It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Bold Prediction: Intelligent Alien Life Could Be Found by 2040

page: 2
14
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 01:40 PM
link   
My question is, how do you predict something like time? Time is unimaginably complicated, and can be twisted and morphed in more ways than we can calculate. Something as small as a sneeze could alter your future in amazing ways, but you will never know because you cannot see both timestreams. So saying alien life should be found be 2040 is like saying the next time you trip is going to be 7 minutes and 30 seconds from now. Not only is that unpredictable, but it is also an unreasonably short amount of time that you are giving yourself to complete the task (Which is out of your control anyways).




posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 01:44 PM
link   

DazDaKing
reply to post by JadeStar
 


You slightly surprise me here Jade, but good post.

Why do you surprise me? Because here you present material and personal opinion not only suggesting that an intelligent alien life form exists out there but also that it is very likely they came before us (which I think is a completely rational assumption).

Yet, I've seen you in other threads regarding topics such as 'Reptilians' and you denounced those ideas with the strongest passion I've seen.


I don't know why you'd be surprised.

I am a big proponent of searching for alien life and intelligence within our solar system and around other stars and places in the galaxy and universe beyond.

There are perfectly good, scientifically valid reasons to suspect that those searches are worthwhile and the discovery would be the greatest discovery in the history of greatest discoveries.

What I am very much against is trying to short circuit that process by making assumptions based on stories with little to no evidence to back them up.


Thats why I have a problem with the whole "Reptilian Aliens on Earth" - David Icke mythos.

The credible search for REAL aliens has a hard enough time procuring funding without people confusing it with the bizarre claims among some of the people in the UFO crowd which is why if you're in this field you run as FAR away from UFOs as possible.

Too much noise in the data, and too many loons in the field which has pretty much abandoned a scientific, rational approach to the phenomena as suggested by Peter Sturrock.

I am more than willing to entertain ideas of Reptilians the moment one is scientifically examinable. Until then, its a myth.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 01:50 PM
link   

thatblondguy321
My question is, how do you predict something like time? Time is unimaginably complicated, and can be twisted and morphed in more ways than we can calculate. Something as small as a sneeze could alter your future in amazing ways, but you will never know because you cannot see both timestreams. So saying alien life should be found be 2040 is like saying the next time you trip is going to be 7 minutes and 30 seconds from now. Not only is that unpredictable, but it is also an unreasonably short amount of time that you are giving yourself to complete the task (Which is out of your control anyways).


Actually you're overcomplicating things here..

One can make such a prediction based on the expanding technological capabilities of instruments being constructed right now or planned to be constructed within that time.

For instance in 1955 Otto Struve predicted that the first planet around another star like our Sun would probably be found by the 21st Century.

That prediction was based on our exploration of space, the rise of electronics, the first computers being used in astronomy and how they might evolve etc....


He wasn't far off. The first such planet was found orbiting 51 Pegasi, a star like our Sun, in 1995.

40 years later and 5 years before the 21st century.

That's what's being done again here in the OP.


edit on 10-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 01:55 PM
link   

taoistguy

DazDaKing
reply to post by JadeStar
 



Firstly, the universe as we know it and perceive it ceases to exist without life. That is to say; without any living form 'decoding' the informational source of the universe, there becomes no universe as we know it. Light ceases to exist without an observer of light and matter is nothing but the unique interaction between light and the 'source'. That beautiful flower doesn't exist unless there is life to perceive its beauty.


the universe existed before there was any life, as did stars and their light.



I said the universe as we know it. There is no objective universe as we see it, just the objective 'source'. The decoded source is NOT always objective - we know this for a fact. Of course the fundamental informational properties of the universe existed before any life - I am not doubting that by any means.

The universe existed in informational form prior to life. A star continued the chain of configuration (3 is the magic number - our universe must have split into at least 3 elements from its inception to grow - guided by the fundamental laws) - but it was not a star as you know it. Nothing 'decoded' it - nothing experienced its light and nothing experienced its warmth - or ultimately its field(s) of influence. It is just made of atoms right? What are atoms from an objective sense?

It is like the wave-particle duality and the double slit experiment. There is a point in the path where the, lets say electron for example, is not interacting in essence with anything. Between the slits, the detector screen and with nothing attempting to 'gather information' from it. At this point, the electron begins to exist everywhere, and falls back into its true realm of mathematical possibility. It ceases to exist yet it exists. This is fact. It becomes a wave of potential rather than a specific particle in a place and time.

