Met Office: SIGNIFICANT WEATHER EVENT will hit UK in days as HUGE Atlantic storm ROARS in

reply to post by stumason

This government knew all along the rivers need to be dredged regularly. It stands to reason, but at the end of the day two wrongs don't make a right. They should have made that their first priority, not moan that no one else had bothered. Or not! Labour didn't make the savage cuts this government has. Cameron and his chums are about as interested in green issues as the developer's are when they are building on the flood plains and pulling down orchards.
You don't never heard Cameron on the news trying to do something about it. No, NEVER!, because its all about money.
We are damn lucky this weather hasn't effected our nuclear power stations, that this government insist is better in private/foreign hands. Don't tell me this government cares. He made fun of the fact boris wanted to build an floating airport on the Thames, yet he has let the idiot spend millions of pound trying. Well, you are right about the weather. We can all agree on that. Our first priority is vaccinating everyone for water born diseases. Terrible situation and money should be no object. We shall see.



hx

reply to post by happinness


I think you going about the spending cuts is barking up the wrong tree. Expert advice was that dredging wasn't required, so it was never in the budget anyway, so the cuts have had no bearing. In fact, spending on flood defences hasn't really changed that much since 2010. The budget for flood defences prior to this winter was to be around £2.1 Billion for the next 4 years, compared to the previous 4 years spending of £2.36 Billion - the Government have already pledged a further few hundred on top of that and I think we'll see even more being thrown in.

reply to post by stumason


Where did the expert advise come from? The environment agency did what they were told and make cuts as instructed. They are meant to be the experts, so why didn't they speak up? hx

reply to post by happinness


The Environment Agency employs many people trained in the necessary fields, the same as any other Agency or department. These include people regarded as expert in their field, so Dr's, PHd's and the like.

The advice not to dredge, or specifically that there is no need to dredge, has been received over the course of the past two decades. It isn't something that has only cropped up in the last few years since 2010, so I think your focus on the cuts - not that they were that severe and have no been effectively reversed with Government pledges of cash - is misplaced and possibly politically motivated.

As I said earlier, the Governments planned spending for the next 4 years wasn't that much different for the previous 4 years.

• 2007-08 £500 Million
  
• 2008-09 £568 million
  
• 2009-10 £633 Million
  
• 2010-11 £670 Million
  
• 2011-12 £573 Million
  
• 2012-13 £576 Million
  
• 2013-14 £577 Million
  
• 2014-15 £615 Million
  

Here be a link to a PDF

As you can see, while it has fluctuated between a minimum of £500 million (under Labour) and £670 million (under the current Government) it hasn't really been "savagely cut" like you are claiming.

reply to post by stumason


I accept that running these dredgers, like a car isn't cheap and with the cost of fuel exasperates the cost hasn't gone up in real terms,, so just running over those figures doesn't really add up. If anything it shows how stingy the government have been.


hx

reply to post by happinness


Half a billion a year is not really stingey and remember, this is based on advice received by "experts" about what was needed.

Also, bear in mind that in the grand scheme of things, we've done quite well. In other countries, take Brazil at the end of 2013, they had flood waters hit around the same sort of height as we did, yet had hundreds killed and cities underwater which necessitated an international relief effort. This is a country that is supposedly one of the next super-powers, lives with heavy rainfall all the time and has the worlds largest river basin. yet were still unprepared.

In the UK, we've had no-one killed by the flooding directly and, for the most part, flood defences have held up across most of the country even if they have been strained. We've had it so good for so long, we lose perspective I think.

Alternatively, compare it to the 1928 flooding of London - 14 killed then and the water didn't get that high. After the '58 flooding, the Barrier was built and all over the country, flood defences exist that many simply are not aware of and protect them well enough.

reply to post by stumason


Of course half a billion is not enough. We are surrounded by the stuff. When this government plc came into power the first thing they should have done is a risk assessment. Oh noo, there was a scramble to make cuts and they did!!
Where are all these experts that told them not to worry about it? There should be another public enquiry.
As for comparing us with other countries, it is just luck more than judgement!! We are sitting on a bed of chalk, mud, clay and limestone. The sink holes are more frequent and landslides. We have no where to run or swim for that matter.
The government should get their thinking caps on, because if we do have a summer and a hot one at that, there are going to be a lot of sick people in this country. Locally where I live the government spending cuts stopped the spraying of the mosquito/gnat infested area's in my area. Just a matter of time before some weird virus does the rounds. Nope, I am sorry Stumason, Cameron is an economist, not a Prime minister and not a very good one at that!


hx

happinness
Of course half a billion is not enough. We are surrounded by the stuff.

