Is language needed for thinking?

Mathew 18:3
"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Could this mean............. to see without words and labels, which seem to divide that which is whole?

Itisnowagain
Mathew 18:3
"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Could this mean............. to see without words and labels, which seem to divide that which is whole?

edit on 10-2-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

As little children we are much more 'unified' beings. Meaning, we live equally in mind, body, and emotion. As we grow and learn language and are 'schooled', we become more 'lopsided' beings - living mostly in our minds through language.

Words and labels have their uses. But without experiencing what is contained within these words they are nothing more than a tool. Useful for inventing things, impressing people, telling a funny story, posting on ATS, etc.

But without experiencing the essence of these words (feeling and sensing the truth underlying them) they can remain only words.

That's my interpretation of the first part of this verse anyway - "entering the kingdom of heaven" holds too much meaning and veers from this thread's topic.

A battle field of words or a Buddha field of pure light.

reply to post by Bluesma

If so, children and animals would be more enlightened than normal adults.

Bingo.


At least the way I see reality.

reply to post by anonentity


We think through ideas, which in their purest form transcend language. Language is a tool to allow us to communicate our ideas and perhaps think in a more complex manner.

alienreality
reply to post by ketsuko

 

My sister has cats she trained to recognize words and do things associated with those words, the cat seems to be using a sort of language in that regard..( of course the tasty treat at the end is probably all the cat is really thinking about).

I have cats, too. We had one who loved catnip and had a predisposition to stand up and reach with his forepaws. We combined the two and taught him to stand.

Now, we acquired another cat, a feral, she dearly loved catnip too, and she taught herself to stand. We never tried to teach her. She learned simply by watching us get the first, older cat to stand for his high. One day, when we made Fritz stand, she came up and stood, too, exactly like he did.

Now, she has learned to stand for treats, and we're trying to see if we can repeat the experiment with our young male Ragdoll who also likes to stand and reach for attention.

Clearly, there is some thought process at work for them to figure out that if the other cat gets something when he or she stands, then it should work for them if they stand, too.

reply to post by ketsuko


There is some really interesting thoughts coming out, thanks for the input. language is certainly interesting, when spoken the accent on the words can place you on the earths surface to a very small area like a couple of miles. It also leaves a trace of places you have visited.
I don't think you need language to think, but I think you might have to understand a language to be informed of the pitfalls lurking out there, otherwise you would have to suffer them for yourself. If I am with some one, and want to convey some fact, like "I live in a house" before the words come out there seems to be a prior thought hanging there which verbalises with the same meaning.

For the best answer to how a deaf person thinks without using an internally verbal language read 'Seeing Voices' by Dr. Oliver Sacks.

A very interesting subject indeed! SnF!

But see it like this: When I read your post, I'm thinking in english, and not my mother tongue, why? Thats because what I read is written in english. And when I'm wondering my own business, I'm thinking in my own language.

So maybe there is some 'biased' way of thinking? Maybe we have just replaced our "real language" in our heads, with the new language we have learned?

This is indeed a good topic, never thought about it! Awesome!

reply to post by ypperst


Quote " We have known for the last fifty years, that most people whatever there language speak internally in a pre language semantic whether they are English or Chinese called mentaleese" I got that from a Psychologist on facebook.

If I really monitor my thinking process I find that before the words of my thoughts actually run through my head, I've already fully comprehended the idea in one whole, wordless "think". And yet even though, in that split-second before, I've already "done it" so to speak, I will still go through the whole rigamarole of actually finishing the thought-sentences in my head.

Like one poster mentioned, it seems I do so out of training and habit because it doesn't seem like I actually should need to go through the extra effort.

Also, I don't think everyone thinks the same. I've read many people's accounts where they believe they primarily in still images, or moving images or emotions...takes all kinds.

reply to post by awakendhybrid


Yes it seems we seem to have our own language early on when the brain is still programing itself. I saw a Doco. where this little kid had grand mal epilepsy in the right side of her brain. Because it would have eventually killed her the surgeons decided to totally cut the wiring of the right side leaving the left side to get on with things. Because of her age the left side took over all the functions, and she is living normally, if they did it later she would have been left severely impaired. Which only goes to prove the brain is an amazing structure, and must be capable of many ways of developing cognitive thought.

reply to post by anonentity


Interesting post OP.

I believe language is not needed to think. However, it stands to reason that language can greatly expand the ways by which we are able to think.

Thinking without language, in my mind, would be more picture and sentiment oriented. Surely language itself is based on the sentiment that one wishes one could communicate one's own thoughts to someone else.

I thought I would toss this in the mix here, years ago I had four friends who spoke French as a first language, yet they lived in our area which was English only speaking.

They indeed speak English almost perfectly but with that French hint to it.

One summer we were camping in the Niagara Falls region and we were sucking back the beers and hotdogs like you do on a Holiday.

We were all impaired due to the beer and the good spirits.
The French four reverted to French language during this camp fire piss up.

Me being very limited in my French just sat back and listened.

After a while I just asked them all if they thought in "French" or "English"?
The looks on their faces were funny to me, after a bit no body could answer my question.

They were not sure if they were thinking in French or English......True story

Regards, Iwinder

When you're a newly born baby, you know nothing.
your parents teach you to walk , talk and learn.
So When you don't know any language, you cannot learn as much as someone who knows.
So you won't be able to make logics, connect things deeply.
But try to think without using language, with a little peace of mind, you can thing of things, you can see movie like things into your mind and go through a door in your thoughts.
Language also has many limitation.
How will you differentiate between two people having same name without seeing them or knowing anything about them which can only be told to you by the means of language.