Although our early stars were interacting with something...all atoms interacting with atoms. But atoms alone do not provide the beauty that is our universe. It cannot be. It is not the atom that is entirely important, it is the field of information it gives out. This is how we decode our senses.

Do you see what I mean? The universe as we experience it is completely unique to us and all life. Without life decoding all these different fields of information in such a way it is then just information continuing its chain of command. We know this. At least I believe this isnwhat the science is suggesting.

The atom is 99.999999..% empty. There is no solidity, but a complete product of your senses.
The sun is not really a flaming hot gas ball. It is information constructed in such a way that to many forms of life it appears like that. But We assume it to be in such a form regardless of any conditions. The stars take many different forms and properties depending on what's interacting with it.

The objective source will always exist regardless of us or not. And it will continue its path based on the fundamental laws.

Even now, slowly studies are beginning to hint at our universe being a 3-dimensional projection of a 2-dimensional information plane. It is a strange concept I agree, and completely counter-intuitive.

The paradox of human existence and the universe itself. The unseen giving birth to the seen.

Or maybe I'm just mad and spouting absolute nonsense lol. You decide.

D.
edit on 10-2-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:00 PM
link   
I have a sneaking suspicion that if there are other critters out there kind of like us, they are extremely few and far between. Think several galaxies over, at least. Or even father. Few people have a grasp at just how big the universe is. Anyway, none of us living today will live long enough to see it.

The year number 2318 sticks in my head for some reason as they year we find something. Possibly having to do with the threshold at which our advanced artificial intelligence systems will finally be able to detect and decode an insanely subtle and strangely alien signal from all the brutal noise out there.

I could be wrong. It could take a lot longer.


edit on 10-2-2014 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:02 PM
link   

DazDaKing


I said the universe as WE KNOW IT. There is no objective universe as we see it


Actually there is. And there is far more evidence for that than there is for your "Reptilians".
edit on 10-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:07 PM
link   

Blue Shift
I have a sneaking suspicion that if there are other critters out there kind of like us, they are extremely few and far between. Think several galaxies over, at least. Or even father. Few people have a grasp at just how big the universe is. Anyway, none of us living today will live long enough to see it.

The year number 2318 sticks in my head for some reason as they year we find something. Possibly having to do with the threshold at which our advanced artificial intelligence systems will finally be able to detect and decode an insanely subtle and strangely alien signal from all the brutal noise out there.

I could be wrong. It could take a lot longer.


edit on 10-2-2014 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)


You don't think we'll find anyone in our galaxy sooner?

So we're 1 in 40 billion basically?

The distances as you said are huge but so are the numbers of places likely to have produced life and the amount of a head start to evolve that life will have had on us.

Even if the Milky Way is sparsely populated I don't see it taking another 300 years to find evidence of others. We could do a mission to our Sun's gravitational lens in 100 years, 20 years with a fusion pulse rocket.

Once there if anyone has the lights on or a transmitter on. anywhere in the galaxy, they will be detectable.
edit on 10-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:35 PM
link   
Scientist have to keep making these predictions to get funding for almost unimaginably expensive projects that don't really achieve anything.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:36 PM
link   

DazDaKing
...Good post! Although I am slightly surprised.

Why am I surprised? Because here you present material and personal opinion not only suggesting that an intelligent alien life form exists out there but also that it is very likely they came before us (which I think is a completely rational assumption). I guess I thought before that you were not a fan of assuming intelligent life out there - my bad....


It would be rare to find anyone on ATS who does not believe that life almost certainly exists elsewhere in the universe. The issue among ATSers usually isn't "do they exist?", but rather "are they visiting the Earth in spaceships?" -- which is a totally different question.

Practically all scientists also feel that there is intelligent life elsewhere. Even among most lay-people who have a moderate education (educated enough to understand the size of the universe), the idea that intelligent aliens are out there somewhere in the universe/galaxy is a popular one. But again, even though most people and virtually all scientists believe life exists elsewhere, that does not mean that they also believe in alien visitation of earth.

Jadestar seems to be a person who understands science, so it does not surprise me in the least that she/he (?) believes in intelligent life elsewhere, just like most scientists and other who understand the scale of the cosmos.


edit on 2/10/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:53 PM
link   

JadeStar

DazDaKing
reply to post by JadeStar
 


You slightly surprise me here Jade, but good post.

