DNA analysis of Paracas skulls found to be human-like creature.

LeatherNLace
Color me skeptical...

From the OP article:

The samples were sent to the late Lloyd Pye, founder of the Starchild Project, who delivered the samples to a geneticist in Texas for DNA testing.

Did Lloyd Pye ever come across a skull that WAS human? This Pye character was a charlatan as far as I am concerned.

I agree the other problem with this is this piece of txt.

It had mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) with mutations unknown in any human, primate, or animal known so far. But a few fragments I was able to sequence from this sample -

Did they have enough to draw the conclusion made and also this.

Tello found more than 300 of these elongated skulls, which are believed to date back around 3,000 years -

3000 years old why haven't others been found?

rickymouse

The binding makes some distinct impression marks on most of the skulls. On top of that the skull suture marks are different on the ones he saw. If a person does not go along with the consensus of the time or their trained procedures, most professionals lose their right to engage in their profession. You ought to know this, you are a doctor.

Could you please post some examples of these skull sutures that are so different they require an Extraterrestrial explanation alongside what should be conventionally expected in a conventionally Artificially Deformed Skull?

If this is such an important talking point from the perspective of evidence, then, there should, by all counts, be some ready easily found and available examples of high definition close ups all clearly unambiguously labelled and diagramed with arrows and side-by-side comparisons, X-Rays, and the whole work-up all over every and any fringe resource that accepts/promotes an ET explanation.

rickymouse

NavyDoc

rickymouse
S&F for bringing this to us. I know someone who has seen one of these skulls in person and there was no evidence of binding on the skull. The person has the necessary schooling in this field also. Of course, he does not try to challenge the science governing this because he wants to retain his credentials.

What would "evidence of binding" be on a skull?

Why would he "lose his credentials?" They don't take your PhD away.

The binding makes some distinct impression marks on most of the skulls. On top of that the skull suture marks are different on the ones he saw. If a person does not go along with the consensus of the time or their trained procedures, most professionals lose their right to engage in their profession. You ought to know this, you are a doctor.

I'm a builder, if I don't follow a designed set of rules they pull my license. Lots of the practices used in home building don't meet my personal standards, I tend to overbuild things to last a long time. I do have the ability to deny the job if my standards cause conflict but not to alter the construction from the requirements. I had to get a written statement from the truss manufacturer that putting the trusses used at 24 inches OC could be used at 16 inches on center. There had to be certified engineering information included. All the load ratings jumped way up. My friends roof could support the weight of three D9 Caterpiller buldozers...yet I had to follow the rules or I couldn't put them at 16" oc.

Binding does not leave marks on the skull (no rope marks, board marks, etc). Suture patterns differ depending on the age of the individual when binding starts and what method of "binding" is used. Various cultures use various methods to elongate and/or flatten the skull.

I am a doctor and you don't lose your license to practice medicine unless for criminal or grossly negligent activities. You never lose your PhD. He wouldn't lose his right to practice his profession simply for having a different theory. This "I didn't say anything or "THEY" might ruin me sounds' like a BS excuse to me because I can't imagine how "challenging the accepted science" would lose him anything unless it was through fraud. If an anthropologist found evidence of a new hominid species, akin to discovery of the Neanderthal, they would get the Nobel Prize. I don't buy "accepted science is keeping this down" for that very reason. The only trouble with accepted science, is that science doesn't accept the "I don't know what this is so it must be aliens" leaping to conclusions a lot of these "experts" make.

Academia is quite different than maintaining a contractor's license. Now I'm very curious. What is his degree and credentialing?

reply to post by skuly


Text Purple

Hi Skully, I love your post S&F!
So much so I had to read more.
www.ancient-origins.net...
www.starchildproject.com...
www.ancient-origins.net...
It is very exciting indeed.
Thank You for Sharing.

This thread and certain others recently are a bit of a concern.

Some years ago this would have gone maybe 2 pages before 'total lack of evidence', 'very suspect credentials' and 'no credible professional DNA analysis' as well as 'suspect source' would have rendered the thread as bunk.

I cannot understand those of rational mind believing anything based on the source of this thread, let alone defending and flagging it.

Isn't ATS about DENYING ignorance.

theabsolutetruth
This thread and certain others recently are a bit of a concern.

