How Advanced Alien Civilizations Would Conquer the Galaxy - Fermi paradox -

reply to post by SLAYER69



Some arguments here on this thread, are basing their theories on a G-Type kind of star. I think a Dyson Sphere can be constructed around a red dwarf star. The infrared spectrum can be harnessed to its full extent.

Kratos..

Kratos40
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Some arguments here on this thread, are basing their theories on a G-Type kind of star. I think a Dyson Sphere can be constructed around a red dwarf star. The infrared spectrum can be harnessed to its full extent.

Kratos..

Remember that red dwarf stars are very prevalent and the are the oldest stars in our existence.

luckey1962
Heck , they already have conquered the Earth. They live among us, as kings. The annunaki. They tried to kill humanity that they created with the great flood. The new ruler, is working in the sign of Aquarius, and if you noticed beginning of the millenia, we had sunami's. That's his way of telling us , whose in charge.

Time for you to put down the crack pipe and go talk to real people. Im really concerned about your mental health please call some family and friends and dont be afraid to check yourself in for detox all the celebrities do it. Come to think of it they probably have some crazier ideas of reality than you so it will be ok.

reply to post by SLAYER69


"Based on our current knowledge, it seems that it would be easy for such a civilization to rapidly occupy vast swathes of the universe in a visible fashion."

Yes, if a device once built could last forever.

The truth is that any device built by humans (and by extension to other humanlike alien) has a rather limited lifespan. Things break down and the device soon is out of order.

This fact limits any civilization's ability to occupy or conquer large swaths of a galaxy.

At the outset, let's connect with what Dr Michio Kaku has to say on Civilization Types in the universe:

Dr Michio Kaku’s Civilization Ladder

A Type 1 Civililization is one that is truly a planetary society, which has mastered all forms of terrestrial energy.

A Type 2 civilization is a civilization who have an energy output of a small star. They would be so advanced that they could build a sphere around their planet to maximize their energy output.

A Type 3 civilization is so advanced that they have begun colonizing other star systems. Their energy output is massive compared to ours. A civilization this advanced would be able to bend space and time at will. They would probably be capable of inter-dimensional travel and even time travel.

Probably, there’s even a Type 4 civilization, so advanced that it could be indulging in space engineering, terraforming planets by changing their orbits around their parent suns. What of the Quasars and Pulsars that we’ve discovered? Could they have something to do with this space engineering?

Astronomer John Barrows of the University of Sussex writes, “Suppose that we extend the classification upwards. Members of these hypothetical civilizations of Type IV, V, VI, ... and so on, would be able to manipulate the structures in the universe on larger and larger scales, encompassing groups of galaxies, clusters, and super-clusters of galaxies.” Civilizations beyond Type III may have enough energy to escape our dying universe via holes in space.
www.mkaku.org...

The Universe is beyond comprehension! Trillions of galaxies each with billions of stars formed 14 billion years ago. There could therefore have been space faring civilizations that were flitting between star systems even before the birth of our Solar System! If we have achieved space flight in a short span of a little more than hundred years from the Wright brothers first heavier than air flight, think what advanced cultures would have achieved in a billion years!

Even inter-galactic travel would be like a walk in the park for them. They could probably even be crossing from one universe to another (If multiverses do exist!) as a matter of course!

So how do they do it? Try explaining rocket science to a tadpole!


ufo.whipnet.org...
www.mkaku.org...
www.mkaku.org...

I just wanted to add something, the word "conquer" has nothing to do with real ETs on higher levels. Think onions/infinite layers, gravity and hellzones and abuse, then higher and far more expansive consciousness, Love and Higher Technology. If you imagine the Love of the most wonderful mothers, fathers, on earth, multiplied by many fold, they're hero's. They don't conquer but are humble of heart. And the bullies on lower levels that do are all noted, and in the end, none are off any hooks. For our own souls in the presence of the Wonderful Light/Love Consciousness of our Parent/Source, feel so ashamed at our lacks. Its only here we're behind the veil. Some ETs are and some remember who they are and why they incarnated. That depends on grade. Grade depends on the real "power" if you will. And that is Love. They don't conquer but are patient and kind.

reply to post by Unity_99


how do you know that?

reply to post by taoistguy


Direct experiences and memories. And was born knowing family/love and that this world needed to be healed and uplifted. We have a wonderful team up there, but the question our soul has to ask, is are we worthy because we don't feel happy when we step into the light and truth of who we are and our memories in the end facing pure love and goodness. And that is what its about. We're not even in elementary school here on earth.

reply to post by ShayneJUK


I think that the stability comes from an egg shaped kind of thing mixed with tech.

It's like the oldest technology in our world, and it works. If you have forces all pulling in a way, than you create a shell that will have those forces pull on itself. If the materials are good enough, than bam. It doesn't have to be as crazy as you think. Still a crazy thing to build, but feasible.

