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Dr Oppenheimer on Ancient Places Destroyed by Atomic Weapons.

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posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by Shiloh7
 


If you don't have the skill to source your material then you shouldn't be posting it in a forum outside of the gray area.




posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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CallmeRaskolnikov
as for people citing parts of the Mahabharata that are completely incorrect i'm not 100% about that either but, i can certainly see what you're saying and follow the logic there and I wouldn't rule that out as a possibility(regarding that specific passage). i can certainly see people mistranslating certain parts thus giving different meanings to some words etc.

Completely expounded on and drilled into in 2006 by ATS user Donner (now apparently gone, but not forgotten - at least, not by me.) Donner's post

Your quote was fabricated by David Hatcher Childress, of more recent "Ancient Aliens" fame (to use that last term loosely.)

Harte



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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I have heard of such locations, where the evidence points to a very high impact explosion, and unless there is a FEASIBLE alternative explanation, I must conclude that the most likely explanation is that some type of atomic blast occurred there in the past. However, I will not concede, at this time, that ANY civilization throughout history, of those we know about, possessed the technological ability to create such a device. Therefore it had to come from somewhere else, from a civilization not of this planet.

The only other possibilities are that there is some natural explanation for such finds, or that there were technologically advanced civilizations present on earth, but that we have not found evidence of them yet. And something like the pyramids is definitely not evidence of such advancement. Now if the pyramids were made out of titanium, and electronics were present in archaeological digs, then I would say that some civilization probably had the advanced know-how to create an atomic weapon. That is because they could have been developing as a civilization for just as long as we have today, but then for whatever reason, we basically started over. I don't think that is likely, but it is possible at this point.

I just think that we would have found such advancements. The Baghdad battery is not proof of a civilization that has harnessed electricity either. The only other explanation I can think of is that an ancient civilization figured out a way to detonate radioactive materials. But they couldn't have created radioactive materials like we can today, so they would have used naturally radioactive elements. And I just don't see them building such a device.

Although I don't necessarily believe in aliens visiting earth, although I concede it is a possibility, I think such an explanation is one of the only viable ones that we have to account for such archaeological finds.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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Shiloh7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


As you know I do believe we are not the first advanced civilisation and the points you raise about different technologies makes complete sense to me. I often wonder if a past technology simply used up all of the mineral or whatever source they acquired for power so all we will find is traces of it and maybe won't make the connection.

I didn't know we had been around for 15 million years although I have read about things found in layers in the earth that simply should not have been that old or have no explanation of how they got there, apart from the one that they existed at that time scale.

Do you think we evolved here through a natural means or do you think we were artificially made by utilising a Lucy or another animal and DNA manufactured or contributed from a third party? In truth we have found nothing we can contribute to an alien presence apart from ancient texts and tablets. (Not that I have a closed mind on these)


I believe a natural physical evolution is perfectly reasonable but I'm open to intelligent manipulation, for sure. The number of cultures whose myths support that idea are pretty high.

ps - That 15 million estimate includes all of the sentient ancestors to humans. It's when our genus family developed. Our current homo sapien form might only be 2.5 million years old but there are many reasons to believe that our pre-human ancestors were capable of society-building. Who knows, perhaps the offshoots were even smarter than us but were driven to extinction.

I think the only way to know for sure is to warp 15 million light years away and look at Earth with an awesome telescope to see what was going on back then.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 11:54 AM
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zeroBelief

Shiloh7
Making planes that could not:
Break,
Catch Fire,
Be Destroyed,
Be Cut - now that suggests to me made to withstand laser weapons whilst in the air (I hardly think they worried about sabotage on the ground and chain saws.
Motionless - that suggests Harrier ability.






Not to be a jerk....

I'd really like to believe this...it would be cool. And I'm not trying to debunk simply for the sake of debunking. But, critically thinking....

If these things COULDN'T BREAK......COULDN'T BE CUT.....COULDN'T BE DESTROYED...etc...etc...etc....


Where are they?

Wouldn't they be somewhere to be found today?

