US teeters towards debt default, cash could run dry by end of Feb.. this stuff never stops !

The debt ceiling will never stop growing and we the US will keep increasing as long as it can back its debt by the "good faith and trust of the American government", meaning the Fed feeds the IMF that in return lend money to most developing countries in the world with interest, plus US oil is as good as gold.

The government and the corporate dictatorship has been drilling that US is in debt and about to crash, is nothing but scaremongering, why? because like many people around and until the results of the 2008 crash scam bailouts nothing really happen, we the people and tax payers got screwed up, while Walls street and the super rich thrive and the government still keeps its waste and abuse, Get it.

So it seems that debt ceiling and national debt no longer matter in the complicate Ponzi scheme that is the US economy.

reply to post by TrueBrit


The flaw in your logic is assuming that they're trying to fix the system, when the system is already fixed.

It's obvious that there is no real debt limit. That is why it keeps going up and up and up. All the numbers are for is to keep everyone in check to make it look like if we don't act NOW everything will come crashing down. they just love to watch us sweat!

If you need to get a loan you are already bust.

reply to post by 727Sky


Rather than have these mini-crisis every couple of months concerning the debt limit, wouldn't it be smarter to just remove the cap altogether? That way, they can spend us all into oblivion and when the revolution comes, they know what they did and why they are being hung for treason? They are going to drive as many countries and colonies bankrupt as they possibly can in order to bring in the new world currency and all the fear driven BS they create with us all hitting the "iceberg" over and over again is simply getting stupid. I think many of us are becoming callous in regards to this crap, I know I am. Git 'er done, so we can move on to phase II and take these bastards head-on.

The re-running of the same old crisis over again is getting old and tired, it's like too many "Rocky" sequels.

Cheers - Dave

If these numbers are anything close to the truth, we're not really close to default. It'll be the same as last year, and the year before, and they year before that.

Perspective is Key!!



WorldDebtClocks

Nationalize the Federal Reserve, then we can erase all debt. We just need someone with the balls big enough to do this.

buster2010
Let it crash. Our system was designed to crash from the day it started better for it to happen now instead of letting it keep building up. If our system has to be run on a credit card then it is time to change our system.

Careful what you wish for.

We're all good... At least until the end of the government's fiscal year 2015. IMO

Then maybe people will see what a real crash/collapse is first hand. If you think you are prepared for that, you really need to think again. Then again, maybe nothing bad will happen, and we will find that we can just keep printing money and bailing out the elite to keep things good forever for everyone...

Only one way to find out for sure....

amfirst1
Nationalize the Federal Reserve, then we can erase all debt. We just need someone with the balls big enough to do this.

Blow up the Federal Reserve and we can all be debt free! That would have worked before everything became electronic. Debt = Slavery and that's what the Zionist Jews created! Lots of Slavery!

They created all the wars and created more debt!

Zionist Jews are the scourge of Humanity! They don't care about people. They care for Money. Wealth and Power! It's time the people fought for themselves and their race and wiped the Zionist Jews off the map!

qwerty12345
Our governments are corrupt. Anyone know where we can find the Rothschild family?

Deal me in!
I'll see your Rothschild and raise you the other gazillionaires...

Memorandum from MERIKA:
Dear Top 1%,
We are pleased to introduce to you the lovely $16.7 Trillion Debt.
Please crash into each other and cancel each other out.

Sincerely,
US


Merika!

727Sky
This is from RT about the new debt limit.. This stuff just seems to never end... How can any country allow itself so much debt much less plan on paying the debt off... When/how will it end ?

Do you know why it never ends? It's because congress is dysfunctional. They're not capable of coming up with a responsible solution like raising the debt limit enough to last a few years, and addressing deficit spending. Instead they can authorize spending for a couple months and then have it come up again, so that they get to have a big public fight.

Our debt really isn't that bad especially when compared to the rest of the world, our inability to handle it responsibly is. This is the whole reason we got a downgrade in the past... investors are scared of the way we're unable to handle this stuff. The amount has never been in question.

