Indonesians recognize 5 genders, while Americans recognize only 2

An interesting cultural acceptance of 5 different genders! (Instead of just equating genders with biological sexes)

MALE
FEMALE
SHEMALE (effeminate male)
HEFEMALE (masculine femaie)
SPIRIT (neutral gendered soul)

In contrast, the American Psychological Association recognizes 2 genders (making gender seemingly synonymous with biological sex *yawn*) meaning you are either male gender, female gender. Otherwise, you can be of what the APA has designated 'gender dysphoric' if you do not identify as either male or female.

Which gender would you prefer to associate as if you were living in Indonesia?

I'd go for the spirit gender, as it sounds the most spiritually wholesome. Afterall, the soul has no gender, now does it?

reply to post by gardener


Very interesting, and very advanced in my opinion.


F&S

reply to post by gardener


I think Shemale is a derogatory term isnt it?

It was name for porn industry.

I think Transsexual is fine for both.

I don't see why gender has to do with anything sexual.

A biological male that orients femininely in Indonesian society could be a she-male (not a transexual)

Likewise, a biological female that orients masculinely in could be emulating a he-female (not a transexual)

I dont even see what sexuality has to do with gender role (aside from sexual orientation itself)

I propose to take it one step further and include hermaphrodite, with the 5 already present, I don't see why hermaphrodite isn't an option.

Pistoche
I propose to take it one step further and include hermaphrodite, with the 5 already present, I don't see why hermaphrodite isn't an option.

That would be a person with both sexual parts complete with breasts, penis, and vagina. I hope those words are not to vulgar.

Although I think there are just two genders, I haven't walked a mile in the high-heeled shoes of someone who feels profoundly left out by conventional male/female roles.

Beyond the labels and prejudice, it shouldn't be anyone's business when someone identifies with hazier gender dynamics.

Pistoche
I propose to take it one step further and include hermaphrodite, with the 5 already present, I don't see why hermaphrodite isn't an option.

Has that ever been documented? While intersexuala occur at least 1 in ever 300 births worldwide, they are not hermaphrodites.

The reason being, that during fetal development, the sexual organ develops into one or the other or remain interphase. In order to have both gonads, the fetus would need to have two sets of sexuals organs, which is like having two hearts or two brains.. how often is an infant born with 2 brains?

I believe the grand total for alleged hermaphrodites worldwide is a total of some 11 individuals in all modern history. Meaning Indonesians have likely never had a case of hermaphroditism - -and one last time I remind that gender is separate from biological sex whether male, female, intersex or the elusive hermaphrodite.

Until one can change ones DNA there is only Male and Female. You die the gender your born in.

Non PC I know but dont care.


If someone wants to act like the oppoiste gender fine. Go for it. But to me its only acting.

reply to post by Pistoche


Looked it up, found it's all WAAYYY more complicated than I ever thought it was! Check out this article:

How common is intersex?

Not XX and not XY .....one in 1,666 births
Klinefelter (XXY) .....one in 1,000 births

...........MANY MORE.......

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female .....one in 100 births

...........MORE..........

Who'da thunk it?!

It's interesting that they never mentioned hermaphrodites... Just saying, they do exist and are actually physically different than a male or female, while the ones they mentioned are not.

And while there have only been about 11 documented cases of HERMAPHRODITISM worldwide in modern history, in addition to your XXY and XYY conditions, these are all just diploid conditions.

In addition to diploid intersexual individuals, we also have the rare occurance of TETRAPLOID CHIMERAS where some rare individuals in our society are actually XX-XY, XX-XX, or XY-XY (basically identical or fraternal twin embryos fused into one tetraploid viable, often fertile, human offspring) See: en.wikipedia.org...(genetics)

However, I dont see any need to base gender on whatever biological sex(es) or intersex development is present:

Gender pertains to role, dress, and other social mannerisms, rather than just biological sex nor sexuality.

Requiring everyone to classify per gender based on biological sex, as done in the West, is rather limiting and creates the stigmas against perceived gender 'deviance' as exemplified as to one of the most popular defamatory young males throw around at peers these days nationwide: f-g.

In UK, its a smoke.

gardener

Requiring everyone to classify per gender based on biological sex, as done in the West,

Biology is Biology
Your either male or Female. And you dont get to choose.


Gender 'deviance' is exactly that. Just a physiological state of mind. No we shouldnt judge or percecute them. But they are diffrent.

gardener

is rather limiting and creates the stigmas against perceived gender 'deviance'

How ever you put they will always be diffrent. Im a Hetro male and I would NEVER date a male who has had a sex change to look like a female.

soficrow
reply to post by gardener

 

Very interesting, and very advanced in my opinion.


F&S

Aren't there still cases of people being lynched in the streets of Indonesia?

reply to post by mikeone718


Not sure what you're talking about but check out the article I linked here. Seems Western medicine finds way more than 2 "genders," via DNA analysis and by physical attributes. ...A surprise to me!

reply to post by soficrow


My point was that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves and consider them superior in thought while there are things going on in that country that all of us here would consider barbaric.

reply to post by gardener


besides credit card fraud....Indonesia isn't the "authority" on much of anything.

but seems pretty simple....if it has ovaries....it's a female.
if it has testicles....it's a male.

There doesn't seem to be any cases of Indonesian dropping nukes on whole villages, carpet-bombing 1/3 of a nation, nor dropping Depleted Uranium all over the mideas, so I've ruled out Indonesians being barbaric even if some of them are cannibals, at least they arent depopulating the world over.

As for the reply that gender is sex. Wow, just wow.

The indonesian are not the only people to recognise more than one 'gender' The term gender more meaning non typical personality traits and / or sexual attraction fhan their sex which is only determined by what plumbing we are born with.

If you look at the bible even, Jesus talks of a third gender with eunuchs;

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Matthew 19:12

The term eunuch in his day encompassed not only castrated males but also effeminate men i.e. gay people.

The Maori people in my homeland recognize Takataapui, the samoans have their Fa'afafine etc etc

What all of this shows is that many peoples around the world are far more accepting of the fact that some people are born 'different' and accept that they are just a natural part of the diversity of life, which they are

Considering there's only 2 human sex chromosomes so I find it kind of silly.
Just because someone feels a certain way that doesnt really change the fact that there are only2 types of genitalia.