11, 13 and 33 The Illuminati / Freemason Signature

Originally posted by Sauron
*SNIP*

Above material can be found here:

www.trosch.org...

Imagine that, another copy and paste by one of the "studious" detractors of Freemasonry. I guess the impetus to craft a cogent post ( and one grounded in fact) has gone the way of the Dodo...

In the future might I suggest plagiarizing material that is correct?

Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S, Grant were not Masons in waiting (whatever that means).

Lyndon B Johnson was only Initiated an Entered Apprentice in 1937, and never went further (in other words, he wasn't a Mason either).

George H. Bush is not a Mason (nor is "W").

William Clinton is not in the Skull & Bones.

Google again...

Mod note: The grossly oversize quote will diminish to a *SNIP* when previously plagiarized material has been properly credited.


[edit on 22/11/2004 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 27/11/2004 by Mirthful Me]

You beat me to it you crafty monkey you!


Wow, that really puts a damper on your credibility there, Sauron. At least you could give the guy his credit...

TrueLies, this has been covered (probably more than once or twice) here on ATS, I will try to find the relevant thread for you. I found the theory you are supporting, well, interesting, as well, but there are several factors that detract from it. The one that sticks out most in my mind is that at this country's inception, the White House, not even the Capitol was in the same place. Kind of hard to work occult symbols into streets and buildings that didn't exist at the time.

I've been up in the top the Washington Monument, too, but I didn't get any bad vibes or anything like that. It's actually quite a sight.

You seem like an intelligent person, just keep researching, you'll get to the bottom of it. Though you should consider studying some more reliable resources. Conspiracy theory sites tend to get a little over the top...


* Yeah, just what is a "Mason in waiting" anyways? Would that be like me? *

[edit on 11/22/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
George H. Bush is not a Mason (nor is "W").

William Clinton is not in the Skull & Bones.

Studying masonry for what it is doesn't mean that the studier is incorrect... Just because your a mason doesn't mean that you know everything about masonry... Symbolism plays a big role in masonry does it not??

anyhoodle, you gave a link to inaugeration ceremonies and the kinds of bibles to be presidents swore upon, washington used the masonic bible? george w bush wanted to use it but he had to use a his family bible instead... whatever it says on that site you supported, goes against what you just said about them... btw, lincoln is part of my family's history...
My now dead grandmother's great grandfather was brother's with abe's father, I believe... 2 generations of grandfather's, a cousin, oh hell... I can't remember... I'd have to ask my mom, however, he wasn't a mason, that I know. Could be why he was murdered, he wasn't one of them?? who knows...

anyway... just to lighten up this thread a bit... I'm hungry. wow... how enlightening eh.

ps:And just because it's copied and pasted doesn't mean I believe it... I was actually looking for a show I saw last night about a little girl's nde and this popped up so I copied and pasted it cuz i knew some might find it interesting. I wasn't particularly thinking of whether or not the mason's would find it an interesting read... cuz we all know they like to come on here and discredit anything that has to do with the "craft"...

I posted this to hear your opinion on what it said nothing more nothing less, I my self know nothing to nil on the Masons and usually enjoy your response to statements and questions but I see by your response this time it must have hit a nerve.
P.S. not that it matters much but I was in the Process of editing and what not but what ever I�m guilty as charged

[edit on 22/11/2004 by Sauron]

Originally posted by The Axeman
I've been up in the top the Washington Monument, too, but I didn't get any bad vibes or anything like that. It's actually quite a sight.

You seem like an intelligent person, just keep researching, you'll get to the bottom of it. Though you should consider studying some more reliable resources. Conspiracy theory sites tend to get a little over the top...

I'm done on this thead, the intent was to copy and paste what I read so other people who take an interest in the "secret" societies could have a read... yup, it's that innocent... anyhoodle, i'm off to read a book I just ordered...
thanks for the compliment. ciao!

Originally posted by TrueLies
thanks for the compliment. ciao!

No problem... I'm full of 'em.

True Lies - why don't you give us a break! Stop using ATS to Spread your Propaganda!!! We have seen all of this Info Before on other
NWO Nut Cases Web Sites - we don't need to see it again! The Masons didn't respond because they are probably real tired of dealing with Propaganda mongers like you for so long!!!

What is wrong with being a Pagan or an Occultist or a Symbologist? These are all Legitimate areas of Study & Practice!!!

OK so say the "Illuminati" exists - What are you going to do about it? Stop blaming what Governmental & Church & Corporate Leaders are doing on this "Secret & Hidden" stuff. What they are doing is apparent - it is in the Media & right in front of your Faces!!! When people like BUSH have no Explanations & have not been held Accountable - what does your type do? You vote for him again & re-elect him again - that�s what you do!!!

