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Dr Oppenheimer on Ancient Places Destroyed by Atomic Weapons.

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posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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In case you miss this thread, I wish this was from a reputable source but It is fun anyway.
www.sagenews.ca...
From Char-Lee's great new thread here, www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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LABTECH767


You know when Ghengis Khan (Temogen) sacked the capital of imperial china there were said to be over four and maybe as many as eight million people whom had fled there to escape the mongol's and as the city burned the street where slippery with the fat running from the human body's and before the conquistadores took mesoamerica the native farmers may have produced more food even than today (one estimage though dubious claimed sixty percent more than today).

i would say those are exaggerations or over blowing events.


In europe and africa the Known settlements were small but in asia and meso america they were sometimes huge as far as populations were concerned and as we find more about ancient egypt the same can be said there as well, Rome in it's heyday was said to be the most populace city in the world (the roman world) but in china there were far larger city's with larger populations.

again i think your sources are either out of date or are going from partial data. meso america was estimated to have a large population by the time the spanish showed up. so you are telling me that in china at the height of rome's power they had 10 million people? again i don't think that is right.


Even our idea that the fertile crescent was the beginning of agriculture is coming under seige from such find's as 10,000 year old rice paddy's in china and japan and there are anomoly's such as terraced field's with frozen stunted potatoes that were claimed to be near the site of TiaHuanaco (Tiwanaku) but Harte may correct me on that as I am quoting from a certain text (Mention no name's).

i fail to see what point you have telling me this.



Or as in your analogy it was a pair of arguing giant's one from ireland and one from scotland, You know it was a natural land bridge at he last glacial maximum.

edit on 9-2-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

you completely missed the point.
it was an example of a just so story people made up to explain where the giant's causeway came from, just like that natural bridge.
people believed the giants causeway was made by giants.



posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 06:21 PM
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LABTECH767
That was Bad grammer on my part I meant you were an Archaeologist.

Never was one. My actual career was Industrial Engineering (with a decade or so of being an Environmental Engineer) before I became a teacher.

LABTECH767 I never read deeply enough to have heard we dug a channel out but it does not suprise me overly,

That sort of information can be hard to find. I once turned up a shipping invoice from the early 1900's proving that mica was mined profitably in Mexico, well within the reach of Teotihuacan. It's not in the blogs, in other words.


LABTECH767India whatever the truth is one of the most enigmatic and mysterious places as well as one of the most populace, I still believe the structure's in the gulf of cambay are ruined submerged city's but as you rightly pointed out elsewhere the finds thus far brought up are inconclusive at best and natural formations at worst from my stand point.
Though I personally believe that Harrap and Mohenjo Darro where not the victim's of a nuclear blast I do not believe it can be ruled out as at the very least these thriving ancient metropolis show that civilisation was very firmly established in part's of the world possible pushing the history of the human race further back and one thing I am suprised you have not quoted here is the near by indian nuclear plant that has had several leak's and maybe, just maybe was using the ancient nuclear war story as a cover for there indiscretion's and the resultant birth defect's and cancers in the area.

I addressed it in my previous life - 2006 (LOL) so I linked to my old post on this on page 4.


LABTECH767 You know where I stand Harte I believe there was an ancient civilisation in spite of the lack of empirical evidence to hand but I believe it may have been further back and the age of the human race is possibly erroneous or else another branch of primate's may have acheived it before us though I feel it was us, There are a number of mechanisms that could have erased all evidence and they may not have been a consumer type society like our's, There were no silicon chips in fat man or little boy and the equations were worked out in the old fashioned way with the only primitive real computers being used at blechley park to crack the enigma and not to work on the equations.

Your choice to believe this is your choice and is unsullied by any factual basis. This is not belief, it is faith.

You want that faith, then have it. But do so with the knowledge that what you believe here is completely unevidenced.

Like a Burning Bush or whatnot.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Harte



posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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LABTECH767
Even our idea that the fertile crescent was the beginning of agriculture is coming under seige from such find's as 10,000 year old rice paddy's in china and japan and there are anomoly's such as terraced field's with frozen stunted potatoes that were claimed to be near the site of TiaHuanaco (Tiwanaku) but Harte may correct me on that as I am quoting from a certain text (Mention no name's).

The birth of agriculture has yet to be determined. Open any text on ancient civs and you'll see that in plain text on the page.
Honestly, the topic has never been seriously broached without some modifying preface such as "this evidence suggests" or "possibly" or "appears to be."

