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Should the NFL be a dont ask dont tell league What are your thoughts

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posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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Kali74
All that matters is that he can play football to a degree that he is an asset to a team.



Well there you go. They need the skill level of the player to make any real point at all for the gay cause. They need theater here. They have probably had any number of average players they could have highlighted over the years but that wouldn't have sold the issue. And never mind that gays have been out for a very long time in any number of fields.

This certainly has a great deal to do with challenging traditional sexuality rather than simply a spectacular coming out in a tuff guy vocation although that is part of it. It really doesn't confront the core of the debate at all. And neither can that debate ultimately hide behind a civil rights issue.
edit on 10-2-2014 by Logarock because: n




posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by Aleister
 


I see what you're saying, I just don't know that the extras outweigh the drawbacks here. If he's a 1st round or 2nd round draft pick and not picked up by a team who has earned the rights to those rounds, his career will suffer. This is a pretty big deal, a huge moment of choice for the NFL and already one spokesperson for the NFL has stated to the press that he doesn't think the NFL is ready for gay players.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 





This certainly has a great deal to do with challenging traditional sexuality


What is traditional sexuality? Is being gay new? The only thing it challenges is the tradition of hiding it. Straight players don't have to hide who they date, who they marry, when they have children.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:48 AM
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Aleister
reply to post by ed1320
 


. . . .

Sam, by the way, for those who don't know like I didn't know, is the American college football defensive player of the year, and is expected to go high in the draft.
edit on 10-2-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)


He's actually not the college football player of the year. He was the Southeastern Conference player of the year. While he excelled in the S.E.C., there is legit concern about his ability to be more than a situational player in the NFL. He's lacking a bit of the size (only measure 6'1" for scouts) and is not particularly fast and did not stand out at the Senior Bowl at all. He's too small to play defensive end in the NFL most likely, so he'll require a position change, and probably be most-suited to a specific defense (3-4) that not all teams use.

A lot will depend on whether he can show a bit more speed at the NFL scouting combine later in February, but most draft boards have him at a 3rd/4th round pick.

Not looking to turn this into a sports thread -- just want people not to assume he slid way down draft boards when he doesn't go in the first round later.

As for the premise of the thread, I don't think there's any reason to be a don't ask/don't tell - he excelled as a team leader on a 12-2 team this year. the NFL is a pay-for-play league. So long as you produce on the field, off-the-field behavior that doesn't hamper your play at all is not going to cause much ruckus. Teammates want accountability and reliability.

Anyway, brave move by Sam.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by ed1320
 


Personally, I think everyone is FAR FAR too hung up on what sexual preference or identity one person has over another.

I don't really care if an NFL player is gay or not. I didn't before and I still don't now. Good for him and I'm happy he's happy..but I still, really really...don't care.

We keep defining ourselves by our differences and then wonder why it's not a simple matter to achieve equality as if no differences exist. Well...if we weren't setting ourselves apart by them, in every way possible? Perhaps...equality in treatment would be a wee more realistic and in far more areas than just sexual politics.

Just my thoughts..



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by jpkmets
 


Yeah I was just reading that before his announcement he was projected at 3/4 round. So we'll see. He is small for defense but there's been smaller greats. I guess we'll see.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 08:09 AM
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Aleister
reply to post by Snarl
 


In a few years it won't make a difference. But now some gay people have to proclaim it to make those "won't make a difference" times possible. Back to Jackie Robinson (I just saw the movie "42"), he couldn't not be up front, the color of his skin made him the target, and he purposely put that skin onto the ball field and led the way by being nonviolent for a year. Gay people have to "come out" to do the same thing, and Sam is doing just that. There has to be a first, tenth, and twentieth before there can be a generally-accepted "who cares?" moment, when it won't have to be declared anymore.


Well said.

And it is also to show that you can't have a gaydar, and pick out who is gay and assume it is the guy picking out Egyptian cotton sheets to match the curtains.

It is not always obvious. Most people would of never picked this guy out.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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jpkmets

. . . .

