The ET, An Open Discussion...

What If...?


No

This isn't a thread about a certain 'Sighting' or a horribly grainy YouTube video as proof of the latest visitation etc. Note: This thread was written with the Premise that ETs are real for discussion/argument and or debate of the various possible aspects of such a reality. I'd like to have an open discussion without all the normal stigma/stereotyping/knee jerk denial usually involved in this topic. I have a few questions that I'd really like to hear our members thoughts on.

A few years back I posted a thread regarding the supposed vast difference in 'Alien' craft and asked the simple question that if this or that civilization were in fact visiting us why is it that there were such a wide variety of the types of crafts? - UFOs A Serious flaw - My argument then is still the same in that, If they were so far advanced [Some believe by thousands if not Hundreds of thousands or even Millions of years ahead of us] they would have by now logically came upon an optimal standard design.

The rebuttals seemed to be that they were just like us in that they too would have differing models the way we do in either Military or Civilian aircraft. I really don't think that is the case. But who knows for sure. I'm thoroughly convinced that many if not the majority can be explained away by either mis-Identifications in either Military or Civilian aircraft or some natural aerial phenomenon. But are they all?



Reading through many threads, reports and yes watching quite a few YouTube videos on encounters, abductions and all the various sightings as well as many Sci-fi movies and TV shows and available literature I've come away with the idea that I think the prevailing underlying hope of many is that 'They' are out there and many in the modern world would love to know who, what and where they came from. How did they make it past the point in development we are presently.

Looking at the above shape chart one has to wonder are they all from the same race of Aliens? Time? Dimensions? I've often wondered IF we are being visited could we determine by the remaining supposed physical evidence how their craft work? I mean, those interested in the field often read or hear about this or that person being burned or suffering from Radiation sickness...



Or...

Locations that show burned or radiated soil that either things wont grow, snow wont stick or things grow strangely....



Now, this thread isn't about 'Proving' those events happened. What I'd like to ask is could one determine how such things/effects could be created and by what mechanism IF the visitation stories were in fact true? You know, sorta reverse diagnoses/analyses? Maybe this way we could gain an understanding how their supposed crafts work/function?

I want to Believe

But, I want to see some real concrete proof. I'm not going to simply believe every light in the night sky is a visitation nor take anybody's word as proof. I think I'm not alone here when I say that simply because one believes in the possibility of ET and their visitations that again, Not every grainy YouTube video or the latest saucer pic is the gospel truth.


The Argument


We sit here in the 21st Century and almost daily or so it seems hear a Physicists, Scientist and Mathematicians tell us that the idea of Alien civilizations are a very real possibility and that they may even be much older or more advanced in science and technology than we are, they may even have 'this ability or that' which we presently do not. So, why is it so hard for some to believe that they may be in fact visiting/studying us?


IF

They are all visiting us then why? Whats so supposedly special here? Is it our planet's natural resources? Is it our Genetic coding? Are we simply a fascinating Galactic anthropological study of a true pre-interstellar space fairing race? Are they here to help, study, guide or simply guard against us breaking out of our crib too early?

i think we are in the infancy of mankind, babies in the solar sense.
if they are here studying us, it might be to watch our progression. From nuclear (which i believe they are helping to steer us away from), to the next level. What that is i dont know.
if they are studying our planet for resources the obvious few are water, us (for food maybe), gold, and our atmosphere.
i would agree that the different types of ufo are maybe from different races

Honestly through all the years I have been doing my own research and reading and watching documentaries on the phenomenon I still don't have the answers.

Some thoughts... I don't think their craft is the typical UFO seen in your photo image. I think more along the lines of the inner dimensional concept. Maybe they don't need a craft at all ?

For example, take a look at the typical grey, like the photo you have presented. They have large eyes, no visible ears, no visible nose, small slit for mouth. Totally different than our eyes, ears, mouth and nose... the human parts we use to see, smell, taste and hear. The human body parts that we use to perceive and experience the world around us. If the aliens are more advanced I imagine they don't need these human parts like we need them for our sensations here on earth. Some think the large heads and eyes have to do with "aliens" being more open metaphysically, therefore perhaps the mind is far more advanced and capable of things we can't even imagine. That they "see" much more clearly than we do. That we wouldn't even recognize their craft because our minds are not open to it yet. So in that sense we are babies.