The fact that we even have a debt ceiling is in and of itself ridiculous and is a direct result of congress being lazy and failing the American people. Like the rest of the world, we should not have a debt ceiling.

reply to post by ZeussusZ


Well as a general notion it is so because the system is unfair and corrupt. In a perfect world the only reason you get a loan is to overreach into something that repays more than the cost of the credit.

Looking into the real world you rarely see a move like that especially using public money and using credit based in "future revenue". We can even extrapolate the same methodology to student loans, in the present situation the future seems bleak for even a fair investment in education (if that ever existed).

Most credit systems today are predatory so you wording of the status quo is correct...

reply to post by 727Sky


Pardon my lack of knowledge in finance, but where does all the borrowed money come from, what is the interest rate on the loans, who guarantees them, how much debt is there so far, and how and when is it all going to be paid off?

The Amerikan Debt Bomb is ticking.
Once it hits zero, the SWHTF.

Flyinghaggis
reply to post by 727Sky

 

Pardon my lack of knowledge in finance, but where does all the borrowed money come from, what is the interest rate on the loans, who guarantees them, how much debt is there so far, and how and when is it all going to be paid off?

Borrowed money comes from the federal reserve and other banks in the form of bonds. These are used to fund virtually every public works project in the past 500 years, basically since fractional reserve banking became a thing. Schools, roads, power plants, parks, and anything else. A bond is essentially a debt note, it says it's worth a certain amount... we'll say $1 million. People are then paid with these debt notes that can be exchanged for services. Your $5 bill in your pocket is a claim to $5 of debt.

The interest rate on a bond varies, since 2008 interest rates have been at record lows in order to keep liquidity. Large banks had access to loans at 0.001% interest for the better part of 3 years, while ordinary citizens have been able to get home loans at 3%. It's a bit higher now, as they're trying to taper things back to a normal rate. To do so without jolting the economy is going to take decades however. Different bonds yield different returns based on investor confidence and need. Detroit Municipal Bonds for example are junk bond status meaning they pay very high interest. However because of their junk status you're unlikely to be repaid.

Bonds are guaranteed by the person issuing them. In the case of US Treasury Bonds they're backed by the US Printing Press (really more of a computer these days), while a city will back them with tax revenues. Repayments on the bonds must be made in order to retain creditworthiness. Bonds are funded by private investors (and sometimes foreign governments) and all investors want to see a slow steady increase of debt, because it means there will be a future need for more investing. Ceasing to produce debt makes investors panic.

How much debt there is, is a broader question than the one I think you intended to ask. Each and every dollar created is created and loaned at interest based on the fractional reserve principal. This means that when there are no dollars in the system there is 0 interest. If you create $1000 and loan it out with a 0.1% interest rate however, there is now $1001 in debt, or $1 that can never be paid back. If the entire monetary supply were seized and given to the banks, it wouldn't cover the principal+interest. So the correct answer to your question is the M3 money supply+all interest. The M3 supply ceased being tracked in 2006 happens to no longer be officially tracked, the best estimate I can find states that there's 17.5 trillion in the M3 supply which would give you a total federal reserve debt of about $17.8 trillion. Although more currency than this is actually in circulation... it's virtually impossible to give a complete total.

Something tells me however that that isn't the question you were asking. I think you were actually asking about US government debt which currently sits somewhere between 16.5 and 17.5 trillion, the exact amount is unknown because of congress's accounting tricks to prolong debt ceiling debates. This is debt that is owed by the US Federal Government. State and local governments also carry debt as do individuals.

As for when it will be paid off, that's a tricky question and requires a longer answer. At an individual level it's good to be debt free, then you don't pay interest, have more money in your pocket, a better credit score, and all the rest. State and local governments aren't much different from individuals they have to manage debt and keep it under control. In some cases this hasn't happened and we've had a city or state declare bankruptcy. Everything changes at a national level however because money starts to mean something different. When you control the creation of your own money, a concept like debt takes on a completely different meaning, the presence of debt is completely voluntary, at any time a country would be free to inflate their own currency (create more money) and pay off it's debt in full, because it's a sovereign entity a nation can also simply say they don't recognize a debt and cancel it without paying it off. There are no consequences to this, not even a hit to a credit rating.