BUSH = I am just a good old' boy Southern Christian Commoner like you - Never mind my Powerful & Wealthy Family or my Oil Corporation Millionaire Contributor Buddies - I swear you guys make it too easy - you ask for it!!!
Quit Complaining!

Originally posted by Sauron
Was it just a coincidence that Americans became involved
in so many wars under the jurisdiction of masonry?

1. Revolutionary War � provoked by the Boston Tea Party reported to be the activity of Masons. Benjamin Franklin, Paul Revere, George Washington, John Hancock, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry, and some of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were Masons. It has been authentically reported that all but two of the generals of the Revolutionary War were Masons.

This assessment is correct.

2. Civil War � Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant were Masons in waiting.

Abraham Lincoln had petitioned for membership in a Masonic Lodge in Chicago before he decided to run for president. He was elected to membership, but decided to wait until after the election to be initiated. On being elected President, he wrote a letter to the Lodge expressing his desire to become a Mason after he completed his duty as President, because only then would he have time to serve the Craft. Unfortunately, he was murdered before this could be don.

Ulysses S. Grant never petitioned a Masonic Lodge.

3. World War II � Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman were both Masons. It is long believed (known) that Roosevelt knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbor but did nothing to notify the military in Hawaii.

Both FDR and Truman were in fact Masons. There are no serious historians anywhere that believe that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attacks beforehand. Intelligence indicated that Japan was planning an attack on the Phillipines, but it was believed by the Roosevelt administration that Germany would be the first to strike the USA (the captured Nazi documents used as evidence at Nuremburg do in fact point out that Germany had intended an assault on the USA when the USSR had been conquered; these documents also show that neither Italy nor Germany knew about the Japanese attack on the US in advance, much less the Americans).

4. Korean War � Statement, dated June 27, 1950, by President Harry S. Truman (a Mason), announcing his order to send U.S. air and naval forces to help defend South Korea and explaining the rationale for his decision.

A Stalinist aggressor (North Korea) attacked a peaceful, democratic nation without provocation. Had Truman not acted, the entire Korean peninsula would now be under the chains of the Kim Jung Il Maoist-Stalinist tyranny.

5. Viet Nam War � The continuing political problems in Saigon, however, convinced the new president, Lyndon Baines Johnson (a Mason)

Lyndon B. Johnson was an Entered Apprentice (First Degree) only. This means that in his entire life, he attended only one Masonic meeting.

6. Persian Gulf War of 1991� Nov 20, 1990: 45 Democrats file suit in Washington to have President George H. Bush (a Mason) first seek Congressional approval of military operations - eventually thrown out. � January 16, 1991: The First US government statement of Operation Desert-Storm was made.

George H. W. Bush has never been a Freemason. Nor has his son, the current president.

7. With the foundation laid by President William Clinton �the United States was notified five years in advance by the Philippine Government that the events as they unfolded were going to take place� and completed under President George W. Bush ( both are members of the Skull and Bones Society � Yale University � NOTE: Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, present at President Bush's Address to the Nation on 20 September 2001, is a member of a kindred organization; the Cecil Rhodes Scholars of Oxford University, England )

Bill Clinton has never been a member of Skull and Bones, and the Rhodes Scholarship has nothing to do with Skull and Bones of course.

The rest of the original post has been intentionally ignored due to the fact that these claims have been debunked here previously so many times.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by TrueLies



Forbidden knowledge


*Weird.... My favorite number since I was a kid was 13*
Enjoy the read!

Enjoy it I did.

After reading the entire page, I couldn't help thinking that this was either a joke that took too long to get to the punchline, or that David Icke had some serious competition for King of the kookoos.

Arbys? Mcdonalds? DAIRY QUEEN?

The way that this joker ( fruitcake?) works his secret numerical code, he's got everyone and his brother involved in the masonic/jewish conspiracy to rule the world.

It actually would be amusing if not for the fact that people who are sincerely looking for the truth will find the site, and be swayed by the sheer volume of nonsense into believing it.

Oh well, at least it will make for an interesting few months on the conspiracies forum until our resident Masonic scholars can get a handle on it.

Prepare yourselves gentlemen..........

I don't know who this Robert Howard is. But, his website has something for everybody.
So, what's HIS agenda? I so distrust websites that give no clue as to the folks running them.

_____________
True Lies, I was beginning to wonder, this thread seemed out of character

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by The Axeman
MM, my good monkey, could you possibly expand on this? Perhaps divulge which chapter and verse the ceremony uses?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Inquire, and you shall be enlightened... The Inauguration of a President has become intensely symbolic, and unfortunately largely ignored...

memory.loc.gov...

