christianity.

Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

There are two realities.

Gnosticism relies on the concept that good is greater than "bad", but that we each, individually must realize that for ourselves. So does Christianity. It can be taught but not realized without personal experience and private revelation.

There are no places God cannot be

I agree!

wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen

adjensenYes, Jesus brought "gnosis", but so did Paul, Pliny, Josephus, Nero and pretty much everyone else in existence.

wildtimesYAY!!!I'm very glad we've established a common ground, then.
Thank you. Muchly.Now - do you believe that accepting 'revelation' (belief acquired via others) is superior to 'personal knowledge' gained by introspection and thought?

Jesus did not bring gnosis as cannot be taught, he would have served as teacher to guide only. He was not so esoteric in his teachings that would include this type of Adept 'ness' (one that has the connection to his creator) to the initiate, as its up to you to self individualize "it is given to YOU to know the mysteries" -Jesus, Matthew 13.11. That wasnt his purpose although he demonstrated the power of the Gnostic mystery schools when he changed water to wine (majick) and was fully enlightenned of the Egyptian schools of the 'winged disk', which was stated before by Unity_99 have different disciplines, Qabalistic, Hermetic/Thoth, Zorastrism, and of course Gnostism.

One of the reasons this disapline 'seems' hidden is only because it involves dedication or wanting to know/reconnect with ''creator". Even an Adept on earth is not perfect and thats the point; the quest to become so.

reply to post by windword

There is Christ and the Anti-Christ.

According to Scripture, there is one Christ and many anti-Christs.

There is Heaven and there is Hell.

Hell is not the opposite of heaven. For Christians, evil is not the opposite of good, it is the absence of good -- that's fundamental theology, so either accept it or just admit that you don't care what we believe. And, in the same way that evil is the absence of good, Hell is the absence of Heaven, the absence of God.

There is God and there is Satan.

Satan is not the opposite of God, I would expect everyone but a Sunday School student to know that.

Fundamental to Christianity and Judaism (and probably Islam, as well, I don't know,) is that there is no counterpart to God. They didn't come up with that to counter dualism, they rejected dualism, because of that philosophy's claim that there would have to be a counterpart to God.

I agree!

Well, thank heavens for that