"Science Guy’ Bill Nye vs. Creationist Ken Ham: Who Will Win the Big Debate?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

You do realize that wildtimes thinks people like your girlfriend are the source of most the world's pain through all history?

Oooo Ouch. FOUL!!! Yellow flag on the field and a loud whistle right next to your ear canal!!!

You and I have barely ever, EVER, interacted - in fact, I think your Bwahahaha remark about how I don't know anything was maybe the first or second time????

Even if I do think that - it's not up to you to act as my mouthpiece. Anyway, I'm right.

And Akragon knows my position quite well. Dry up.


The debate was a huge embarrassment for intelligent people - it was like a horrible "Mad TV" skit that went on and on.
It's attitudes like yours - attempting to make me the bad guy - that are wrecking our nation's education system, and imprisoning the minds of children.

Read the awesome letter from the Secular Coalition of Australia above to see just how the Educated world sees you and Ham.

caterpillage
Man those atheists sure do hate the god talk, allmost with a religious passion. It seems these days the most coveted religion is the one that claims it isn't!

Either way, I'm good, I believe what I believe and I don't need blowhard assbags like Nye or that other guy speaking for me.

Seriously, why not just keep your mind open?

The whole equating evolution or atheism thing as a being religious has been played out and seen a hundred times here. We are well aware of the lastest attempts at propaganda coming from the Christian sites.

If god wanted Christians to spread the religion, he should of made them better salesmen.

interupt42
Besides factual provable evidence Bill Nye provided , when Ham admitted that nothing would ever change his mind in reference to creationsim he lost all credibility.

In other words he is not looking for the truth but rather in the pursuit of keeping his reality from collapsing even if its virtual.

Well done Mr. Nye.

And this is the difference between religious-minded people and open-minded people.

Those who hold a belief in something that cannot be fully proven are not looking for the truth. They are looking for more evidence to bolster their beliefs. When such evidence proves to be contrary or opposite to what they are searching for, it is swept under the rug and dismissed without so much as a thought.

Now, on the other hand, most of those who hold a belief in what evidence has shown to be true, both physical, scientific and historical, are more than willing to accept new information into their thinking, particularly when that evidence disproves a previously held opinion.

Mr. Nye wasn't trying to win an argument last night. He was trying to plant the seed of doubt in the minds of those who are curious, and water that seed in the minds of those who are suspicious.

22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution

A writer at buzzfeed asked 22 self identifying creationists at the debate to write a question to the other side. Some are cringe worthy...

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO


That first picture is a killer. A misspelt word and the simplest answer ever: "Because the Earth revolves, you cretin."

reply to post by Akragon


I think the condescending way you speak about those who have faith is relevant to the topic. As well as very annoying to read.

reply to post by wildtimes


Actually I was laughing at your pathetic understanding of the laws of physics and how they intersect with biology and evolutionary theory.

What I gather from the letter is that you want to commit acts of violence against others who disagree or challenge your opinion.

Read the awesome letter from the Secular Coalition of Australia above to see just how the Educated world sees you and Ham.

And if you could manage to kick him in the shins and tell him and his ilk to leave our kids alone, Bill – we’d owe you one.

Where am I preaching to the children?

Oh that is right I just made a thread siting actual studies from actual reputable academic institutions that actually dared to challenge presumptions made by evolutionary theorists.

Then a whole lot of folks come in preaching like this Ken Ham fellow that I and these Max Planck associates don't know anything about evolution or they wouldn't be challenging the current model.

Yeah . . . sure buddy . . . I am the one acting like Ken Ham for siting actual studies and linking to peer reviewed studies published in scientific journals while the rest of you lot spout your rhetoric and run because you can't argue with the actual science being presented.

So go ahead and pretend you know better and continue thinking that I ever supported Ken Ham if it makes you feel better.

If you want to come challenge actual scientifically established results then I am more than willing to engage.

Who knows maybe you will actually learn something instead of just repeating your rhetoric like a brainwashed zombie.

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

If you want to come challenge actual scientifically established results then I am more than willing to engage.

Who knows maybe you will actually learn something instead of just repeating your rhetoric like a brainwashed zombie.

Erm, no thank you . Anyone who calls me a 'brainwashed zombie' and mocked my short list of universal elemental forces doesn't deserve my attention or respect.

I didn't say the letter was to you! Good grief, man, do you wake up in a foul mood EVERY day?