Because of this, debt as I said takes on a new meaning, instead of representing money owed, debt represents faith in a currency. Because there are so many people in the world and commodities are worth so little relatively, there is not enough oil, gems, and precious metals in the world to back everyone's currency (just the USD alone would require a stockpile of 1/2 of the worlds oil reserves and all precious metals) which means fiat currency must be used. The problem however is that unrestrained printing of fiat currency makes it worthless because there is no backing. For this reason (and also as a more workable solution to war than MAD) the system of monetizing debt was developed. What this basically means is that everyone buys everyone elses debt... using debt as a medium of exchange.

At this point I should mention I need to work off of memory from looking this stuff up in the past... the inane china owning us debt hype makes googling for actual numbers here quite difficult so I might be slightly off. The USD for example is backed partially by Federal Reserve debt, but it also partially backed by Chinese debt, and Japanese debt, and UK debt, and France debt, and a whole multitude of other countries. This means that if one of those countries cancels out our debt in response to say a war declaration it will cause the USD to devalue. This also means however that many nations have faith in our currency as being strong and stable, because they're buying our debt to back their own currency. This is why for example it's actually a good thing that Japan and China each own a trillion dollars worth of US debt. It means they're very confident in our currency and are invested in our economy doing well. Similarly this is why we own about $750 billion in Chinese debt (note: as a debt:GDP ratio we own more Chinese debt than they own of US debt which contrary to what you read actually makes us the creditor in this relationship... not the debtor), it creates a system where each nations currency is backed by everyone elses so that while it's still technically fiat (none of these debt promises are backed by anything physical) there is a virtual backing.

Now what this means is that the debt cannot be paid off. Instead it needs to be expanded. Keep this in mind whenever you hear a politician talking about paying down the debt. It's the mark of a person who is either lying to you or ignorant of the financial situation they're about to take control of. No politicians want to actually explain this to people though because it's bad politically to tell someone they're wrong... and most of them in congress don't understand what I just wrote anyways even though they're most in the position to know. If we were to pay off the debt we would shrink the money supply resulting in a huge economic contraction while at the same time reducing foreign confidence in our currency.

Hopefully this answered some questions.

Edit - Messed up some millions/billions/trillions.

The sooner people realize that the idea of infinite growth requires infinite debt, the better off everyone will be.

The system will fail. It is inherent in its design. It's only a question of how far will the system go before someone stops the music? Until then, it is nearly certain the "debt ceiling" will continue to be raised. The time to pay attention is when they fail to do so, and the deadline passes. Before then, it is a game of brinkmanship.

Flyinghaggis
reply to post by 727Sky

 

Pardon my lack of knowledge in finance, but where does all the borrowed money come from, what is the interest rate on the loans, who guarantees them, how much debt is there so far, and how and when is it all going to be paid off?

Best set of questions ever about the funny money. Give that airborne steamin' lunch a bump! After we unhooked from reality with this fiat system, the only elbow room the Fed gets is based on the "..full faith and credit of the United States." We're the collateral.

After reading everyone's posts, I believe if a majority of the country knew like ATS what this Ponzi scheme actually was based on, it should have collapsed on Christmas 1913 and the people who voted for it dragged out and summarily hung by the tender vittles until they cheered up.

I also would have written the City of London (and more specifically the R-family) if they wanted a war they should come on out with a rifle or two... I have very acommodating and motivated friends and relatives to join us.

Guess they will default on tax returns.

Good luck getting those. They will withhold the TAX returns for some reason. Just watch

The whole problem is Double-Damned.

The government(s) need to borrow more in order to pay off the old due debts.

Then they perpetually need more to support the binge spending above their revenues.

The three "P" principals come into play....

Peter-Paul-Ponzi endless loop.

It all goes way back to the original merchant-banker-money exchanger tricks.

I like the term government debt.

It hides whats really happening.

The corporate & banking world continue to rake in hundreds of billions of dollars a year through dodgy practices, while the American government debt continues to grow hundreds of billions of dollars a year (co-incidence?). This is only allowed to happen because the government promises the people will pay off this debt in the years ahead.

Don't you get it? your being mortgaged so the richer can be richer and all your getting out of it is higher costs of living, higher unemployment and crumbling infrastructure.

Tell me again why America is the best country in the world and its people are so damn patriotic?