Want a refund?

Some years ago this would have gone maybe 2 pages before 'total lack of evidence', 'very suspect credentials' and 'no credible professional DNA analysis' as well as 'suspect source' would have rendered the thread as bunk.

Why?

Because those who choose not to believe or care to even ponder the possibility should dictate to those who do about what should or shouldn't be discussed?

I cannot understand those of rational mind believing anything based on the source of this thread, let alone defending and flagging it.

I starred and flagged it because it was an interesting discussion and debate which at times was kind of funny considering those who get upset because others want to discuss the topic whether those judging them for doing so care or not.

Isn't ATS about DENYING ignorance.

Sure is.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Debating the subject is one thing. Using frauds as a source to back up your side of the argument is another.

raymundoko
Debating the subject is one thing. Using frauds as a source to back up your side of the argument is another.

Okay...

Put your money where your mouth is.

Show me where they have been proven to be frauds.

Don't give me your opinion on the subject. I want actual proof of they being proved frauds.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


I wonder how the inside of the cranial cavity matches up with a human? you can tell a lot about a brain by the inside layer of the cranial cavity. if it's not a human brain then it's not human. they've done that with Pye's skull and it's not even close to a human brain.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Keep your shirt on.

This isn't your thread, it isn't about you or the poster of the thread, or me, but the content of the OP.

I cannot and won't believe something based on nothing.

There isn't any reliable or credible DNA analysis and the skull shape isn't anomalous to other deliberate cranial manipulation.

Every reputable research facility worth their salt would be all over this for confirmation of the DNA , using their own professional analysis, if there was even the merest hint of it being credible.

The 'starchild foundation' would want this confirmation more than anyone so how come they aren't getting it analysed properly?

There is legitimate archaeological research going on there and plenty about the Paracas culture.

www.archaeological.org...
www.ifrglobal.org...

The Paracas culture of coastal Peru is known for its exquisite art. It is also known for explicit presentation of violence, in particular, trophy head iconography on textiles and ceramics. At the same time, the Paracas peoples constructed some of the earliest monumental architecture on the Peruvian south coast – enormous adobe platform mounds rising more than 10 meters above the alluvial plain. This confluence of organized violence and the construction of monumental ritual structures make Paracas one of the best case studies for the study of early complex societies in Peru. For the 2014 season, this field school will focus on two major Paracas mound sites at the Chincha Valley: Cerro del Gentil and Huaca Soto. Through careful excavation and analysis of recovered material culture, students will study the nature of conflict and cooperation that characterized the Paracas society and examine issues of violence, coordinated action, and social complexity.

books.google.co.uk... K5PoA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_h_0UunnLIbe7AbjqoDoCQ&ved=0CH8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=paracas%20archaeology%20dna&f=false

It's a heady subject.

Let's keep it friendly, Please.

Ball not the player.

Thanks

theabsolutetruth
I cannot and won't believe something based on nothing.

Nobody is asking you to believe.

There isn't any reliable or credible DNA analysis and the skull shape isn't anomalous to other deliberate cranial manipulation.

This is exactly why they should as I've already stated earlier in this thread be tested in a transparent manner. Then we'll know for sure.

Every reputable research facility worth their salt would be all over this for confirmation of the DNA , using their own professional analysis, if there was even the merest hint of it being credible.

You wont mind if more testing takes place and some here at ATS discuss that as well?

The 'starchild foundation' would want this confirmation more than anyone so how come they aren't getting it analysed properly?

You do realize all they ever wanted this whole time was for the skull to be fully tested right? No institution would touch it because of the stigma involved. The very type of stigma some of these replies generate. They have their reputation to protect.

bottleslingguy
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

I wonder how the inside of the cranial cavity matches up with a human? you can tell a lot about a brain by the inside layer of the cranial cavity. if it's not a human brain then it's not human. they've done that with Pye's skull and it's not even close to a human brain.

More than likely, they dug up, or got sold the skull of this poor child:



or a similar child where the one pictured resulted from parental gene mutation caused by exposure from the Kyshtym Nuclear Disaster of 1957 in soviet Russia.

Just because it's strange, unconventional, or unknown to you personally, don't mean its aliens, and it's strongly advisable that one doesn't go about swallowing just any bait thrown at them by every side show with a two headed snake, deformed skull, or anything else unusual.