Like I said, I've barely interacted with you, but I noticed your aggression and insulting demeanor in one of the the recent threads about school curricula - and your attitude is quite off-putting. You'd make a lousy teacher. I never said I know much about physics - and having acheived a Master's degree with honors, I'm perfectly aware of the 'value' of peer-reviewed journals. I access them frequently; doesn't mean they know everything.

And I don't even know what you are talking about except that you chose to respond to my list of elemental forces with laughter and disdain. And then LATER claimed you knew what I think about Akragon's girlfriend's people. Bugger off. You're a trouble-maker.

WilsonWilson
reply to post by Akragon

 

I think the condescending way you speak about those who have faith is relevant to the topic. As well as very annoying to read.

I have absolutely no issues with anyone who has faith in God...

I do however have serious issues with people who believe in things that are simply not true...

And I honestly couldn't care less if I annoy you...

I do tend to annoy people who willingly choose to be blind...

Oh well...

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

You are doing a pretty good job of looking the fool yourself. I'd explain why, but I know you really don't care.

Exactly! About time someone on here understands my thinking! Evolution is a joke that most don't understand.....Where did that monkey come from that we "evolved" from? Oh, the tiny little particle that performed a miracle (not by god) to advance into an intelligent life form (without god).....Sure, I sound like a fool

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO


It is no surprise that some of questions is the same misconception about science we encounter on ATS quite often. For example, misconception of the meaning behind word 'theory' in science.

While in everyday language theory means hypothesis, in science its actually proven model, something that is supported by evidence.

Sometimes I really wonder what kind of brainwashing is required to make someone doubt clear facts, for example evidence of some trees being even older then supposed earth age.

Thank you for sharing those. Some are so .... can't find word that best describes them...

Chrisfishenstein

 

Exactly! About time someone on here understands my thinking! Evolution is a joke that most don't understand.....Where did that monkey come from that we "evolved" from? Oh, the tiny little particle that performed a miracle (not by god) to advance into an intelligent life form (without god).....Sure, I sound like a fool

You should watch following video, and after that we can talk about evolution, abiogenesis etc. Without it, there is no point to talk at all. (If I managed to live trough 2.5 hours of Ken's call for 'the book', you should not have problems with a hour and half video, right?)



Once done, let us know, and ask what part you did not get. I am sure that some of us here will be able to help.

wildtimes
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Erm, no thank you . Anyone who calls me a 'brainwashed zombie' and mocked my short list of universal elemental forces doesn't deserve my attention or respect.

I was not mocking the forces, I was laughing at you providing a short list of forces as evidence for why you believe something. For someone with a masters degree you should know better.

I didn't say the letter was to you! Good grief, man, do you wake up in a foul mood EVERY day?

Oh really? The context of your reply indicates otherwise;

Read the awesome letter from the Secular Coalition of Australia above to see just how the Educated world sees you and Ham.

So clearly the letter was not written to me (obvious) but you are reinforcing the message put forth in my direction . . .

Like I said, I've barely interacted with you, but I noticed your aggression and insulting demeanor in one of the the recent threads about school curricula - and your attitude is quite off-putting. You'd make a lousy teacher. I never said I know much about physics - and having acheived a Master's degree with honors, I'm perfectly aware of the 'value' of peer-reviewed journals. I access them frequently; doesn't mean they know everything.

And I don't even know what you are talking about except that you chose to respond to my list of elemental forces with laughter and disdain. And then LATER claimed you knew what I think about Akragon's girlfriend's people. Bugger off. You're a trouble-maker.

edit on 2/5/14 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

You come to this site and spout off about "the science!" "the science!" and try and use it to demonize a group of the population while making absurd accusations which you rarely back up with actual evidence.

You persecute others for reasons you can hardly justify with evidence so I engage in the same behavior towards you based on your post history.

You can cry about it being "off-putting" all you want and claim I would be a bad teacher blah blah yada yada. I am in the top 10 percentile at a university leading the world in many areas of research (from programs I am actually involved in and know others involved in) and seeing you come in here and run your mouth as if you actually know or have even heard the opinions of people in the field is disgusting to me.

You put your own opinion in other people's mouths and present it as though it actually is in line with what real scientists think when it is anything but.

You don't know jack- about the science you are trying to use to call other people stupid or ignorant or wrong. It is incredibly annoying watching this crap go on day after day because you can not handle the fact that others disagree with you.

-FBB

Chrisfishenstein

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

You are doing a pretty good job of looking the fool yourself. I'd explain why, but I know you really don't care.

