The Meaning behind the Sacrifice of Jesus who is Christ.

This thread is inspired by a lyric I heard by a band some of you may be familiar with. The Lyric goes:

Kill yourself to save yourself from yourself.

The band is 10 Years, and the song is called "The Wicked Ones."

I believe that this quote allows a window into understanding the meaning behind God's "sacrificial" Lamb's sacrifice.

Jesus said in more than one way that God was in Jesus and that Jesus was in God. This mutually dependent relationship has been characterized within the Holy Trinity as the connection between the Father and the Son. The Father offered up the Son to be "sacrificed" for the sins of the world. However, Jesus was also raised from death by the Father, so then how does the sacrifice have any meaning?

The point of the Death and Resurrection of Jesus is sharp and clear: Faith.

Jesus showed us the life that we could live through faith by living it before us all to see. In order to live the Life that Jesus lived, he had to give himself over completely to Faith, and with His death, He showed us that we can do the same. He Is Alive. He is asking for faith because that is what He gave us. He gave us faith and He died to show us just how much that means.

Ask a Christian about their Faith. You might hear an interesting tale or two. Little miracles everywhere, but they paint a bigger picture.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


religious nonsense cracks me up.

Christians can't tell sh*t with ANY certainity because they weren't there at the time of their "good lord" and all they have to go on is a book of fairy tales which includes rules on how to live (or control as I put it). To anyone with an ounce of sanity that should set alarm bells ringing in their head immediately.

Furthermore, christians can't even agree on meanings in the book and some sects even have different books just to complicate matters more.

By the way, try this one on a christian (or any religious person) today. Explain to them that their whole belief system is probably based on something which was stolen from even older religions. Not just stolen either, but heavily doctored, edited and changed in order to fullfil some authors wish to get what they want (probably involving control and wealth). You'll love the look you get

reply to post by GodIsRelative


You are right about the illogical point of killing your own son and then raising him up from the dead. In fact its probably reinforced by the tales of raising from the dead in the New Testament. However I don't think its part of a covenant as most prefer to do, despite the oddity of nothing actually changing - he died, he's alive again.

I think its something a group of priests decided to input in order to make 'their God special and to impose a guilt trip on their congregations. None of the Pagan Gods tried the guilt trip and it was man\s decision to make human sacrifice, because no where do we have any instructions left or myths that an ancient God demanded a human death.

By telling people that their one-and-only God, who has told only them exactly what he thinks and wants, says 'You are guilty, sinners and you owe him for creating you in the first place. So you will come to us and do exactly what we say and you will pay - which incidentally will eventually give us a living off your sweat and the power to kill those who don't obey us.

When one thinks about what little we can gleam from the N.T. Jesus didn't care for their money making off the poor and he was basically a socialist. He followed the lifestyle of Apollonius and probably a number of other men who saw through the Priesthood
and their 'exclusiveness'.

People are so conditioned, quite deliberately from childhood, which poses the problem for them to question any of their early conditioning and even makes those questions seem an offence against God. However, when people look at the religious institutions, very few people within them would, were you to meet them under other circumstances, command any respect from you. Its why they like to wear something to separate them out which automatically triggers 'respect'. However if you look at their teachings they are all about benefitting men and the Institution of religion which is allied to the State. But its nothing more than a pure guilt trip trap. Spirituality is a personal thing and each to his own.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Especially when they remember that they are taught by the religious pomposity that they should accept their position if they are poor because its God's or indeed Allah's will.

Your beliefs are your own. However, there are dozens of threads already in existence identical to this one, and considering how often religion is debated on a regular basis here, I don't think it was necessary to rehash the message you're sending. This is the definition of redundancy, and not necessarily for good reason.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

The Father offered up the Son to be "sacrificed" for the sins of the world.

Jesus was hung on the cross and there were people asking in a derogatory way, why he himself could not be saved.
I think the answer is that God had forsaken him.
OK, that is not the same thing as his being offered as a sacrifice.
God did originally offer Jesus to Israel, to be their king.
That is something different.
The self-appointed representatives of Israel, the Jerusalem Jews, judged Jesus to be a sinner, and offered him over to the authorities to be killed.
All of this fits in with the general story of the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53.

In reply to the above post, that this thread is "redundant":
I think this topic can never be discussed too much.
It will be discussed for eternity.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

For those who want a "fuller" meaning of what was accomplished in Christs death and resurrection, you should read the book of Romans. In it, the author expounds on the reason and purpose behind Christs life and death. It wasn't all about the "sins" of humans. It was about reconciliation, and the lifting of a perpetual curse that humans were under. It's really quite an interesting story, once you understand "the intricacies. But you won't get the details from a cursory read. It takes study.

GodIsRelative

Ask a Christian about their Faith. You might hear an interesting tale or two. Little miracles everywhere, but they paint a bigger picture.

