were my rights violated today???

If I were this person I would have refuesd no matter how guilty it may look. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has the right to lay a hand on you! not even a police officer unless they have reasonable cause to do so, and then they can only give you a courtesy pat down.example being if he/they seen a buldge in your pocket that may have appeared to be the shape/size of what they are looking for, then you get your pat down. A teacher can not search you, He can detain you until police arrive, but legally has NO right to touch you. You do have rights and if you go to the correct web sites they will explain your rights! You could have stepped off the bus at any time and if they grabbed you to prevent you from doing so then you could press charges.If you did not agree to be detained or searched by a teacher or staff then they stepped over the line!The main thing to remember is police and other officials will do anything to justify what they do. Including making sure they all have the same story. Take that however you want. PLEASE remember not even a police officer can touch you without reasonable cause.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by kam]

The Dean can ask you to empty your pockets, but cannot force you to. If you obliged by emptying your pockets, you have no case. If you said "no", and the Dean forced you to empty your pockets anyway, then you have a case.

The school has a right to search and seizure when it comes to student safety, but loss of personal property would only fall into this category only if it were drugs, gun, knife, or etc.

The person that posted the "under 18 - no case - yada, yada" is wrong. Are you in the U.S.? Your parents DO NOT sign over any sort of custody for you to attend school. Your parents HAVE to be notified before you are forced to any search, period.

However, you did empty your pockets when asked? Correct? If so, sorry but no case. Although, only a judge can decide if you have a civil case and I don't know an Attorney around who would take such a case (unless of course, you did say "no")

Do you know what Ive found over the years that most americans tend to do? Try and sue ANYONE for ANYTHING.

What happened, was just a simple search, nothing more, if you have nothing to hide why not let him search you... why not save a whole lot of time by going with the search to prove you are inocent, and get it over and done quickly... rather than be subborn and have to wait for the police to arrive.

Depending on local laws, yes you COULD have refused the search, but only somebody as stubborn as a mule, or guilty as hell would refuse the search...

So please cut the "oh he touched you with his little finger, SUE HIM FOR EVERY PENNNY HE HAS!!" talk, its just a waste of time...

Originally posted by The_Squid
Do you know what Ive found over the years that most americans tend to do? Try and sue ANYONE for ANYTHING.

What happened, was just a simple search, nothing more, if you have nothing to hide why not let him search you... why not save a whole lot of time by going with the search to prove you are inocent, and get it over and done quickly... rather than be subborn and have to wait for the police to arrive.

Depending on local laws, yes you COULD have refused the search, but only somebody as stubborn as a mule, or guilty as hell would refuse the search...

So please cut the "oh he touched you with his little finger, SUE HIM FOR EVERY PENNNY HE HAS!!" talk, its just a waste of time...

you are wrong...

i am not trying to get money...

i just want to know if this was legal...

Originally posted by The_Squid
What happened, was just a simple search, nothing more, if you have nothing to hide why not let him search you... why not save a whole lot of time by going with the search to prove you are Innocent, and get it over and done quickly... rather than be subborn and have to wait for the police to arrive.

There is no such thing as a simple search,... and nobody but the police has a right to perform one,.. and you need not succumb to any non-official and un-substantiated request for such ,.. just to prevent from appearing guilty and to be on your way.

Yes I imagine that there are still some countries that do this,... but were talking America here.

Pitiful that one can rationalize accepting this behavior ,... and suggest that you are wasting time by involving the police. They are the only ones that can require this of someone. And they cant even do that without reasonable cause.

My forefather's didnt fight and die for my rights,... only to be poo-poo'd as someone not complying with a reasonable request to give those rights up and as being difficult.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by smirkley]

Have you ever considered that people object to being searched, not because they have something to hide, but because they have done nothing wrong to deserve to be mistrusted...

If you were asked "did you steal the phone", you answered "no", and then you are searched...

The full and inescapable conclusion is that your school regards you as both a theif and a liar, and their not afraid to let everyone know about it...