Require some accredited weight before eating up any and every old buzz word paraded around without any representation or accountability by actual, named, legitimate scientists.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Again stop the personal attacks.

The story of the OP is not credible, I won't believe it.

I am surprised that some do. It isn't logical.

If I choose to discuss my disbelief of the story of the OP of this thread I will, it's a discussion forum, that is it's purpose.

Telling people to get off if they don't agree to you or OP is not the way of discussion forums.

theabsolutetruth
Again stop the personal attacks.

There are/were no personal attacks.

Stop accusing me of it.

theabsolutetruth
The story of the OP is not credible, I won't believe it.

Thats fine.

I am surprised that some do. It isn't logical.

Since when has the Universe ever had to comply to our limited Human Logic?

it's a discussion forum, that is it's purpose.

Exactly my point. Thanks for validating it for me.

Telling people to get off if they don't agree to you or OP is not the way of discussion forums.

At the risk of going even further off topic could you please tell me where exactly did I tell anybody anywhere in this thread to do that?

AGAIN

The topic:


DNA analysis of Paracas skulls found to be human-like creature.

Well
I've found this little bit of info on Dienekes blog.

mtDNA from pre-Columbian Peru
Yet another case in which differentiation of ancient with modern inhabitants is established. The paper discusses this issue:
The significant differentiation between the ancient Peruvian coastal populations (Shimada et al., 2004; this study) to the ancient highland and modern Peruvian populations cannot be explained satisfyingly in this moment. Although a recent work of Lewis (2009) shows that for genetic differences between the ancient and contemporary Andean populations genetic drift cannot be rejected as a cause, especially when only relying on mitochondrial haplogroup data, this explanation does not fit for the observed coast-highland differentiation. When the Palpa data is compared diachronically, new haplogroups and haplotypes appear and the overall genetic variability in all studied populations is high. Beside the genetic data, the insights in the cultural dynamic processes show that there were relatively large populations, dynamic processes of spatial and intercultural exchange. All those observations definitely are not compatible with the genetic drift scenario. But, the influences of the evolutionary forces on the observed genetic distribution patterns have to be taken into account and can not be utterly rejected. When compared with more mitochondrial datasets from South America, the Palpa populations show a high affinity to the contemporary indigenous populations of the Southern Andes and Tierra del Fuego like the Mapuche, Pehuenche, and Yaghan in Chile (Moraga et al., 2000). All the three populations show high frequencies of haplogroups C (41%–48%) and D (46%–52%) comparable with the prehistoric Palpa and Paracas Peninsula populations (cf. Table 4).
The current paper is a great step forward in the study of South American prehistory, as the large samples allow us to speak quite confidently about gene pool compositions.

A real problem faced by ancient DNA studies is that of inference of population movements based on modern haplogroup frequencies. Is the similarity between prehistoric Palpa and Paracas Peruvians (high C and D, almost non-existent A) with modern Southern Andeans and Tierra del Fuegoans the result of a genetic relationship? It is hard to arrive at any conclusions until we see what prehistoric Southern Andeans and Tierra del Fuegoans looked like.

The same problem was faced in the study of Etruscans, where relationships of modern Tuscans or ancient Etruscans with the modern Near East were discovered, but such relationships have a question mark next to them until we study the ancient Near East directly.

Hopefully, in the coming years, it will become more feasible to fill up the map of ancient mtDNA gene pools in several locations around the world, allowing us both to understand facets of mtDNA evolution, as well as to correct our inferences of population movements based on modern-day haplogroup distributions.

American Journal of Physical Anthropology doi:10.1002/ajpa.21135

And

Pre-Columbian population dynamics in coastal southern Peru: A diachronic investigation of mtDNA patterns in the Palpa region by ancient DNA analysis

Lars Fehren-Schmitz et al.