Why do you surprise me? Because here you present material and personal opinion not only suggesting that an intelligent alien life form exists out there but also that it is very likely they came before us (which I think is a completely rational assumption).

Yet, I've seen you in other threads regarding topics such as 'Reptilians' and you denounced those ideas with the strongest passion I've seen.


I don't know why you'd be surprised.

I am a big proponent of searching for alien life and intelligence within our solar system and around other stars and places in the galaxy and universe beyond.

There are perfectly good, scientifically valid reasons to suspect that those searches are worthwhile and the discovery would be the greatest discovery in the history of greatest discoveries.

What I am very much against is trying to short circuit that process by making assumptions based on stories with little to no evidence to back them up.


Thats why I have a problem with the whole "Reptilian Aliens on Earth" - David Icke mythos.

The credible search for REAL aliens has a hard enough time procuring funding without people confusing it with the bizarre claims among some of the people in the UFO crowd which is why if you're in this field you run as FAR away from UFOs as possible.

Too much noise in the data, and too many loons in the field which has pretty much abandoned a scientific, rational approach to the phenomena as suggested by Peter Sturrock.

I am more than willing to entertain ideas of Reptilians the moment one is scientifically examinable. Until then, its a myth.


I completely understand.

I shared your exact view for 90% of my life. I have a masters in Engineering so although I'm nowhere near as orientated to space in my profession as you are (although I did do a small aerospace-related project once) I have still been solidly rooted in 'logical' and 'rational' thinking for most my life. I literally was saying the same words as you!

But it changes when you have strange experiences yourself and some of your closest friends (15+ years and going) have basically had nothing sort of abduction/contact experiences you begin to flipping question this whole thing. We all thought this crap was BS as well. Now the staggering amount of UFO abduction experiences and the overlaps and huge variety of demographics makes you think 'hold on...there might just be something to this'.

In all honesty I ponder it sometimes. Like you, I can't claim anything without truly smoking gun evidence. But I wonder, is that even possible? More and more people are claiming they are 'inter dimensional'/spiritual/demons because people basically can't comprehend how these things are moving and how people are getting abducted.

If we actually just assume for a second that these things are real and are advanced beyond our comprehension - then I ensure you they will NOT provide us with smoking gun evidence. Abductions experiences and orbs phasing in and out of apparent space is as good as it will get.
I think that's a fairly rational assumption to make if the first two assumptions are proceeded with.

And I don't even specifically mean reptilians or greys or whatever. For all we know they could have technology that changes what the subject perceives from their source. Or take any form in our eyes. It's not farfetched in terms of scientific possibility considering we'll have that technology mastered eventually.

But back on topic, I wonder what type of life form we first discover as intelligent will be. I'm not even sure I know what our definition of intelligence is here regarding alien life.

What if we found a Starship Troopers style insect-like race that wasn't necessarily intelligent in the sense that it can freely learn about the environment/pursue its own pleasures/be creative and so forth but rather an extremely efficient and resourceful hive mind that had some elements of intelligence... It's funny because in a way that sounds scarier than a more human-like intelligence but I think the opposite is more true.

If we find (or if it finds us) an intelligent race just like us right now - that happens to be significantly more advanced than we are then in all probability we would not be in a good position. The human race has continuously shown the 'demonic' (metaphor) side of itself when presented with a significantly 'weaker' opponent than itself.

There's that whole point about humans having to have learnt peace and cooperation to get to such an advanced stage without blowing themselves up but in fact you could have a totalitarian ruler race and a slave race set up that would still allow technological progression. The concept of empires will always exist.

Though in all probability if we find them first it would suggest we're more advanced. But we cannot disregard the fact that maybe they just haven't searched (naive in their sole existence like we were) or their technology hasn't unfolded on quite the same route as ours - or even their timeline. Perhaps they thought to colonise a local planet before thinking to observe further out?

Or perhaps we'll find something completely unimaginable, but still intelligent. Who knows? Or on some Earth-like worlds we'll find animals strikingly similar to some of ours.

What if we stumble across really primitive man that's not quite at Homo sapien sapien level - either through lack of correct brain configuration/DNA/social triggers or even a lack of language. What would we do? How would our interaction with them forever change their timeline, nature and beliefs?

Still... I'm assuming we'll be able to actually reach these places.

Ironically, if we did find a planet out there pumping out a ridiculous amount of artificial light or an atmospheric composition suggesting artificial production and so forth, more people would still probably be more frightened than overcome with joy and a sense of scientific proudness lol.