Harte

McGinty
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Wouldn't we still see the gravitational effect the star has on it's neighbours - which, i believe is how we spot black holes.

On another note, perhaps these hidden stars can account for the massive shortfall in visible matter, currently accounted for by Dark Matter theory. If, going out on a hypothetical limb, we accept this, then the huge shortfall in matter would mean that space is crammed full of artificially hidden stars.

That sounds just like something Doctor Strangelove would say, dude.

Why, thank you, mein Kamerad

Why on earth (if I may say so...) would such an advanced species want to conquer the galaxy ?

Surely their society has solved all of the problems that create the necessity of conflict. I can only think of one reason that might have survived all of the cultural transitions necessary to arrive at an advanced, spacefaring species : fun.
But even that, in a collaborative society, would probably be frowned upon.

reply to post by Ismail


Wrong context.

Conquer as in solve the need for energy. An inexhaustible supply. NOT Military conquest.

Ismail
Why on earth (if I may say so...) would such an advanced species want to conquer the galaxy ?

Surely their society has solved all of the problems that create the necessity of conflict. I can only think of one reason that might have survived all of the cultural transitions necessary to arrive at an advanced, spacefaring species : fun.
But even that, in a collaborative society, would probably be frowned upon.

Very good point.

You'd hope that a species advanced enough colonise might've found ways around the depletion of resources etc. They might've overcome the desire for conquest and slavery; overcome the fear of otherness and compulsion to destroy it.

Then again, the spirit doesn't necessarily advance in tandem with the mind and the tech it can create. Perhaps it's never that different to the discovery of the America's by the Spanish....

But if all this has been transcended and if, sadly fun was transcended with the rest, then the only surviving motives may be curiosity and perhaps the need to nurture young. If a species transcends that facility, then how much longer can it really last?

There has been lots of discussion here recently on these topics.

Absolutely they are searching for them currently, as has been noted.
I dunno what to think of Dyson spheres though. Man they would require massive amounts of resources.

JayinAR
There has been lots of discussion here recently on these topics.

Absolutely they are searching for them currently, as has been noted.
I dunno what to think of Dyson spheres though. Man they would require massive amounts of resources.

Thats my problem with them you have to basically disassemble a planet or two to build one and the resources it would take would be huge.

Ismail
Why on earth (if I may say so...) would such an advanced species want to conquer the galaxy ?

Surely their society has solved all of the problems that create the necessity of conflict. I can only think of one reason that might have survived all of the cultural transitions necessary to arrive at an advanced, spacefaring species : fun.
But even that, in a collaborative society, would probably be frowned upon.

Why assume that if a intelligent species has advanced enough technology, that they will be friendly, benevolent and peaceful?

Seriously. I see this argument a lot, that the only way for intelligent species to have interstellar flight, means that they MUST be that way.

Why?

Using our own species as an example, each increase in technology, does not result in us being more peaceful or benevolent. Look at how advanced we are now.......and look at how many we kill on a daily basis.

What if they are xenophobes?

What if another intelligent species had a FTL ship crash on their planet. Let us say that they are just as technologically advanced as we are right now, and have the same war like attitude in many cases. What if they are able to reverse engineer that FTL capability?

You now have a "war like" species that can now reach other stars.

Would it be any different for us? A UFO crashes.....turns out the UFO is an actual FTL ship. Turns out we quickly understand how it works, and even better, turns out that the tech to make it is already in our reach.

Would you call humans benevolent and peaceful right now?

Take a look out your w i n d o w. See all the life out there? One thing that I've noticed about life on our planet, from Humans, all the way down to the smallest microbes: symbiotic and peaceful coexistance is the MINORITY. There are plants out in my yard that fight each other for territory, water, sunshine........

However, we only have life on our planet to see right now. Maybe it's different out there, and life on Earth is the only place where we go at each other's throats.

Somehow though.....I doubt it. I bet it's a "Dog Eat Dog" galaxy out there. It seriously would not surprise me.

reply to post by eriktheawful


I think its an issue of cost vs benefit actually, and it actually makes perfect sense that any galaxy-faring species would most likely be peaceful.
Slaves? No need, they have robots.

Take the planet for its resources? Why, when there is a bazillion others just like it?

Etc

GargIndia
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

"Based on our current knowledge, it seems that it would be easy for such a civilization to rapidly occupy vast swathes of the universe in a visible fashion."

Yes, if a device once built could last forever.

The truth is that any device built by humans (and by extension to other humanlike alien) has a rather limited lifespan. Things break down and the device soon is out of order.

Not if the device for all purposes is alive and self repairs. Think of nanobots fixing such a device as needed.

This fact limits any civilization's ability to occupy or conquer large swaths of a galaxy.

It doesn't really. However what I find a limiting factor is likely motivation. Why bother conquering the galaxy at all? How many planets does a species need? 1000? 100,000? 1 Million? 1 Billion?