Also, the potatoes at Tiahuanaco are only astonishing if you (for some reason) prefer to "believe" the discredited Posnanski dating of 14,000 B.C. for the site (IIRC.)
Tiahuanaco was the center of one of those huge agricultural populations mentioned. There is a very extensive irrigation system there set up by it's builders. Discovered about a decade ago, I think.
Tiahuanaco actually dates to the Common Era. Something like 200-300, without looking it up.

Harte

EDITED TO ADD: Apparently, the Damascus steel "mystery" was solved over thirty years ago.
Read this interesting and informative NYT article about the process H.
edit on 2/9/2014 by Harte because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


The vitrified site is in Scotland. There are several episodes of ancient aliens that are about these sites. Allot of people here lambast the show but I love it if for no other reason than it shows these great sites in glorious HD.

It shows the vitrified walls for instance. Despite those that don't like the show, this topic is covered really well in several episodes and you should check them out. They are full of great information and you do get to see the different sites around the world.

There is more than ample proof that these events may have indeed happened.

The Bot



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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dlbott
reply to post by drivers1492
 


The vitrified site is in Scotland. There are several episodes of ancient aliens that are about these sites. Allot of people here lambast the show but I love it if for no other reason than it shows these great sites in glorious HD.

It shows the vitrified walls for instance. Despite those that don't like the show, this topic is covered really well in several episodes and you should check them out. They are full of great information and you do get to see the different sites around the world.

There is more than ample proof that these events may have indeed happened.

The Bot


Vitrified forts were fairly common it was an attempt to prevent collapses with rocks being fused together. They often find wood and charcoal still in the wall to us its kind of silly i guess. since they actually weakened the walls but mind you the only way to get through a wall at that time was climb it. And that makes it alot more difficult to climb thats for sure.And i guess they didnt have cement of course.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 04:04 AM
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Being from India, I have read, studied with interest the ancient history, myth and much more on India.
I had written in another thread a complete opinion with links on the subject of ancient atomic warfare etc.

here is the link

www.abovetopsecret.com...

First, Oppenheimer didn't know his Hindu mythology.

It was never Shiva who said that
""Now I became Shiva, the destroyer of worlds"
it is most quoted to be attributed to Verse 32 of the 11th Chapter of Srimad Bhagvad Gita.




32. I am the mighty world-destroying Time, here made manifest for the purpose of infolding the world. Even without thee, none of the warriors arrayed in the hostile armies shall live. 32
Srimad Bhagvad Gita, Chapter 11

it is never ever stated anywhere in Srimad Bhagvad Gita that it was Shiva who said that.

The other quote most misquoted to provide evidence of ancient atomic war fare in India is




"An incandescent column of smoke and flame,
as bright as ten thousand suns,
rose with all its splendour.

It was an unknown weapon,
an iron thunderbolt,
a gigantic messenger of death,
which reduced to ashes
the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The corpses were so burned
as to be unrecognizable.

Hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white.

…After a few hours
all foodstuffs were infected…
…to escape from this fire
the soldiers threw themselves in streams
to wash themselves and their equipment."



The above quote is claimed to be from the Mausala parva of the Mahabharatha.

Now let us examine the same section II of the Mausala parva, readily available and readable at the sacredtects.com
Mausala parva -Section II at the sacredtexts.com

Section -II of The mausala Parva

All of you, read for yourselves and compare the above quote with section 2 of the Mausala Parva.

Not a single match. The section does indeed paint a bleak picture, but nowhere does it tell anything like “The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable” (not a single match) or “Hair and nails fell out” (actually it states that the mice ate the hairs and nails of the sleeping men), or “or “ the birds turned white.” (it says …that were pale of complexion but that had legs red of hue) or “ all foodstuffs were infected “ (it says…. upon food that was clean and well-boiled, were seen, when it was served out for eating, innumerable worms of diverse kinds) or “…to escape from this fire the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment” (not a single mention of this)

and the other quote to give "evidence" for the use of ancient flying machines of India is




"Gurkha, flying a swift and powerful vimana
hurled a single projectile (rocket) charged with the power
of the Universe . An incandescent column of
smoke and flame, as bright as ten thousand suns, rose with
all its splendor.

It was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic
messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race
of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable.
Hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white.

...After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire the soldiers threw
themselves in streams to wash themselves and their
equipment."



go, read all versions of the Mahabharata and tell where exactly does this verse come from?
You would find zilch, nada, zero reference since there is no such verse in the epic.