Abstract

Alternative models have been proposed to explain the formation and decline of the south Peruvian Nasca culture, ranging from migration or invasion to autochthonous development and ecological crisis. To reveal to what extent population dynamic processes accounted for cultural development in the Nasca mainland, or were influenced by them, we analyzed ancient mitochondrial DNA of 218 individuals, originating from chronologically successive archaeological sites in the Palpa region, the Paracas Peninsula, and the Andean highlands in southern Peru. The sampling strategy allowed a diachronic analysis in a time frame from approximately 800 BC to 800 AD. Mitochondrial coding region polymorphisms were successfully analyzed and replicated for 130 individuals and control region sequences (np 16021-16408) for 104 individuals to determine Native American mitochondrial DNA haplogroups and haplotypes. The results were compared with ancient and contemporary Peruvian populations to reveal genetic relations of the archaeological samples. Frequency data and statistics show clear proximity of the Nasca populations to the populations of the preceding Paracas culture from Palpa and the Peninsula, and suggest, along with archaeological data, that the Nasca culture developed autochthonously in the Rio Grande drainage. Furthermore, the influence of changes in socioeconomic complexity in the Palpa area on the genetic diversity of the local population could be observed. In all, a strong genetic affinity between pre-Columbian coastal populations from southern Peru could be determined, together with a significant differentiation from ancient highland and all present-day Peruvian reference populations, best shown in the differential distribution of mitochondrial haplogroups.

dienekes.blogspot.com...

Some professional research on the Paracas.

cranial manipulation

Trephination and cranial manipulation

Trephination was a primitive skull surgery used by the Nazca that relieved pressure on the brain from battle wounds or for ritual purposes. It entails the removal of one or more sections of bone from the skull (while the person is still alive). Evidence of trephination has been seen through the analysis of excavated skulls. Some of the skulls show signs of healing, evidence that some individuals who underwent the procedure had survived.

Elongated skulls, as a result of skull manipulation, were also seen in the excavations from Cahuachi. This effect was achieved by binding a cushion to an infant's forehead and a board to the back of the head. Archaeologists can only speculate as to why this was done to some of the skulls. Several theories suggest skull manipulation created an ethnic identity, formed the individual into a social being, or may have illustrated social status. (Silverman and Proulx, 2002)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Abstract

Alternative models have been proposed to explain the formation and decline of the south Peruvian Nasca culture, ranging from migration or invasion to autochthonous development and ecological crisis. To reveal to what extent population dynamic processes accounted for cultural development in the Nasca mainland, or were influenced by them, we analyzed ancient mitochondrial DNA of 218 individuals, originating from chronologically successive archaeological sites in the Palpa region, the Paracas Peninsula, and the Andean highlands in southern Peru.

The sampling strategy allowed a diachronic analysis in a time frame from approximately 800 BC to 800 AD. Mitochondrial coding region polymorphisms were successfully analyzed and replicated for 130 individuals and control region sequences (np 16021-16408) for 104 individuals to determine Native American mitochondrial DNA haplogroups and haplotypes.

The results were compared with ancient and contemporary Peruvian populations to reveal genetic relations of the archaeological samples. Frequency data and statistics show clear proximity of the Nasca populations to the populations of the preceding Paracas culture from Palpa and the Peninsula, and suggest, along with archaeological data, that the Nasca culture developed autochthonously in the Rio Grande drainage.

Furthermore, the influence of changes in socioeconomic complexity in the Palpa area on the genetic diversity of the local population could be observed. In all, a strong genetic affinity between pre-Columbian coastal populations from southern Peru could be determined, together with a significant differentiation from ancient highland and all present-day Peruvian reference populations, best shown in the differential distribution of mitochondrial haplogroups.
2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

www.academia.edu...

reply to post by SLAYER69

Interesting find.

I think our true history is much stranger than we yet realize. There is a history before the history that we are aware of. Some will automatically scream 'Aliens' but I suspect we may be dealing with another possibly forgotten ancient hominid line from here on Terra Firma. I for one will maintain an open mind and keep investigating...

I believe you and I tend to share some of the same suspicions and for the same basic reasons and general examples of evidence. (or lack of it, where it should be in some cases.)

I still maintain hope that some intact and perhaps even functional artifacts from that very distant past remain. (and who really knows if others came before that, too?) The locations for such things to be found come to fill a smaller list every year (or month, at times) but there still exist some interesting locations around this rock of ours. Some of them are in exceptionally remote areas, too. Heck, we still have a whole continent measurably larger than America, buried under Ice now but once a thriving land of life and..who knows how high level or complex for the time periods it's seen?