Why haven't we found them?

Why haven't we found more references to them, as clearly later civilizations would have encountered them (derelict or otherwise), and mentioned them as oddities if nothing else....


Again, not trying to be a jerk....these just seem like common sense questions to me.




As far as i remember (many years had passed since i looked for the Vedic Literature)
this "Tools" belonged to "the Gods" which got killed or left us,
we- the average Homo Sapiens was not
a part of the God-Society and had not such Tools.

Everything is true, i am sure that this Planet has seen more than us
and there will be also something after our Civilization!
edit on 8-2-2014 by Human0815 because: spell



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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drivers1492
reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov
 

reply to post by Shiloh7
 

This post back in 2008 gives a good research look into the claims and origins of the stories
www.thinkdigit.com...

As does this ATS post from 2 years earlier.

Harte



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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Shiloh7
reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov
 


I had forgotten about the description about the hair and nails falling out.

Wasn't it already pointed out that no such description appears in the Mahabharata?

The actual description laid out in the Mahabharata involves a plague of rats so vast that they were eating the hair and fingernails off of the dead.

Harte



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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Shiloh7
reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov
 


I am sorry I don't have the skill to give you the site re Dr Oppenheimer's comments on the possibility of previous muclear explosions but you can look on

veda.wikidot.com

The Doc's covered about 3/4 down the page with his comment at the time of the first trial and an interview 7 years later concerning the hill forts etc.

The "forts" quote is not Oppenheimer's. Nor is the "Yes, in modern times" quote.

Both come from the book "Doomsday, 1999 A.D. " by Charles Berlitz, inventor of, among many other inane and totally incorrect ideas, the Bermuda Triangle.

Berlitz' "quotes" of Oppenheimer are not sourced by him in his book, and appear to have been fabricated by him (Berlitz) which certainly comes as no surprise.

Harte



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Shiloh7
 


I read those books on Vimanas. From the description, they wouldn't necessarily have had to use electronics.

Listening at a distance - you could achieve this using wooden parabolic dishes and metal wire. If you've ever done the experiment with two plastic cup and a piece of string, that would be the same principle. They drawings had two such dishes on each side.

We did the same in World War II - but with concrete
wikimapia.org...

Being able to project frightening figures. This could be achieved using a double convex lens and some colored oils to paint animal faces onto a sheet of glass. Imagine the fear of a village population if they suddenly saw lion and tiger faces appear on walls.

Propulsion the fascinating one. There is the suggestion that they use mercury vapor. Mercury has been used in the past to convert alternating current to direct current. The Mercury Arc Rectifier. This was used in Germany in World War II to convert residential power line AC current into DC current for use with industrial machinery.

www.youtube.com...

There is mention that the engines of a Vimana made a pleasant sound, so that suggests they were pushing air around. I'm wondering whether wires were being heated up and creating a thermo-accoustic oscillation through a cone shape pipe so that more air was sucked in from the top than from the bottom.

Tinted glass - I've actually seen that in our office buildings. They affix a tinted blue layer of plastic on the inner side, and this reflects back the UV and infra-red heat.

Tanks of acid that store electricity - that's the same principle of a car battery of today.

The other one is being able to detect bombs underground using a crystal and a lens. It might be possible to apply an electric current to a crystal to generate radio waves or X-rays. These would then go into the ground and be reflected back by objects. The reflected photons would then cause a phosphorus screen to be illuminated.

Producing smokescreens are simple enough - that would require that the vehicle was creating some sort of air vortex around it, much like a helicopter. If air was being sucked in from the top and blown out from the bottom, that would work.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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JiggyPotamus
I have heard of such locations, where the evidence points to a very high impact explosion, and unless there is a FEASIBLE alternative explanation, I must conclude that the most likely explanation is that some type of atomic blast occurred there in the past. However, I will not concede, at this time, that ANY civilization throughout history, of those we know about, possessed the technological ability to create such a device. Therefore it had to come from somewhere else, from a civilization not of this planet.