End of rant!!



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by raymundoko
 


Thank you for your three separate posts. There are a number of references about both the Mahabgarata and the Drona Parva and you can choose whichever one you wish. Its also interesting to read the Archaelogical Society of India and again you simply google them. The information about the vitrified forts is on www.brigantesnation.com

Thank you also for you opinion as to where I should concentrate my attention on ATS, I will give it the attention it deserves



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Like you for me the jury is still out on outside manipulation although I would not shock me now. I suspect we have not yet accounted for a number of human off-shoots between us and Lucy etc.

We are currently planning for men to land on Mars and if our civilisation has been further advanced in the past its not impossible that perhaps with a cataclysm approaching it was decided to save a section of our people and something - like an ark - travelled elsewhere in our Solar System and man settled there. If earth was devastated and over a period of time there was no contact, so each side forgot about the other 'society' or we forgot and they simply monitored our progress as we would now be behind their civilisation, It might explain why we seemn to have people pop up to 'help' and educate us as indicated from the Sumerian tablets and reliefs at Babylon and other ancient places and temples and in different cultures myths. Who knows?



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


Yes, but some of these are clearly caused differently and I can see the possibility they were caused by weapon fire.

I also firmly believe that many of the legends and fables were based on actual events. The native American tribes all have oral history of star people as do the native Australians who are the oldest people on the planet.

We see this in modern times as examples of natives during ww2 actually making vine aircraft models of the planes the gods came in and gave them stuff.

The ancients left depictions and stories of these things all over the world.

The Bot



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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dlbott
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Yes, but some of these are clearly caused differently and I can see the possibility they were caused by weapon fire.

I also firmly believe that many of the legends and fables were based on actual events. The native American tribes all have oral history of star people

Yes and they also claim to have been saved by ants allowing them to move into anthills with them. Not to mention talking coyotes.

You don't get to pick and choose which parts you want to believe, in the absence of any evidence.

Harte



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Harte
 


Are you trying to tell me that people weren't hanging out with dinosaurs because there were stories about dragons in multiple cultures? you really know how to crush someone's dreams don't you?



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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dlbott
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Yes, but some of these are clearly caused differently and I can see the possibility they were caused by weapon fire.

I also firmly believe that many of the legends and fables were based on actual events. The native American tribes all have oral history of star people as do the native Australians who are the oldest people on the planet.

We see this in modern times as examples of natives during ww2 actually making vine aircraft models of the planes the gods came in and gave them stuff.

The ancients left depictions and stories of these things all over the world.

The Bot


Well i did some research and i cant find any evidence of these high radiation levels. See we have to take alot of this with a grain of salt.India is going through a transition and theres a fight going on as some want to make there past relevant to their future. Alot of tales are told about vedic text because the religion itself is facing alot of college educated people who read those stories and go well yeah but it doesnt make sense. Christianity went through the same thing people read the stories and go wow that really doesnt make sense considering what we know.Christianity solved this by reevaluating there beliefs i think india is trying to rewrite their history to solve the problem.Just my opinion mind you but i dont think im far off.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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dlbott
I also firmly believe that many of the legends and fables were based on actual events. The native American tribes all have oral history of star people as do the native Australians who are the oldest people on the planet.

The ancients left depictions and stories of these things all over the world.

The Bot


not to overly nitpick but sometimes I can't help myself because outdated information is something I have an urge to pick at like a scab. the oldest genetic lineage on Earth is far older than Aboriginal Australians, they are the Khoisan of South Africa/Namibia and they split away from the rest of humanity prior to anatomically modern humans even leaving Africa. They have nothing in their history that I've ever read relating to Aliens or flying craft of any sort.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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Sorry, but no. Nothing happens in a vacuum. And unless it were aliens, we would have found evidence of refining the materials needed to make an atomic weapon. I am as big a fan of lost civilizations as anyone, but the idea that atomic weapons were utilized by human beings in the past is simply laughable.



posted on Feb, 10 2014 @ 10:42 PM
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While I have to agree with Slayer and others on here, that I think we are missing parts of our history, I don't think I can jump on board with the ancient nuclear theories.

It takes a LOT of infrastructure to create a nuclear weapon on the large scale. Not something that is done in someone's backyard. The refining required for the fissionable material alone......well you get the picture.

It also takes advanced science to eventually understand how to build a weapon of this type. You do not go from using a spear one day with a bow and arrows, to making nuclear bombs just a few years later.