And yet, it has sufficed for many a decade with this year being the excption. You really should change your username to Captain Hingsight!

happinness
When this government plc came into power the first thing they should have done is a risk assessment. Oh noo, there was a scramble to make cuts and they did!!

Why should they? That sort of thing is done continually at the EA - it isn't the Governments job. Even if it was, what reasons would they have to conduct a "risk assessment" given that this year is, so far, the exception and nothing like it has happened for decades. Again, you're wilfully applying hindsight to judge how others have acted without the information we are privy to now.

happinness
Where are all these experts that told them not to worry about it? There should be another public enquiry.

Why? In the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of flood defences have done their jobs. Why go on a witch hunt in the EA for someone to "blame" when there is no evidence to suggest they had any inkling this would happen. It'll only put off decent people working for the EA in future if they risk getting lynched for making a mistake. What you're proposing is very much like the poor Italian scientists prosecuted for failing to predict an earthquake

happinness
As for comparing us with other countries, it is just luck more than judgement!!

How so? The response has been far better than what we see the world over. Again, it seems you're just using this as an excuse to further a political agenda. You sound like the people who complained about the Government response and said they got no info, when the EA has been pumping out warnings for weeks, it's just they never paid any attention to them until it was too late and now they want someone to blame.

happinness
We are sitting on a bed of chalk, mud, clay and limestone. The sink holes are more frequent and landslides. We have no where to run or swim for that matter.

And the Government is to blame for the geology, how? What do you suggest we do, as a nation, about the risk of sink holes or landslides? If you know of a way to predict them, then do so, because no one else can do it with any certainty.

happinness
The government should get their thinking caps on, because if we do have a summer and a hot one at that, there are going to be a lot of sick people in this country.

They are and have been since prior to this problem. Why would people get sick?

happinness
Locally where I live the government spending cuts stopped the spraying of the mosquito/gnat infested area's in my area.

Pest control is the responsibility of the local council and water firms - not central Government - and plenty of local authorities continue to deal with mosquito's - not that our mosquito's carry any serious diseases. It's not like we have a malaria problem....

happinness
Just a matter of time before some weird virus does the rounds.

That much can be said of any moment in time and has nothing to do with flooding.

happinness
Nope, I am sorry Stumason, Cameron is an economist, not a Prime minister and not a very good one at that!

In your opinion - but many others think otherwise. The economy is doing well, contrary to the doom and gloom of the Two Ed's, it has been diversified away from financials, exports are climbing quarter on quarter. The Government has done precisely what they were elected to do - sort out the mess the last lot left.

There is no way anyone could have predicted the Winter we had - if I was a betting man, I would have assumed it would be like the previous 3 or 4 and we'd be under snow, but it changed completely and we had lots of windy, wet weather. I'd bet the EA would love to be like you and to have known exactly what to do in advance.....

happinness Locally where I live the government spending cuts stopped the spraying of the mosquito/gnat infested area's in my area.

I wasn't aware that they were a problem or that there had ever been any spraying to kill them in this country?

We elliminated mosquitos by draining the wetlands in which they bred, 100s of years ago, gnats to my knowledge have never been a problem (they don't bite do they?) ..... though midges are a whole different matter ......


The main reason for the floods IMO has been frequent winter rainfall causing rivers to flood as they always have done for millions of years ...... and stupid humans building homes in places where rivers have always flooded for millions of years. The more building you have on floodplains, the more the water spreads to places just outside floodplains.

Oddly, here in Evesham (epicenter of the July 2007 floods, which were caused by very very exceptional rainfall - nearly as much as we've seen here all year so far falling in just one day - occurring after a long sequence of wetter than average weeks which saw more rain in May and June than we've seen here all winter ) we've seen no worse floods than we expect every year. But our floodplain is covered by parks and sports fields, not millionaire's mansions.

As far as I can see, whether there were cuts or not, somebody did their job or not is totally moot....the whole debacle is going to cost this country not just the government, councils, agencies, insurance companies, businesses and us the tax payer a whole lot more now....and I'm not just talking about the monetary expense.

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by angelchemuel


On the flip side - as I alluded to earlier in the thread - it could actually be an economic boom. If the Government puts it's money where it's mouth is, we could use this as a springboard (excuse?) for widespread infrastructure investment which has been sorely needed, floods or not. With spending comes jobs.... We could even take the lead in "green tech" as we come up with ways to deal with the problems climate change brings.