But really I don't know... I'm just a baby sucking on a pacifier when it comes to all of this stuff. I'm just a babbling baby. lol

leolady

Or like many have discussed before, we are here as an experiment put here by someone out there and they need keep their 'eye' on their experiment. Personally i like that theory because that would explain why we are quite different from any other living thing on earth.

I firmly believe that we who follow the ufo subject, do ourselves a very great disservice, by automatically equating anomalous ufos (even landing 'ship'-looking things which burn guys) with extra terrestrial off planet visiting humanoids. It could be that we share this planet with civilizations which exist under the oceans, as ufos (again, the ship looking ones) are seen coming and going from the oceans. And whenever thinking about anomalous ufos, I am always keeping ATS poster The GUT's threads in mind, about control systems and psychological warfare. Dr. Michael Persinger made very intriguing experiments which point in entirely other directions. And there is an abundance of ancient bizarre art which seem to depict modern military craft. Also, I am fascinated with the possibility of time travel involved in all this, but that's speculation. One thing that puzzles me, is how different modern ufo encounters used to be, compared with this current era. I highly recommend looking at Isaackoi's threads to see what I mean. Something big within the ufo phenomenon has significantly changed, from my perspective of being alive for nearly 55 years and being aware of the ufo phenomenon as early as my beginning adolescence.

reply to post by SLAYER69

They are all visiting us then why? Whats so supposedly special here?

Possibly us , I live here and am one of us but I find us interesting and odd in equal measure , our cultures , pastimes like sport and entertainment are all , if you put yourself in the shoes of an outsider , quite odd and in a way fascinating.

Is it our planet's natural resources?

That's an argument that has been made but I don't think it stacks up , how many resource rich places would they have passed to get here ?
It used to be thought that water was a rare commodity out there but as we're finding out it's everywhere so it isn't because we're a water world and I doubt our minerals or metals are a scarcity either.

Is it our Genetic coding?

Maybe , perhaps we are part of a Galactic science experiment .

Are they here to help, study, guide or simply guard against us breaking out of our crib too early?

Perhaps we're like the spider in the corner of the room , you don't want to kill it but you just have to keep your eye on it to see where it goes

reply to post by SLAYER69


Commenting on spacecraft design;

I would imagine different shapes could be a result of different propulsion methods or power sources. Say a nuclear powered craft might by necessity require different configurations for cooling and waste storage/disposal than a ship powered by antimatter. Or possibly even zero point energy. Or possibly something we due to our own evolution and development never even considered.

Which would also tie into physiological requirement for whatever species was visiting, assuming more that one race of ETs is visiting. There is also the age and advancement of that species to consider.

And that doesn't even include the different functions of the crafts that you already spoke on.

Why would they visit?
I think it would be interesting to observe other species development to see how they addressed different challenges from how we did to get where we are. There are any number of unknowable reasons an alien species might have.

It could just be entertaining for them to see how stupid we are. Maybe they just like our produce.

reply to post by watchitburn

Maybe they just like our produce

Maybe They are behind our GMO'd produce. (Monsanto,) (I totally wouldn't be surprised. I swear.)

I feel it is very important to always never discount the high strangeness aspects to the anomalous ufos. High strangeness, ("the paranormal and the trickster") is just as good a clue as electromagnetic effects, solid vids, pics, films, etc, landing trace cases, and injuries. I will say that, I experienced the paranormal, the trickster, and MIBs, following the beginning of my own ufo sightings back in the late 1970's.
Even though I'm speaking about subjective accounts, subjective accounts from people who don't know each other, can be compared, for sameness patterns.

Maybe something to hold onto is the FFF...Form Follows Function.

I can imagine that a very much older civillisation doesn't spent much time on making stuff beautifull for the eye ..or mind and will their machines be of minimal bells and whistles but built for maximum efficientcy.