Some people will see that as an instantaneous threat to everything about their lives. Theywould not see it as an introduction to our brothers and sisters of the universe. That divide in humans will never go.

Two cavemen see each other for the first time. One thinks enemy, one thinks friend. The first one kills the second.
Who had love? Who had fear? Who survived and passed on their genes?



edit on 10-2-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:54 PM
link   
reply to post by JadeStar
 

That'd would be wonderful...but I am reminded of a quote by Frank Zappa.

"I don't think there's intelligent life on other planets. Why should other planets be any different from this one?"



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Soylent Green Is People
Jadestar seems to be a person who understands science, so it does not surprise me in the least that she/he (?) believes in intelligent life elsewhere, just like most scientists and other who understand the scale of the cosmos.


edit on 2/10/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



She and yes, everything you posted is true of just about most scientists and educated laypeople.


For what its worth, science fiction writers also have disdain for most of the UFO stories for the same reason, lack of hard evidence to support them. This goes all the way back to Ray Palmer and his "Hollow Earth" stories he wrote first as sci-fi then tried to sell them to a gullible public as being real.

So I have little time for Reptilians, Hollow Earth proponents and other pseudoscience charlatans.

I do however think that a tiny, tiny fraction of UFO reports (less than 1 percent) are mildly interesting and that the UFO field is its own worst enemy since they've scared off just about anyone who might take them seriously.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:02 PM
link   

mysterioustranger
reply to post by JadeStar
 

That'd would be wonderful...but I am reminded of a quote by Frank Zappa.

"I don't think there's intelligent life on other planets. Why should other planets be any different from this one?"



Time.




posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:05 PM
link   

JadeStar

It has nothing to do with "being ready". By the way, most people my age were born ready. It's like: "Where are all the aliens already?"



THIS is the most awesome quote I've seen in response to the modern UFO conspiracy/mythology stance.



Yes indeed.
Where are they already?




posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:10 PM
link   

JadeStar
You don't think we'll find anyone in our galaxy sooner?
So we're 1 in 40 billion basically?

Considering the size of the universe and the chance of an intelligent species "coming to be" and evolving into something like us, 1 in 40 billion is actually pretty good odds. I think I'm being generous in thinking there is something going on in a galaxy that might be close enough for us to listen to.

Once there if anyone has the lights on or a transmitter on. anywhere in the galaxy, they will be detectable.

Maybe. At the moment, though, we humans are getting better at looking for certain things in a certain way (radio/light/EM). That's why I think we need something smarter than us (advanced AI) that will be able to greatly expand both our perceptions and conceptions of what we're looking for.

Could be that there's something to this ESP/psi stuff. Maybe they're broadcasting their dreams that way, and that's how they communicate. No way we're going to be able to find something like that any time soon, no matter how close they are, such as on the other side of the galaxy.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:17 PM
link   

PhoenixOD
Scientist have to keep making these predictions to get funding for almost unimaginably expensive projects that don't really achieve anything.

I don't know. SETI is pretty cheap compared to some other military-type projects that get funded and never get deployed. There's plenty of money sitting around in the pockets of the ultra rich. Doesn't hurt to look, keep a few dozen overeducated brainiacs employed. People piss away many multiples of that amount of money on football. Finding aliens would be more interesting than football... at least until football season starts again.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:29 PM
link   

Soylent Green Is People

DazDaKing
...Good post! Although I am slightly surprised.

Why am I surprised? Because here you present material and personal opinion not only suggesting that an intelligent alien life form exists out there but also that it is very likely they came before us (which I think is a completely rational assumption). I guess I thought before that you were not a fan of assuming intelligent life out there - my bad....


It would be rare to find anyone on ATS who does not believe that life almost certainly exists elsewhere in the universe. The issue among ATSers usually isn't "do they exist?", but rather "are they visiting the Earth in spaceships?" -- which is a totally different question.

Practically all scientists also feel that there is intelligent life elsewhere. Even among most lay-people who have a moderate education (educated enough to understand the size of the universe), the idea that intelligent aliens are out there somewhere in the universe/galaxy is a popular one. But again, even though most people and virtually all scientists believe life exists elsewhere, that does not mean that they also believe in alien visitation of earth.