I dont see what everyone moaning about?

According to certain Americans on here everything fine and the weathers perfect for this time of year and there no problem with extreme weather in the world.

/Sarcasm

reply to post by stumason


Yeah...but we know that ain't gonna happen in a month of Sundays Stu.

We'll have to get past all the disease and stuff first, and land, even when drained, might not be fit to grow anything on. The miles and miles of roads that will need repairing just to get deliveries through, all the small private garages in small rural areas who don't have the finance to get their tanks cleaned out....the list goes on.....and we're not out of the woods yet, there's more wet weather to come....and us Jo Bloggs public will be footing the bill.....that's the bottom line, and we're not a bottomless pit.

Rainbows
Jane

angelchemuel
reply to post by stumason

 

Yeah...but we know that ain't gonna happen in a month of Sundays Stu.

You say that, but then you say this:

angelchemuel
We'll have to get past all the disease and stuff first, and land, even when drained, might not be fit to grow anything on. The miles and miles of roads that will need repairing just to get deliveries through, all the small private garages in small rural areas who don't have the finance to get their tanks cleaned out

Which is precisely what I meant. The Government has already said "money is no object" with regards to the cleanup and they have been leaning on insurers already to pay up. Not to mention the hundreds of millions already earmarked for the railways down in the SW after the Dawlish line got severed.

Although I am unsure what you mean by disease or that the land will not be usable? What comes with flood water? Lots of sediment (good for soil - very nourishing) and, occasionally, sewage which again is quite good for growing although not great for carpets. Historically, flooding was an integral and vital part of farming - it reinvigorates the ground.

angelchemuel
....the list goes on.....and we're not out of the woods yet, there's more wet weather to come....and us Jo Bloggs public will be footing the bill.....that's the bottom line, and we're not a bottomless pit.

Rainbows
Jane

Aye, we will always pay, either through the Government or through the insurers, but why is that of any relevance? Who else do you think would pay for it?

reply to post by stumason


Please don't start another fight Stu, I'm only voicing the way I see it....time will tell which of us was closer to the mark....like I said, Joe Bloggs is not a bottomless pit.

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by angelchemuel


Starting a fight? Just debating the points is all but if you see that as "starting a fight" then I'm sorry, but this is how discussions happen. It wouldn't be much fun, or even have a point, if we all agreed

Yes, time may well tell, but so far it seems everything that can be done, is being done.

crazyewok
I dont see what everyone moaning about?

According to certain Americans on here everything fine and the weathers perfect for this time of year and there no problem with extreme weather in the world.

/Sarcasm

Yes that's because the real end-of-the-world issue is Obamacare!

Didn't you know? Obamacare is going to destroy America and then destroy the entire world!

reply to post by AndyMayhew


I am in the Thames gateway and there are areas that come September are inundated with gnats. I have heard many scare stories of children getting stung and infected by gnat bites. I have seen some nasty bites on people too. Its all very well having the opinion its not the governments fault, but it is. They are meant to be leading us .... then lead!. Consult the experts, do risk assessments, get the environment and the greens together. Kick the energy companies up the arse! Advise local councils, bring people together, instead of blaming everyone else and the weather!
Where I am all the greedy farmers sold their land to the developers and the government sat back and watched. What makes it worse is that underneath are underground springs. It was not so long ago Cameron and his side kick were making me cringe sucking up to the Chinese!
In fact I was nearly sick. Cameron has more face than Fu Man Choo!! Wonder how much money they wasted of tax payers money for that visit? I bet they didn't take them any presents as a good will gesture?? Plus this bloody new high speed rail link! for who? That will do good for the environment won't it? Is it to bring jobs and prosperity to benefits street? lol Think about it!!

I could go on, but I cant be bothered. You cant argue with the ignorant.
Stay safe and well Andy ... I may go off on a tangent sometimes, but I mean well.

hx

Now we can't bury our dead in these water logged areas.....for how long? Will they start demanding that we cremate our relatives even if it goes against the deceased wishes?

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by crazyewok


heh ok .. although i follow these threads close, daily i dont' speak much and this is my 2nd account. i couldn't recover the pass for my 1st. but in any event i reside now in turkey and this is breaking the record for the hottest feb. its all 15 and up from now on, seemingly. i've seen a forcast of 20celcius in some regions. so i'm not sure what to do this in the grand scheme of things but winter came and left in a snap.

just giving you guys my 2 cents on the breaking weather patterns this side of the country.