He's lacking a bit of the size (only measure 6'1" for scouts)


That will never cease to amaze me about the NFL and NBA. That people that are tall by normal standards, are on the smaller side.

People who have never met NFL players, don't know how big these guys really are.

We used to have them as substitute teachers in my school district (retired ones of course) and the Ravens used to stay at my hotel where I worked at, they are frighteningly huge. People would stop and stare whenever they walked by.
edit on 10-2-2014 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 08:31 AM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by ed1320
 




We keep defining ourselves by our differences and then wonder why it's not a simple matter to achieve equality as if no differences exist. Well...if we weren't setting ourselves apart by them, in every way possible? Perhaps...equality in treatment would be a wee more realistic and in far more areas than just sexual politics.

Just my thoughts..



You sound a bit naïve here friend. Its about setting. No one will question the presents of gays in the performing arts, great actors ect. Just the idea of a gay football player being a big deal is all about vestiges. This has little to do with challenging the existence of said persons in a certain fields but ideas about the field itself.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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There have been gay men in the NFL in the past, there are currently many gay players today and there will continue to be gay NFL player. I think it is up to the individual if they want to inform everyone else about their sexuality. A gay quarterback will have a tougher time than a gay defender in my opinion. I'm actually convinced that Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers is gay but does not want to 'come out' because it could hurt his career, which is perfectly understandable.

I do think a few teams will pass up on Michael Sams because of this, he will be drafted, every SEC defensive player of the year gets drafted.

I do find it funny that the NFL is considered such a manly hetero sport even though the players do a lot of not so hetero things like butt slapping and the whole QB under center thing where the QBs hands are touching the center's jock cup....



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by ed1320
 


You look like you don't know the reasoning behind the original "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy from the US military. They instituted it back in the '90's so that gays could be in the military despite the military's strict no gay policy; this was because the military actually used to ask what your sexual orientation was prior to enlistment (hence the "don't ask" aspect of the policy). However, if a gay person outed themselves, they'd still be kicked out (hence the "don't tell" aspect of the policy). This policy is WILDLY offensive since gay people shouldn't have to keep their lifestyle choices private so that they can continue to draw a paycheck. "Don't ask, Don't tell" is basically a way for the military to continue to legally discriminate against a group of people while placating the political correct crowd.

With all this said, there is no need for a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy in the NFL. Football players aren't kicked out of the NFL for being gay and the NFL doesn't ask their sexuality anyways (not to mention could care less what it is anyways). Also, keep in mind that "Don't ask, Don't tell" is really offensive. I cannot stress this point enough. Sure outing yourself in the NFL may and will cause much hardship in the league and amongst your teammates, but that is a decision that you have to make. The NFL isn't forcing the issue and could care less what your sexual orientation is. In fact, if the NFL instituted a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy, it would be a step BACK from tolerance, not a step towards it. Pretending an issue doesn't exist, doesn't make it so.
edit on 10-2-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 



You sound a bit naïve here friend. Its about setting. No one will question the presents of gays in the performing arts, great actors ect. Just the idea of a gay football player being a big deal is all about vestiges. This has little to do with challenging the existence of said persons in a certain fields but ideas about the field itself.


That's more than a bit insulting, but I'll stay off the personal and return to the topic.


I understand entirely what this is actually about, however coy I play with sarcasm at times. In my personal opinion, it's about somehow seeing 'gay' as something so important and ground breaking, it must be announced in a formal way...as if that aspect of the whole which makes up a person should or does override the talent or ability that got them to whatever position in life they currently hold.

In this case, again, what being gay has to do with Football...good OR bad..is totally beyond me. Aside from activist points and a P.R. bump, I see no gain and really...typical political distraction in it being made an issue at all.

If the Gay Community HONESTLY wants people to stop treating them different....stop highlighting it like it's a special trait. Honestly, I think it's probably far more focused in WHICH special treatment they get...than simply NOT getting special treatment. If it's positive special treatment? That's become an outright demand and implied here. If it's negative special treatment, it's a felony crime.