Jadestar seems to be a person who understands science, so it does not surprise me in the least that she/he (?) believes in intelligent life elsewhere, just like most scientists and other who understand the scale of the cosmos.


edit on 2/10/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)


On the contrary my friend - during my university years with some VERY intelligent and scientific folk, and even now in my work profession which contains likewise people - I have met MANY who argue intelligent life is unlikely and only simple bacterial or microbe life is possible.

They argue the factors needed to provide such a thing are too unique and stretch beyond the scope of habitable planets and right conditions. I see their point sometimes - more so in regards to the human than other animals - but I personally still believe human like intelligence is out there.

But by no means I meant insult to Jade, and I hope she didn't think that. You have to understand that a lot of intelligent and scientific people I meet hold the opposing viewpoint.

I'm not saying Jade should believe in aliens visiting us lol - please.

I do feel however that if you believe an intelligent race could've/probably evolved before us then you cannot truly place limits on their capabilities and technology as well as our scientific knowledge to comprehend whats possible, and this usually causes a bit of intrigue in the whole 'Earth being visited' question. The key points here are 'intelligent and before us'. That's when simple assumptions can have huge consequences - it just requires using our foresight to see what we will be technological capable of.

Also, please note, this 'popularity' of intelligent aliens in space is relatively new. When I was a child it was a taboo subject, often mocked by credible science related facets or disregarded. At best it was limited to simple, bacteria-like life.

Next you'll be telling me everyone scientific and intelligent knows there are an infinite (or very large) amount of parallel universes.
Yet I know very scientific minds that laugh it off - likewise with INTELLIGENT alien life. Some genuinely believer the conditions are too unique for an intelligence like ours (once again depends to what level we define intelligence here), and not because of 'God' or whatever. There's a decent, intellectual debate to be had there.

I simply thought she was of the more skeptical type when it came to intelligent life and was more focused on simple life. Like I've said, I know many scientific and intelligent people working in respectable scientific professions who are still skeptical. I sort of thought that was the norm to an extent. It's not that they don't think we'll find animal like creatures at best but they believe a technologically capable race takes more factors than nice habitat and brain size. Thing is, everyone has a different definition of intelligence when regarding this.

I'm not quite sure what Jade or you define as intelligent life. Would a mouse suffice? When I say I thought Jade was skeptical, I was referring to a humanoid/human-like intelligence.

Like I said in my original post - my bad, I made a mistake. Was it really worth your chivalrous reply?

Out of curiosity, did you even read the remainder of my post you partly quoted?

From now on I'll just lie to people. Honesty obviously isn't always respected.

I know when I typed that first paragraph of mine that the rest of what I said would be completely ignored - but for some dumb reason I always give the benefit of the doubt.

edit on 10-2-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:34 PM
link   
reply to post by JadeStar
 


Depends on what technological level we are looking for I think? Why would it be so long before we find other civilizations? If others did find us first?

Also within this time frame we already could have discovered new technologies that's speeding up the techniques we currently using... So if we don't have been found first I think it will take us about five years from now



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:38 PM
link   
Once the governments verify life on another planet, they will spread fear that these aliens will come and destroy us and take our gold. A simple five percent tax on everyone will get them to stop scaring us. Tis the global warming scam of the future, a tax cures everything.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 03:44 PM
link   
reply to post by JayinAR
 


Well the conspiracy theory is the NSA was created from Roswell. I'm not sure if it's direct from the NSA or a legal blurb from NASA but NASA has the right not to disclose certain discoveries, I forget the name of the actual clause from NASA.

So the age old question, why no disclosure? Well I think it's how society would react. Discovering microbes on Mars then some type of ocean life on Europa, maybe something on Enceladus or Titan, would be less terrifying or unbelievable life changing event than city lights on a planet.

City lights on a planet would be disclosed before an alien communication signal.

This order of disclosure:

1. Microbes
2. Ocean life
3. Non-ocean life
4. Advanced life detected on exoplanet
5. Alien Communication
6. Alien interaction




Some people think the entertainment industry is slowly preparing us...maybe maybe not....but I think in terms of actual discovery of life in the universe, it will gradually be released so we appear dominant for the perspective of everyday citizens. Part of the discussion is we are like ants and ET holds the magnifying glass. I believe TBTB want that image reversed, so we look like a powerful member of the Universe. We make the discoveries not aliens discovering us. It's written like that in human history in terms of "discovering" new land.

I believe our goal as a race is go find another planet to live on, and so we want to have support from the public backing us a type 1 civilization.
edit on 10-2-2014 by game over man because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-2-2014 by game over man because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join