Have fun.

OK, OK so I know this is off topic, but it seems as though our thread author has given it up... Anyways, MM, I would assume from the variety of verses used, that the President-Elect chooses that as well?

I will be interested to go through and read each of them... Thanks for the info as always!


[edit on 11/22/04 by The Axeman]

Listen to banker, Paul Warburg:

"We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (February 17, 1950, as he testified before the US Senate).


www.threeworldwars.com...


Why the Conspiracy is Unknown

The sheer magnitude and complex web of deceit surrounding the individuals and organizations involved in this conspiracy is mind boggling, even for the most astute among us. Most people react with disbelief and skepticism towards the topic, unaware that they have been conditioned (brainwashed) to react with skepticism by institutional and media influences. Author and de-programmer Fritz Springmeier (The Top 13 Illuminati Bloodlines) says that most people have built in "slides" that short circuit the mind's critical examination process when it comes to certain sensitive topics. "Slides", Springmeier reports, is a CIA term for a conditioned type of response which dead ends a person's thinking and terminates debate or examination of the topic at hand. For example, the mention of the word "conspiracy" often solicits a slide response with many people.

What most people believe to be "Public Opinion" is in reality carefully crafted and scripted propaganda designed to elicit a desired behavioral response from the public. Public opinion polls are really taken with the intent of gauging the public's acceptance of the New World Order's planned programs. A strong showing in the polls tells them that the programming is "taking", while a poor showing tells the NWO manipulators that they have to recast or "tweak" the programming until the desired response is achieved.

Go to website for more info...

The psychology of it all... Either there are many schitzophrenic's out of there believing this stuff, or we have many schitzophrenic's running the show.



Perhaps the best way to relate a brief history of the New World Order, would be to use the words of those who have been striving to make it real throughout the ages. You will be amazed at how far back this grand plan has extended, and how many similarities there are in early Century 21 compared to the 1990's, with two Presidents from the Bush family in power.
NWO timeline

[edit on 23-11-2004 by TrueLies]

With all this careful planning to incorporate all the numerical references, surely even the most uneducated mason would of included a 5 at least somewhere?

Originally posted by Bondi
With all this careful planning to incorporate all the numerical references, surely even the most uneducated mason would of included a 5 at least somewhere?

why not all the way and incorporate 69??

Sorry... But it is a valid number!

wait, but then it wouldn't be so dark and sinister... we must keep the plot dark...

But surely incorporating a 69, the chinese take away industry will be included in this dark plot, what with all chinese menus been defaulted with the notorious dish

69 - two can chew - (hot)

Originally posted by Bondi
But surely incorporating a 69, the chinese take away industry will be included in this dark plot, what with all chinese menus been defaulted with the notorious dish 69 - two can chew - (hot)

It's tu kan chu = the 69 dish aka the Mun Ching platter

My sincere apologies, my memory of chinese has always been a little vague

I will revise my findings and re-evalute the sacred menu scroll from chong wongs "Secret Garden", round the corner from the bank, past the pet shop, if you get to the supermarket you've gone too far.

Originally posted by Bondi
My sincere apologies, my memory of chinese has always been a little vague

That's fine, maybe this will help...

How did they get hold of the chinese enigma codes

reply to post by Mirthful Me

I know for a fact Bush is a member of the S&B which is an Illuminatist offshoot of Freemasonry. As for your other "facts" that supposedly disprove the information here they are all bogus or lies. I don't mean to say that your lying but your closed-minded attitude towards the fact that we are all either pawns or slaves is not only blinding you to the truth it's boring me and I would suggest you take a "Big Picture" look at what constitutes a freemason. I mean admittedly you say you don't know what a mason in waiting is how would you know who is or isn't a freemason. Most of the membership is highly secretive and many individuals who were masons or Illuminati "which are not necessarily masons" will never be known. So with that in mind who are you to say they were or weren't masons? The subject of this thread is trying to uncover their conspiracy which maybe not you, but most of the More Intelligent people across the globe are trying to do right now. If you don't believe you are either ignorant.... or just don't have YOUR facts straight. I say this because I know hundreds of people like you. I call them ostriches.
P.S The S&B is not exactly tied into freemasonry, more like an offshoot of the group that changed it from what it originally was. If you want to know the true roots of freemasonry do your own research. Be careful with that research as it can be dangerous. These people are not fuzzy and warm, nor are they "imaginary" as much as I wish the "debunkers" were right I've witnessed too much to believe that any longer. What people are saying about this is for the greater part true and if we don't wake up our country going bankrupt is just the tip of the iceberg.