It seems reasonable that ET space vessels intended for different functions might vary somewhat in appearance, just as our own land and air vehicles do. There might be no one ideal design that could be best for every purpose. A dump truck doesn't make a very satisfactory taxi cab. A military jet wouldn't make a very efficient passenger plane, etc. A large percentage of the objects pictured in the original post do have a generalized resemblance to one another-- convex or bi-convex disks.
It appears possible that the burns some persons have reportedly received after being near a UFO are caused by microwaves. James McCampbell, in his book, Ufology, cites reports of military planes detecting pulsing microwaves from large, nearby UFOs, which gave every appearance of being advanced technological machines. It may be that some ETs have learned how to restore the linkage that is believed to have existed in the very early universe, between the forces of electromagnetism and gravity. This would presumably enable them to control gravity and project it in beams, in the same way that we do with the electromagnetic force, alone.
Some soil from sites where UFOs have reportedly landed seem to be extremely dry, even fused by heat. Again, microwaves might be involved. Some of the soil samples are reported to repel moisture, despite their dryness. Some foreign substance appears to have been deposited, producing this effect.
Our planet might actually be rather special in the galaxy at this moment in time. We are in the midst of a transition from antagonistic, fragmented agricultural civilizations to a worldwide technical culture. This has taken only a few centuries. This is a remarkably short and sudden change for us. We have suddenly become capable of our own destruction, as a species. Will we avoid destruction and flourish? If so, how will we manage this? Ample material to interest cosmic anthropologists, it seems.
Our rapid technical development also raises the possibility of our becoming capable of traveling to the stars in the not too distant future. Given our agressiveness, this may make us concerning to the rest of the galaxy. Older civilizations, accustomed to planning for centuries ahead, may already be preparing us for introduction to galactic society; trying to wear away a few of our rough edges.

SecretKnowledge

i would agree that the different types of ufo are maybe from different races

That brings up another interesting question of just how many 'Races' are visiting - studying us? Are they cooperating among themselves?

Some sort of cooperative?

Where the 'high strangeness' aspect of UFO encounters is concerned, I'm inclined to recall Sir Arthur C. Clarke's remark: That a sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic. Combine that with a psychological program of very slowly and carefully introducing us to the reality of extraterrestrial intelligent life, using cultural idioms with which we are familiar.
You could end up with ETs passing themselves off as spirits of the dead, angels, fairies, 19th century aeronauts, and Venusians, and heaven knows what else, depending on which guise was deemed the most satisfactory for a given time and situation.

reply to post by Ross 54

That's an interesting point, and I have seen Star Trek show premises based on that. Gene Roddenberry was very much ahead of his time.

reply to post by SLAYER69

My argument then is still the same in that, If they were so far advanced [Some believe by thousands if not Hundreds of thousands or even Millions of years ahead of us] they would have by now logically came upon an optimal standard design.

Just a thought Slayer. "Optimal Standard design" wouldn't necessarily be an external design. "Optimal" could be internal, allowing for the external shape of the craft to be either aesthetically pleasing, or morphological according to need or want. So we could be looking at one craft with "transformer" capability, or several.

I think the prevailing underlying hope of many is that 'They' are out there and many in the modern world would love to know who, what and where they came from.

If history is any indicator. We know possibilities for origin. Orion's Belt, Sirius, Sirius B(Dogon), Pleiades, etc.

I mean, those interested in the field often read or hear about this or that person being burned or suffering from Radiation sickness...

Pictures like the two posted are what usually lead me in the direction of a terrestrial, rather than ET explanation.

They are all visiting us then why? Whats so supposedly special here? Is it our planet's natural resources? Is it our Genetic coding? Are we simply a fascinating Galactic anthropological study of a true pre-interstellar space fairing race? Are they here to help, study, guide or simply guard against us breaking out of our crib too early?

Seems like a near impossible question to answer. Though I can definitely see them being interested in a young, "pre-interstellar" species. Or are they just keeping an eye on their children?

reply to post by SLAYER69


I totally believe just because of logic....but go a few steps further aand I have had a few experiences that really got me into the topic...My whole purpose of joining this site was listed in my introductory thread and it focussed on ETs.

What fascinates me the most about the possibilities of ets is this....think of us...in only 100 years...not even a cosmic second...we are so much more advanced than what we were before....in another 100 it will be so much more again....ets could be a million years more advanced...or even just 100.....we can't even fathom what powers they have harnessed....