This person did not ask to sue, He asked if his rights were violated. Ans: yes they were. I thought the motto her was "DENY IGNORANCE". There is also a saying "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" So if you break the law because you did not know the law that does not excuse you from prosecution. This school faculty apparently did not know the law. Which makes them Ignorant as well as liable. Or maybe they do know the law, and broke it knowingly, Which also makes them ignorant. If it were my son they would have received a call from my Atty. not for the money as much as the personel satisfaction of showing the dean he does not know everything. See how he likes being searched on the way to jail!

Originally posted by kam
This person did not ask to sue, He asked if his rights were violated. Ans: yes they were. I thought the motto her was "DENY IGNORANCE". There is also a saying "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" So if you break the law because you did not know the law that does not excuse you from prosecution. This school faculty apparently did not know the law. Which makes them Ignorant as well as liable. Or maybe they do know the law, and broke it knowingly, Which also makes them ignorant. If it were my son they would have received a call from my Atty. not for the money as much as the personel satisfaction of showing the dean he does not know everything. See how he likes being searched on the way to jail!

What law did the school break?

I am sorry If I spoke to soon. But this is America, and I thouht the ATS member said the bus driver closed the doors on the bus? Is this the silent way of saying nobody can leave? Would this not constitute holding people against thier FREE will? Maybe not. Plus on top of detaining them they subjected these students to an illegal search. (yur rite) I`m just blowing steam. These people did absolutely nothing wrong. And they did not Find the phone, maybe next time they can strip search them.

Please do not get me wrong I myself would have submitted(MAYBE?) to the detainment and the search because I know from experience It takes far to long to get any real results especially when your talking about a Dean. But I still believe the students rights were violated. Please, Do let me know if I am wrong. For I can take it, By the way, never sued anyone and don`t want to!

(In this country you are guilty until proven innocent). regardless of what you may think!





[edit on 27-11-2004 by kam]

Originally posted by kam
I am sorry If I spoke to soon. But this is America, and I thouht the ATS member said the bus driver closed the doors on the bus? Is this the silent way of saying nobody can leave? Would this not constitute holding people against thier FREE will? Maybe not. Plus on top of detaining them they subjected these students to an illegal search. (yur rite) I`m just blowing steam. These people did absolutely nothing wrong. And they did not Find the phone, maybe next time they can strip search them.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by kam]

[edit on 26-11-2004 by kam]

Well, doesn't the driver close the doors while driving? Seriously though, unless the students refused the search and/or detainment, I don't see any broken laws.

I'm with you, Kam. If this happened to my child my foot would be right up the Dean's 'arse'. I also believe our children are often taken advantage of when it comes to rights and the law.

ok, here is some info. for everybody...

the teacher left to get the dean and the driver closed the door on the bus (and the engine was off) AND the teacher told us to close all the windows so we wouldn't throw the phone out the window. the dean came in and said: "we can do this th easy way or the hard way. the hard way is i search each and every one of you or call the police and let them do it and the easy way is the boy that took it can confess and we can have a little chat."

now, no one confessed so he searched us himeself and not with the police (im guessing he wanted to be "nice" and not allow the police to get involved so one could be arrested). he actualy found my friend's cigarets (sp???) and did not care!!! i thought the school's main priority was the protection of the students!?!?!?

thats some info...

anything else just type...

SourGrapes, Check your information. No one has rights in this country under the age of 18*. Yes your parents DO sign over a version of custody to the school / school system when you are admitted.

Trust me, I went through PLENTY of these "legal" searches a couple of decades ago with NO recourse.
* Unless legally emancipated by a court of law.

Originally posted by Fry2
SourGrapes, Check your information. No one has rights in this country under the age of 18*. Yes your parents DO sign over a version of custody to the school / school system when you are admitted.

Trust me, I went through PLENTY of these "legal" searches a couple of decades ago with NO recourse.
* Unless legally emancipated by a court of law.

recourse???

thanks...

Remedy, choice, option etc...

Nothing I could do about it, basically.

Originally posted by Fry2
Remedy, choice, option etc...

Nothing I could do about it, basically.

that stinks (kind of like what occured to me)...

were you angry about what occured???

Of course children have rights, you can't kill or sexually interfere with a child regardless of who signs what bit of paper, if children had no rights there would be no such thing as a convicted child molester. There's nothing that you can write into a contract between a parent and a school which will allow for a child to be assaulted, kidnapped, raped or killed.

A parent cannot sign away rights that don't belong to them...