From my point of view they are manifesting synchronicity. Good for them . But these things are happening all over the world in all religions, even to people who are very critical of organised religion.

Now if only we could get healing to really work efficiently with the placebo effect. A more powerful version of Reiki manifesting on a higher level would be nice. Spirit over mind, mind over matter.

I really, really wish I knew what site it was that is requesting for the bible thumpers to come to ATS to convert. They start the same threads over and over, or engage in the same debates. and 90% of them have under 500 posts.

How can we have confidence in the white people? When Jesus Christ came upon the earth, you killed him, the son of your own God, you nailed him up! You thought he was dead, but you were mistaken. And only after you thought you killed him did you worship him, and start killing those who would not worship him. What kind of a people is this for us to trust?

~Tecumseh

The story in the Bible included a human sacrifice or 'scapegoat' as it was part of the primitive society and tradition of that time. People put all of their crimes and ill deeds on a goat/sheep/lamb and either slaughtered it or drove it out of the town/village to die.

This act of 'salvation' or viacarius redemption while being imoral was a predictable end to a story written by the people of the time.

reply to post by Prezbo369

. . . The story in the Bible included a human sacrifice or 'scapegoat' . . .

If you are talking about the Bible, then the scapegoat' would be Satan, as described in Revelation.
12:9
. . . he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth,. . .
20:2
He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,

jmdewey60
reply to [url= by Prezbo369[/url]

 

. . . The story in the Bible included a human sacrifice or 'scapegoat' . . .

If you are talking about the Bible, then the scapegoat' would be Satan, as described in Revelation.
12:9
. . . he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth,. . .
20:2
He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,

edit on 6-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

....and whos sins did satan take on? whos sins were put onto satan?...

and at what point was satan sacrificed/slaughtered for someone else?...

reply to post by GodIsRelative


Jesus on the cross was a charade devised to convince the masses that our flesh, the world, and our bodily existence, is meaningless. This worked to such a degree that a torture device is the symbol of an entire religion.

reply to post by Prezbo369

....and whos sins did satan take on? whos sins were put onto satan?...

and at what point was satan sacrificed/slaughtered for someone else?...

I don't know what culture you are getting your version of a scapegoat from but it is not from the Bible.

jmdewey60
I don't know what culture you are getting your version of a scapegoat from but it is not from the Bible.

Scapegoat

jmdewey60
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

. . . The story in the Bible included a human sacrifice or 'scapegoat' . . .

If you are talking about the Bible, then the scapegoat' would be Satan, as described in Revelation.
12:9
. . . he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth,. . .
20:2
He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,

edit on 6-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Who is more deceiving? The narcissistic asshole known as God who killed countless of every living thing, damned his little minion [Satan] he created to put all his blame on? Whom has only killed maybe two people.

reply to post by Klassified


Read also the suppressed books The Gospel of Mary and Pilate's letters to Augustus Caesar.

The first details Jesus's views about the firmament. Reconciliation refers not just to God's relationship with Man but also God's relationship with creation and Man's part in that.

The second tells of events in Jerusalem at the crucifixion and after the resurrection and what went on in hell in between where Jesus battled with the enemy and retrieved what was stolen, the souls of men.

Our souls, our energy, being separated from God, from the Source and instead, locked in darkness and pain is not good for us, for creation or for God.

reply to post by Prezbo369

Scapegoat

. . . and the other to be the "Azazel" scapegoat to be sent away into the wilderness. . .
. . . Seventh-day Adventist Christians understand this symbolism differently. As the Azazel Goat was traditionally understood by Jews of antiquity and Christians of the reformation to represent Satan, . . .
en.wikipedia.org...

Where the "differently" comment refers to the earlier statement in the preceding paragraph

. . . Jesus Christ is seen to have fulfilled all of the Biblical "types" . . .

to the modern pop-culture version of religion which now-days passes for Christianity.

OK, I understand this is a bit confusing, so let me explain:
Modern pop-culture "Christianity" is a dumbed-down slogan based belief system, only loosely based on the Bible where they see that as a data dump to be mined for little tid-bits to be quoted out of context as "proof-texts".
This version of religion is what Wikipedia is quoting, where it just throws the whole book at Jesus and if there is something that can be bent to look like a prophecy to "prove" Jesus, then they say that Jesus fulfilled it, whether he actually did or not, and calling anyone who questions it, "of little faith".

What is in Wikimedia next is the dissenting voice of traditional Christianity and Old Testament theology, that says, no, the typology does not here fit Jesus, it better fits Satan, who in Revelation, is juxtaposed to the very word, Azazel.

reply to post by strongfp

Who is more deceiving? The narcissistic asshole known as God who killed countless of every living thing, damned his little minion [Satan] he created to put all his blame on? Whom has only killed maybe two people.

To me, "Satan" is more a literary device to make use of certain preexisting symbolic imagery, than as an actual person.