There's a natural nuclear reactor in Gabon, Africa. Around 2 billion years, it was running with the energy of a research reactor:

www.todayifoundout.com...



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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Fascinating discussion. I too do believe that we have had many civilizations in the past, and our history is a lot older than we are currently knowledgable about, but do have hopes that it may someday change, if this civilization lasts long enough, that is.

I cannot help but think of this story when I think of possible past civilizations on this planet..Asimov's "Nightfall":

www.bestlibrary.net...



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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Yeah, there isn't much of a there, there. Some of the "evidence" is more properly attached to meteoric impacts (green glass sands in Libya) and natural radiation exists on its own. As mr. Nasty states, the particular isotope made by our nuclear weapons doesn't exist in nature and can be measured.

Some mystery school/invisible college types assert alchemy can produce great destructive power... and if you mix chemicals together enough, sure, and some of those guys think that we've destroyed ourselves a few times through more "conventional" means, heh, or likelier, through natural occurrences. But nukes? Doubtful as the evidence doesn't stand up under closer scrutiny, that I'm aware of anyway.

So it doesn't look good for the nuke aspect to the ancient civilization debate.

Natural catastrophes are better candidates IF we've had previous high level civs... which we sure as heck might've ('high level' being a relative term- just more civ than we thought, no skyscrapers and bullet trains- but more cross ocean communication).

That said, the idea we've nuked ourselves back to the stone age again and again is a good meme to have as a warning.
edit on 2/8/2014 by Baddogma because: partial clean up before just letting it go

edit on 2/8/2014 by Baddogma because: lied



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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There's no more evidence of a nuclear explosion at Mohenjo Daro than there is of one destroying New York in 1931

But for those seriously interested in this early city:

www.sci-news.com...



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by ChuckNasty
 


Gold and other heavy metals (including the radioactive varieties) arrived on earth in the forms of meteorites. Finding impact craters displaying a radioactive signature is not, necessarily, proof of the use of a nuclear weapon by aliens or an early technologically superior civilization of humans or non-humans

While very interesting and definitely worthy of research to determine causes we have to keep in mind that there may be natural reasons for the existence of radioactive areas.

Star and Flag for the OP.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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jessme
Fascinating discussion. I too do believe that we have had many civilizations in the past, and our history is a lot older than we are currently knowledgable about, but do have hopes that it may someday change, if this civilization lasts long enough, that is.

I cannot help but think of this story when I think of possible past civilizations on this planet..Asimov's "Nightfall":

www.bestlibrary.net...


Here here!

Most excellent bit of literature that...



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Shiloh7
 


www.youtube.com...
I was watching this video pretty simply made Solar Collector.
I suppose on a large scale it could be used to vitrify stone.
Just guessing.
Maybe some of our teccies on here can try this.

Cool

Well HOT is better LOL



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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nowhere on page 1...OP or replies did i see the current article linked

veda.wikidot.com...


Ancient City Found in India, Irradiated from Atomic Blast

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur.

Interestingly, Manhattan Project chief scientist Dr J. Robert Oppenheimer was known to be familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature. In an interview conducted after he watched the first atomic test, he quoted from the Bhagavad Gita:

"'Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds."






i found the 'crater' at the bottom of the article even more interesting..


Giant Unexplained Crater Near Bombay

Another curious sign of an ancient nuclear war in India is a giant crater near Bombay. The nearly circular 2,154-metre-diameter Lonar crater, located 400 kilometres northeast of Bombay and aged at less than 50,000 years old, could be related to nuclear warfare of antiquity.



thanks
or i am wrong that this web page article spurred on the thread creation
edit on th28139189968808482014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by zeroBelief
 


If these things COULDN'T BREAK......COULDN'T BE CUT.....COULDN'T BE DESTROYED...etc...etc...etc....


Where are they?
I don't think your being a jerk at all.
My guess would be since the Earth is covered 2/3 by water
it would be wonderful if we could look there.
Way down Deep in places that are inaccessible.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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Shiloh7
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Its funny how our concept of how safe our planet is has changed dramatically. Being a child of the 60's I remember the weather being fairly stable, we had the odd disaster but they were rare and localised and outside the UK they suffered volcanic, flooding, storms etc.