All of which as you can see from the numbers above, are just a tiny fraction of the total in our galaxy.

People really don't appreciate the huge numbers of stars and planets and vast distances between them.

I put this down to sci-fantasy like Star Wars.

JayinAR
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I think its an issue of cost vs benefit actually, and it actually makes perfect sense that any galaxy-faring species would most likely be peaceful.
Slaves? No need, they have robots.

Take the planet for its resources? Why, when there is a bazillion others just like it?

Etc

When you are at war.....cost is nothing actually. Think about all that was built by the US during WW2.

You are right: why take that planet when there are others?

Well: how well does FTL work? Is it instataneous? Does it take a day to go a single light year? A week? Months?

How far does an alien territory extend? a few parsecs? (a parsec is the distance from here to Alpha Centauri), 50 light years? 100? 1,000?

What if their area is further out towards the outer rim of the galaxy? Less stars, less planets, etc. They need more. Can they cross other territories? Is it allowed?

Or is our entire galaxy under some One Galaxy Order? What if when we finally do go out there, we find out: join, or go home and don't leave. ?

The universe is big enough to have everything we can think of in it......and more than likely it has a LOT more that we can't even think of.

Like I said: just because you become more advanced with technology, does not mean you become more peaceful.

Look at us.....we are so intelligent. We really are. And yet, we are willing to kill for our beliefs, life style, form of government, and yes, resources. Even though we actually KNOW that things would be a LOT better if we just all got along, shared our resources, and tried to help everyone.

We know this as a fact. And yet we still have nuclear weapons pointed at each other. We still kill in the name of some god. We kill people to make them see that our way of government is better (whatever that may be). We let people starve. We still think: He who has the most toys (and money): WINS!

Even though we KNOW that it would be better if we all just got along and tolerated each other.

We already have the technology to reach the closest star within 100 years......and yet, we kill each other. We have groups that continue to hate.

I'm not really going to hold my breath on the idea that just because you develop faster than light travel, means that you must be peaceful.

I hope you're right though. Because any alien race that does have that power.....but is not peaceful?

We'll be those ants in a ant hill.

eriktheawful

JayinAR
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I think its an issue of cost vs benefit actually, and it actually makes perfect sense that any galaxy-faring species wold most likely be peaceful.
Slaves? No need, they have robots.

Take the planet for its resources? Why, when there is a bazillion others just like it?

Etc

When you are at war.....cost is nothing actually. Think about all that was built by the US during WW2.

You are right: why take that planet when there are others?

Well: how well does FTL work? Is it instataneous? Does it take a day to go a single light year? A week? Months?

How far does an alien territory extend? a few parsecs? (a parsec is the distance from here to Alpha Centauri), 50 light years? 100? 1,000?

What if their area is further out towards the outer rim of the galaxy? Less stars, less planets, etc. They need more. Can they cross other territories? Is it allowed?

Or is our entire galaxy under some One Galaxy Order? What if when we finally do go out there, we find out: join, or go home and don't leave. ?

The universe is big enough to have everything we can think of in it......and more than likely it has a LOT more that we can't even think of.

Like I said: just because you become more advanced with technology, does not mean you become more peaceful.

Look at us.....we are so intelligent. We really are. And yet, we are willing to kill for our beliefs, life style, form of government, and yes, resources. Even though we actually KNOW that things would be a LOT better if we just all got along, shared our resources, and tried to help everyone.

We know this as a fact. And yet we still have nuclear weapons pointed at each other. We still kill in the name of some god. We kill people to make them see that our way of government is better (whatever that may be). We let people starve. We still think: He who has the most toys (and money): WINS!

Even though we KNOW that it would be better if we all just got along and tolerated each other.

We already have the technology to reach the closest star within 100 years......and yet, we kill each other. We have groups that continue to hate.

I'm not really going to hold my breath on the idea that just because you develop faster than light travel, means that you must be peaceful.

I hope you're right though. Because any alien race that does have that power.....but is not peaceful?

We'll be those ants in a ant hill.

I think the problem humanity faces is group-think.
In actuality we DONT fight over Gods. We fight over resources. It is the Governments who spin that need for resources into more ridiculous reasons for going to war. War has NEVER been fought over religion; it has always been about, "what they got that we want?"

And while you're right that we know cooperation is ideal, very few people have the courage to stand against their Government and say no. As a whole, we aren't very intelligent at all.

So following from there, a galaxy-faring species shouldn't have any motive for pillaging our resources. They, in my view, would either be peaceful, or utterly indifferent. But either way they couldn't care less about our gold.

IMO of course.

ETA: my layman's understanding of FTL travel makes me think it should either be instantaneous, or at least ridiculously fast. On the order of 10,000 times the speed of light. I think the answer is wormhole travel.

Time wouldn't be a factor for such a species.

And if they are somehow accelerating to faster than light speeds, I think you'll find they don't even have a world they call home. They would essentially be time travelers.