German High Court Blows Up Euro, Says ‘Oh Wait,’ Abdicates

reply to post by Bassago

Bassago
reply to post by ColCurious
Guess to me as an outsider it looks like the GCC was clear saying the ECB was out of line on this and then didn't want to follow through with their decision whatever that would entail.

The GCC was clearly saying that the ECB might be out of line, and is now asking the ECJ if this might be the case... EU-centralist-politics (LOL).

If the OMT was to be verified (well... written first ofc) by the ECJ as it is mostly interpreted now, the GCC would rule it invalid (and as long as there is no clear ruling it is legaly invalid anyways from the German point of view).

reply to post by Bassago


Likely one of the most important stories this year .... (that is besides Bitcoin blowing up today)... moveon people.. nothing to see here...

Bassago

ImaFungi
Every time stuff like this occurs, and the reason stuff like this occurs, is linked to some people making a lot of money ya? Like an amount of people benefited grossly from the events that led up to this event? And are now continuing to benefit from the result?

In this case making money was part of it and they certainly did. However the ECB was directly buying sovereign bonds from countries like Spain to keep Spain propped up. They are supposedly not allowed to do that or the exceeded their mandate at the least. Can't have sovereign countries defaulting though or the EU will fall apart. So this may be more about keeping the EU from falling apart than just making money.

Yea but if its making them money the 'helping people out' is kind of just a default result of the people who are making money off of it seeing a window to make money. All of those financial problems occurred mainly because individuals (greater and greater numbers of individuals) were seeking and gaining greater and greater amounts of money for themselves, leaving less amounts of money for a greater and greater majority.

Bassago
reply to post by jimmyx

 

what the hell are ATS members suppose to do, buy all of our members airplane tickets to Germany and protest violently outside government buildings?

I'd really be interested to hear what our members from Germany and the EU think about this as they took it right on the nose. Perhaps they have more accurate perspectives or more information.

I am not in the EU but my friends over in Greece are telling me some horrible stories about the enforced collapse of the middle class to prop up their pseudo government ( run from merkels desk and banking cartel). Basically according to them they have introduced a new tax on owning a house which is double the average wage , so when these families cannot pay they are evicted and if that wasn't bad enough a new law prohibits homelessness so they are immediately carted out to the city limits and left. Effectively removing the thinking class and just the thinking class as according to my friends if your house is worth under a certain amount ( working class housing ) there is a freeze on foreclosures...

Remove/destroy the bourgeois ( middle/thinking class) control the rest thus avoiding resistance...

Sad times for them they have left family and all as have many Greeks , Bankers now own their land/home/possessions... through no fault of there own they did not loose there jobs they did not have a mortgage (in some cases), but could no longer afford to live at home...

I am not in the EU but my friends over in Greece are telling me some horrible stories about the enforced collapse of the middle class to prop up their pseudo government ( run from merkels desk and banking cartel). Basically according to them they have introduced a new tax on owning a house which is double the average wage , so when these families cannot pay they are evicted and if that wasn't bad enough a new law prohibits homelessness so they are immediately carted out to the city limits and left. Effectively removing the thinking class and just the thinking class as according to my friends if your house is worth under a certain amount ( working class housing ) there is a freeze on foreclosures...

There's some more details here:

online.wsj.com...

What I think of those international bankers, I cannot put in words

ColCurious
reply to post by Bassago

 

Bassago
reply to post by jimmyx
I'd really be interested to hear what our members from Germany and the EU think about this as they took it right on the nose. Perhaps they have more accurate perspectives or more information.

This issue is all about jurisdiction and clear definition.

The GCC has indicated that the OMT (which legaly doesn't even exist because it has no legal documentation whatsoever) could indeed violate German law (because it might go beyond the ECB mandate / against EU treaties) but the GCC cannot rule on issues of EU law, which are outside of its own jurisdiction (let alone outside of reality).

Now the ECJ has to look into whether the OMT is compatible with German law or not... and therefore the OMT has to be clearly defined (written) first. Only then will the GCC be able to rule if the OMT is in accordance with German law.

Does this help?

edit on 9-2-2014 by ColCurious because: reworded a bit

Sounds like a jurisdiction conflict that would be resolved by the establishment of the United States of Europe.

As a German members of the boards, what is your take on the potential unifying of Europe (EU) to stabilize the Euro?

God Bless,

From ZeroHedge on this situation as a multifaceted problem.

The program’s design, however, conceded that the market’s assessments of creditworthiness reflected a real default risk. As a lender of last resort to sovereigns, a central bank must stand ready to purchase sovereign debt unconditionally, in order to neutralize the effects of temporary market disruptions.

Moreover, by tackling default risk, the OMT program created a new problem: private creditors, assured that the ECB would prevent governments from defaulting, were encouraged to lend with greater abandon. Reading the decline in risk premiums as a sign of renewed market confidence in distressed sovereigns’ creditworthiness was another self-serving misinterpretation.
Link

This seems to me to be taking a bad situation (sovereign financial instability) and making it much worse (propping it up by buying their shaky bonds) and to add insult to injury then selling those shaky bonds on the markets to investors who believe the ECP can't possibly let those sovereign countries default.

Which sounds like a ponzi scheme to me, someone always ends up holding the bag and it's usually the little guy.

reply to post by Bassago


You're right.
It also means that IF Mario Draghi's wet dreams (again: the OMT is nothing more than that up to this day) were to become reality, the ECB would be engaging in fiscal instead of strictly monetary policy... which would make it illegal (violate German law) and invalid (beyond the ECB mandate and against our treaties), and then the GCC would be able to judge accordingly (and maybe blow up the €uro? *fingers crossed*).

reply to post by ElohimJD

ElohimJD
Sounds like a jurisdiction conflict that would be resolved by the establishment of the United States of Europe.

As a German members of the boards, what is your take on the potential unifying of Europe (EU) to stabilize the Euro?

I don't want it and I haven't met anyone here yet who wants it.
I believe the majority of the people in Europe don't want it... not us, not the French, and certainly not the Brits... which is also why no one ever asks us (the people), and also why the United States of Europe will not happen.