But recently the weather has become more extreme and suddenly we are relating to ancient manuscripts speaking of large scale disasters which we are witnessing now. Blavatsky, whom I know is controversial for many speaks of a number of different starts for mankind and mentions the redhaired people etc. I have found the force of the planet in the past exhilarating, but now I am starting to worry about it when I look at my family and our little Grand daughter and wonder what she will face in her lifetime.


Historically speaking, the 20th century's weather was abnormally stable and mild. What we are seeing these days is still historically mild. One thing we have today that we didnt have back in the 60s was the massive communication net via internet and news channels. When you take the world's news and condense it to about 10-20 minutes a day a lot of things were not known that was occurring that today draws interest due to a greater dissemination of information.

If you look at history (geological history) you see a lot more extremes than we see today. Periods of heavy growth of the glaciers, or periods of much warmer weather totally lacking glaciation. Periods of high co2 concentration of the atmosphere and periods of very little concentration. We are still in the glacial era....in theory we are between glacial growths. It remains to be seen if we are in the process of exiting the most recent glacial period in entirety or not. It is quite possible that weather and oceanic current patterns could return us to a period of heavy glaciation.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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drivers1492

CallmeRaskolnikov
the Mahabharata is really quite insane when you really look at the whole story. not only the descriptions of the weapons which are all space-age technology thousands of years "before it's time". but, what's even more interesting aside from the literal vitrification of ancient sites ( a process which requires nuclear level heat) was how they describe the actual effects of radiation poisoning with out actually mentioning radiation. they talk about peoples hair and finger nails falling out after becoming ill along with some other symptoms which are specifically only associated with direct exposure to some serious radiation. these people weren't talking about a meteor hitting the earth. they were talking about an all out war between the "gods" and they wrote it as an actual history not some symbolic fable. the only thing is the Mahabharata is EXTREMELY long and daunting to read so I can see why most people wouldn't pick it up or even have access to its many volumes. but i would recommend investigating it further to anyone interested in advanced ancient civilizations.


The text is a fascinating read I agree. The problem I have is your putting for information that is not correct. The original text holds incredible stories themselves without the addition of fake passages that have been plastered across the internet. Everyone has access to it I linked it in a post above. Everyone can actually see the photos of the sites (which are not vitrified btw). Making a case for advanced tech on fabrications isn't helping anyone it simply makes people automatically dismiss it. See my post above for the photo's there it's a beautiful place. You can also search for the text your proposing in your post(which also isn't there). The actual text has enough great descriptions in it to make for good conversation about the possibility of advanced tech it just doesn't say what is presented in this thread. Here's another read about the quotes as well to expand people's search.
www.jasoncolavito.com...


The weapon itself was called the Iron Thunderbolt. But there is some dispute over whether it was something like a cruise missile which could reduce a population to ash, or whether it was a flamethrower or other heat weapon:

www.jasoncolavito.com...

"When the next day came, Camva actually brought forth an iron bolt through which all the individuals in the race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas became consumed into ashes. Indeed, for the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas, Camva brought forth, through that curse, a fierce iron bolt that looked like a gigantic messenger of death. The fact was duly reported to the king. In great distress of mind, the king (Ugrasena) caused that iron bolt to be reduced into fine powder. (Mausala Parva, sec. 1)"

www.sacred-texts.com...

This article seems to suggest that the iron thunderbolt consisted of iron powder that had explosive or toxic powers:
jayarama.wordpress.com...

The very next day Samba brought forth an iron bolt. Under the orders of Dwaraka’s King Ugrasena, the iron bolt was reduced into powder and cast into the sea.
...
The rest of them started taking sides, and the war of words escalated into a fist fight. They began striking each other with pots and pans. Soon they realized that the Erka grass that had grown on the ground on the shores had the power of an iron bolt when thrown. The grass had grown from the iron powder that was washed ashore.



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