How about the 'special status', 'special highlighting' and 'special treatment' from ALL directions cease?

We're people ..not gay or straight. That's a complex idea for society to wrap it's head around at the moment though, obviously by this and similar stories in media and across our nation today. Always focusing on how we're divided...and rarely, if ever, how we're similar and alike. Sad...on that. Sad and self defeating to the stated goals.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Aleister
 


As someone who follows US sports VERY closely, well, if you asked my gf she would say I was obsessed...hahaha

This is GROUND BREAKING... There has never been an active gay member of the NFL. There has been guys who came out after retirement, but never a kid who was projected to be drafted in the 2-3rd round of the NFL draft and that has his whole career ahead of him...

Just an FYI- to think his teammates will rally around him is a total mistake. Any decent human being would do that for a person who came out, but the NFL is EXTREMELY homophobic... I can find numerous, recent, stories about how coaches/players feel about have gays in their locker room...

This kid was the SEC defensive player of the year. For those who don't follow NCAA Football, the SEC is arguably the top conference, where many joke that it's the NFL minor league system because so many NFL players come from that conference... Well, this kid was rated the top defensive player from that conference, which is a reason why he SHOULD be drafted in the top 2-3 rounds of this years draft. If he falls passed the 3rd round it will show just how homophobic the NFL is. I honestly hope that some General Manager steps up and drafts this courageous, deserving kid... This takes HUGE balls to do and he just did it before his big payday, which many could call stupid..



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


When the world stops gasping, cringing, and invoking a God over two men or two women kissing or holding hands in public... it will stop being 'special'. This kid is very likely to be drafted into the NFL or was (who knows now). In order for his sexuality not to have become an issue? He'd have to hide it. Do you think all famous people should hide their sexuality? Not get married or have children or be seen with a significant other holding hands or kissing? Should all people do this? Not go to the office party or the tail gate party with their person? Should everyone act as if they are single?

The very reason homosexuals have to 'come out' and with pride is because the majority wants them to be hidden, not talked about... not shoved in our faces, somehow not realizing that not being openly gay means hiding, lying... denying themselves a 'normal' life.

Gay pride is important and will remain necessary until peoples jaws stop dropping when a famous jock is seen kissing a man.

Wave that flag
Wave it wide and high



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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Kali74
Do you think all famous people should hide their sexuality?


That is up to the person. I know of people who are not famous who are not open about their sexuality(especially at work). There are many homosexual and bisexual people who do not like the 'gay culture' that is in America and wish not to be associated with it.

As Wrabbit wrote, we are people and not defined by being gay, straight, bi, trans, ect..



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by jrod
 


Sure but... shouldn't straight people also hide the sexual preference then? Should we ban all forms of PDA? Not live with other people so that we don't out our sexuality whether straight, bi, or gay?



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 11:59 AM
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There's not much gayer in this world than big burly meat stacks in clinging, brightly colored suits with names like "tight end" and "wide receiver."

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Edit: and as to the Q in the OP... silly Q. What does sex have to do with that game (other than sex having to do with everything humans do, that is). What business is it of anyone who someone else loves?
edit on 2/10/2014 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


Of course not. PDA with someone you love is nothing to be ashamed of.

Many of my gay friends are openly annoyed by the flamboyantly gay types and wish not to be associated with that kind of behavior. That's all.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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jrod
reply to post by Kali74
 


Of course not. PDA with someone you love is nothing to be ashamed of.

Many of my gay friends are openly annoyed by the flamboyantly gay types and wish not to be associated with that kind of behavior. That's all.


Right so... this kid gets drafted into the NFL becomes a star and then some paparazzi tool gets a snap shot of him kissing another guy... in this society that comes with fallout, it becomes a scandal, fundies calling for his contract to be terminated, FOX being outraged, MSNBC attacking politicians who are outraged blah blah blah.

Does this kid not have the right to have this all done on his own terms?



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by jrod
 


Well that's a tough one, they may not like other peoples lifestyles and they have every right to do that,but its not really their business.



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