Learning all the science means more and more things are invented, built and used, especially to build up your infrastructure.

All one has to do is look at the past 1,000 years, which are well documented all over the face of our planet: Asia, Europe, then on to the Americas.

How could all of this be completely gone? Nothing at all left, except some out of place things, very small things in a lot of cases, that makes for great ATS threads?

Where is all the poured concrete structures with reinforced walls, floors, ceilings? Where are all the super highways? Vehicles? I mean the cars might rust away, but what about those that might end up buried?

What about plastics? Rubber? Fiberglass circuit boards?

Take a look at what all we have left laying around in just the past 1,000 years all over the world. Then take a look at Egypt with it's ancient structures, some dating back to 4,000 years. We are still finding their stuff, and that was almost half as far back as 10,000 years ago.

Sometimes I hear: Well, they had different tech than us.

Okay. Then what did they use for building materials? So far, I'm only seeing one thing that ancient peoples used: Rocks.

Big rocks, small rocks. Lots of rocks. Not too much (if any) mortar, reinforced concrete, rebar, etc, etc.

Okay, so let us say I buy into the whole "well we bombed ourselves back to the stone age with nukes." idea.

Here's a question that I've not seen raised yet in this thread:

Why use nuclear weapons to bomb people already in the stone age?

Seriously. The sites talked about here, are ancient stone sites. Stone forts, etc.

Why would someone need to use nuclear weapons? Especially when it's cheaper and easier to make conventional high explosive bombs?

Seriously: you start dropping HE Bombs (3,000 pound yields and up), on even megalithic structures, and with enough of them, you're going to destroy that site.......no nukes needed.

And again, before anyone says: well they used completely different technology and materials, I would like to point out that: whatever they were using, we are still using. It's all right here on the Earth.

So take a look at those sites again, and ask yourself again: why bother using a nuclear weapon? It would be overkill (and even that is a weak word for it). And that's if I believe that all the infrastructure required to get up to that level has been wiped out in less than 10,000 years. You have nuclear tech? Then you should have expanded and settled the world.

Now: Aliens Did It.
Can't argue that one too much, other than to point out the same thing: kind of overkill, isn't it? Then again, I wouldn't claim to understand the motives of aliens. If they did decide to nuke cities and forts made of piled up rocks, I guess it was for laughs.

Ah, the moon idea: always like the idea that there is stuff hidden on our moon for us to find. I mean it's close. We can get there in days. Anything left there will have survived large periods of time in very good conditions for the most part (as long as not impacted by a meteor or close to a impact). It would be really cool to see things their (and I mean really see things there. Not blur, over zoomed images that may or may not look like what someone thinks it looks like).

However.....hauling up all that infrastructure to the moon to build nuclear weapons......then haul them back, or launch them from there. Sorry, but that is about as inefficient as you can get.
You don't need to launch nuclear weapons from the moon.

You drop rocks.

Seriously. The moon's gravity is weak enough, you could get large enough rocks lifted off of it's surface, and simply have them orbital decay and hit the Earth. They will hit with the same power as a nuclear bomb. Actually, they'll hit with a LOT more energy than one nuclear bomb, if the rock you use is big enough. And no radioactive fallout to worry about later.


edit on 10-2-2014 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-2-2014 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


I keep an open mind on all of these ideas or theories. What did amaze me was that there is no trace of nuclear activity in both Negasaki and Hiroshima. They have both been built up into modern cities with thriving populations. As those bombs exploded less than 100 years ago and our current idea is that nuclear contamination lasts for thousands of years, I am at a loss.

I suspect we can put the demise of some cities down to the alteration of the waterway supply however, it makes more sense to me that people living in a well set up metropolis would simply have altered the waterway further up stream to keep supplying the city. Its a nuisance to let a city with infrastructure go to waste and to have to move everything.

The stories in the Drona Parva part of the Mahabharata are fascinating. However the Mahabharata is a huge, huge manuscript. We can't accurately say when its contents went from the oral tradition into a manuscript. We know we have pictures in the ancient Temples linking into many of the stories, but when people started telling the stories is mystery to us.

We can't account either for the Egyptian hieroglyphics that show depictions of planes, helicopters and possibly a submarine. What we do know is that someone with vastly superior knowledge and technology built the pyramids, did very concise measuring and had the organisational skills to make huge stone monuments - which was clever because what we construct with our state-of-the-art technology today is unlikely to stand for the same amount of time as the pyramids.

What we can see is a very good example of people having to start up living without any technology and keeping their history, traditions and memories intact through making them stories told to each generation.