Its my opinion, and have posted already, that I believe the universe, at least the ONE we already know of ( and there could be many, according to some) that life is out there, and its in many forms, everything from microscopic to life maybe like ours, to probably life not at all like ours. It has also been mentioned by some that some of the aliens are from other dimensions too. We have been visited for thousands of years, maybe longer. Alien life has an interest is us, we just are not yet sure if this interest is pro-human, or anti-human. Some races are possibly pro-human, and some anti-human. Most of the abduction accounts relay the same type of story, the earth and humanity is in trouble. Most of us I hope would agree. We are not doing a very good job of taking care of our one home, Earth, or each other. My hope is that before the lines are crossed, or tipping points are reached, that somehow this will all come out that they have been here, and they are here.

SLAYER69

IF

They are all visiting us then why? Whats so supposedly special here? Is it our planet's natural resources? Is it our Genetic coding? Are we simply a fascinating Galactic anthropological study of a true pre-interstellar space fairing race? Are they here to help, study, guide or simply guard against us breaking out of our crib too early?

Those are some of the major questions I have tried to find the answers for since a very long time now SLAYER69 and I believe to have found them since 2007 since I became aware of Lou Baldin alias member sleeper here on ATS thanks to John Lear.
So the only thing I can do is to recommend you to read Lou Baldin’s work about it all.
Lou is even posting all his books in parts for free on his site now.

www.ufolou.com...

I do not claim here that his answers and sayings are undisputed the right ones because how in heavens name can I know that.
But after studying the UFO phenomenon for a very long time now in order to try to find out what it is all about I really believe now that what he is saying is the real deal.

But I am always looking forward to the views and believe of others concerning this all.

Those who are interested in what Lou Baldin is saying can start here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&list=threads

or here

Sleeper's Answers on ATS
Prepared by Raska from Open Minds Forum
..
Source: Forum Above Top Secret, Sleeper's Thread:
"Are Extraterrestrials Real? As Real as the Nose on Your Face"
From April 2005 to May 2006, Sleeper, a member of the Above Top Secret Forum answered questions
about his experience with ET's in a thread named: "Are Extraterrestrials Real? As Real as the Nose on
Your Face" The thread runs for 110 pages and is still online.

I extracted most of Sleeper's answers, grouping them in categories. The members' questions are not
copied, they are easily guessed from Sleeper's answers. Answers including personal context to be read
by individual members are not included.

The text appears here in the same order it was posted on the thread, the first month's questioning was
mostly about the craft, the Army and disclosure, while months later the interest was set on the soul,
death and after death, and cosmology. All together, it is quite dense.

Sleeper's text is copied as it is without any changes, except for punctuation. I mainly added periods at
the end of sentences. There are 18 chapters and 56 pages. The number before the chapter's title refers
to the page number.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks for this discussion Slayer. I enjoy ET discussions of this type

I am not sure really what to believe when it come to ETs and why they could be here.

Do I believe they exist? YES for sure. Are they visiting now? Quite possibly. Do I think they are from other planets or solar systems? Yes and I also think they could be from other dimensions. I think the term "alien" is just a term we use to describe them but what these beings really are I don't know for sure.

I like to think of reasons as to why they would be here. We could be one big fish bowl to them and they are just watching us to see what we are doing. Maybe they made us and are seeing what we do with this chance of life....if so then we seem to be failing. We could just be a lower species they are watching for whatever reasons. IMO the possibilities are endless.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You'll never get everyone to agree on this subject. Hard proof is in the eye and the mind of the beholder. Some chemical residue, physical marks, radiation readings, and credible multiple witnesses, would be enough evidence to convict a person of a crime, but when this evidence is used to claim that something exists outside of our everyday reality, it falls on deaf ears.

I feel it comes down to people having a hard time coping with the possibility that we are not alone, or that the world as they know it will change forever if true. It can be a scary thing for some people. With all the Hollywood films depicting malevolent alien invasions, some movie goers are brainwashed into believing that a visit from an alien race would be just that.

Science doesn't have an answer for everything, and theories in physics continue to evolve in ways that earlier scientists wouldn't believe possible. There are still mysteries in this universe and at the atomic level that scientists still can't wrap their heads around or discover.

To get everyone on board to believe in the possibility of Alien visitation, a saucer would have to land on the White House lawn. Even than, some hard skeptics would say it wasn't real and the UFO was a prop made for an upcoming movie. So maybe they would have to land two space ships too get the die-hard skeptics to accept it.