We do know that there appears to be a level of secrecy within governments and institutions concerning the moon. That might change because the Chinese are there and releasing photos etc and our knowledge will clearly depend on what they chose to show us - and we can compare the NASA information with that.

We also know the church has had a policy of keeping knowledge to itself, probably to protect its finances and security as an institution. It works within government circles and has helped itself to much information eg The Dead Sea Scrolls which it coveted and frefused to allow scientists to investigate.

Museums and artifacts get raided and slowly things simply disappear. There also appears to be a will to doctor information on the web for political and religious reasons, so speculation and investigation by the curious is going to happen. Its fine for people to try to blast away theories about our past put here on ATS and to criticise authors who have spent their lives investigating our ancient past,, but those who do it are subject to the same censorship of information from which they form their opinions as those who are really curious and want the truth. One cannot get away from the fact that we have a huge gap in our ancestry and past. We also have a planet that has given us a 'quiet period' for us to grow and educate ourselves but we know we are entering into a period of less stability and predictability, so every side of my curiosity is open and firing on all cylinders and jets and nuclear power.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


A lesson learned from today is the bombing of nuclear facilities by Israel so I suspect were there to have been huge wars in the past, their supply and technology would be one of the enemy's first priorities. Also were we to consider an alien presence, perhaps they bought their weapons with them, simply because they didn't want the people here overpowering them and taking their own facilities to use against them. Its all speculation but its also simple war tactics.

Had an alien force come here, unless they had wings they were here for a reason, either trade or conquest depending on what resources we had and our ability to defend ourselves.

We don't have the answers yet but hopefully we will discover them soon.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Shiloh7
 


There are good reasons for the lack of radiation at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Little Boy, the name of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, had a yield of only 16 kilotons. That's very small by today's standards. It also did not impact the ground, but was detonated at a height of 580 meters above the ground (no blast crater). Air bursts like this, produce little to no fall out radiation (the irradiation of material such as dust and ash). It only produced intense gamma and neutron radiation at the moment of detonation.

Fat Man was the bomb dropped on Nagasaki, and had a yield of only 21 kilotons. It also was detonated as an air burst, at about 500 meters, so again, no blast crater, and very little fall out, only gamma and neutron radiation at the moment of detonation.

Fall out is what keeps an area very radioactive after the detonation of this type of weapon. Surface detonations produce a massive mount of fall out that condenses and falls back in the local area. The irradiated material can keep that local area radioactive for short and long periods depending on the isotope's half life.

Air bursts produce very little fall out, and what particulate are produce are thrown high into the stratosphere where they scatter and become part of the Earth's back ground radiation.

Neutron Radiation: this comes from the blast, and is responsible for irradiating things that are not normally radioactive. However, their half life's are very short, sometimes only minutes long. Because both cities had a air burst attack, the amount of neutron radiation was lower. While the areas would be at first, intensively radioactive, the radiation drops very quickly hours and only days later.

About a month after the detonations, American authorities swept the area for radioactivity and found it very low to non-existent (something that they used to tried and say that nuclear weapons were "safe" to use back then to quell public opinion against what had happened).

A very large amount of people died of radiation sickness from these bombs, but most of them received their radiation poisoning not from fall out, but by the initial blast of gamma and neutron radiation.

So what about all those movies, books, etc, showing how if we had an all out nuclear war, making the Earth radioactive?
Oh, that would still hold true.
You see, Hiroshima and Nagasaki had single, low yield bombs used on them. An all out nuclear exchange would use many bombs, of much higher yields. Some would be air burst, other's would be surface detonations. This would produce much higher amounts of fall out.

So that is why Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not still "glowing" with radiation today.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Thanks for that info I admit I have never had the interest to look into the Hiroshima and Negasaki bombs and how they were executed. It has always seemed to me that warfare was more likely to succeed with bacterial or chemical weapons as bombs seem to be clumsy and destructive were one to want to take over another land. This was something that puzzled me as the Sumerian Tablets tell of biological engineering and were one adept at that, a few biological weapons should have been easy to manufacture were one wanting to be rid of a number of earthly slaves who made too much noise.

I don't think I have read about any tales of aerial warfare of bombs with the power of the universe unleashed in the tablets either which, in retrospect I suspect should have been there in the Sumerian records. I know we regard Sumer as one of the earliest civilisations but we can't be completely sure when Indian civilisation started so it could be possible for events to show up in the myths of these two peoples.



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