Exactly! About time someone on here understands my thinking! Evolution is a joke that most don't understand.....Where did that monkey come from that we "evolved" from? Oh, the tiny little particle that performed a miracle (not by god) to advance into an intelligent life form (without god).....Sure, I sound like a fool

The foolishness continues. When you decide to stop comically oversimplifying evolution, I'll explain why you are wrong on both of your posts (here's a teaser: we didn't evolve from monkeys).

Chrisfishenstein

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

You are doing a pretty good job of looking the fool yourself. I'd explain why, but I know you really don't care.

Exactly! About time someone on here understands my thinking! Evolution is a joke that most don't understand.....Where did that monkey come from that we "evolved" from? Oh, the tiny little particle that performed a miracle (not by god) to advance into an intelligent life form (without god).....Sure, I sound like a fool

1 ignorant comment, followed by another?

Man, you are are on a roll.

I would say that comment is like having the scientific mind of a Grade 5 student but that would be offensive to grade 5s because they know why Monkeys are still here.

Here is a dumbed down version....

If Modern Americans are originally British, why are there modern British still around? Hint, its a branched off culture.

I'll just give you the answer before you make a 3rd ignorant comment.... British and Americans shared the same ancestor.

I watched the first half last night and will finish it up tonight. Thought that Ken Ham, who I hadn't heard before, was very well informed and a great speaker. I'm not a young earth creationist, however. I did think that Bill Nye, at least in the beginning, did a good job too, except that some of his jokes and lines seemed to fall flat with the audience? I like this debate, because they twisted the premise and the question a bit. Made for a better conversation all around. Editing to add, that although NOT dumbed down to the audience, I thought both gentlemen and especially Mr. Nye, gave us the information in an easy to digest and understand format and that it wasn't the same old retorts that you usually see on these debates.

I expected a lot from it... but sadly is the same crap.

-Person A makes a extravagant claim, supports it by The Book.

- Person B try to answers why everything said by person A and that it doesn't make sense, The answers just flies by the person A. Does not reply to the rebuttal but starts another extravagant claim.

- 50% audience don't have a clue of what he tried to explain, or it was too difficult. But they laugh at some snipe joke from Person A.

- Each side think they won and walk away.

Science guy vs religion

Once a upon a time, Albert Einstein said:



I don't know what to believe and who trust but I have questions, questions need to be answered!

Chrisfishenstein

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

You are doing a pretty good job of looking the fool yourself. I'd explain why, but I know you really don't care.

Exactly! About time someone on here understands my thinking! Evolution is a joke that most don't understand.....Where did that monkey come from that we "evolved" from? Oh, the tiny little particle that performed a miracle (not by god) to advance into an intelligent life form (without god).....Sure, I sound like a fool

(Facepalm) We share a common ancestor with that monkey. Gross oversimplification is only understandable if you have totally failed to comprehend the theory. That or you don't want to understand it.

reply to post by mekhanics



I guess that you are not aware that Einstein has never said such a thing.

Please follow this link for bellow video (link should go to correct time @ 8:15 ) where you can find Einstein quote on God and religion.




Science and religion don't mix very well. Interesting is that even educated priests agree to that. There is no science in scriptures for simple reason, when those were written, there was no science. (Follow second video in opening post, quotes from Father George about science and religion.)

Bill Nye vs Ken Ham. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I just question the necessity.

I was born into a catholic family. I now hold atheistic views.

I do not think the bible was meant to be a literal sense of history. Rather, a guide, for the future. Be kind and love. This will bring you happiness. (minus the worship - which I understand as to worship the ideals, rather than the God or Jesus.)

In the same sense, I raise my children, on a smaller scale and over simplified:

"If you are bad, you get punished. If you are good, you get rewarded. Treat everyone, the way you would like to be treated". I could tell a 1000 stories on how this has been accomplished by many great and not so great men. I could associate these stories into a level, that their limited, learning minds could decipher. Let them know, they will always have a place in my heart. Does this count as forgiveness? This isn't a divine message. Nor is it to make them worship me. It is simply to control the outcome of my child's transformation into adulthood, without leaving chaos at every turn. Their outcome is a reflection of my guidance. I post a few general rules to live by and voila.

If my kids argued over how to decipher my message, what meaning it might have and started killing others who didn't follow my rules or believe what I believed, then the message is lost and I'm the cause.

The message is lost. Whoever it came from.

I trust in science. Why? Because the theories can be tested over and over. Possibly not in all circumstances. But those untestable theories are built, based on observational tested theories', results. They will also adapt new theories and understandings based on outcomes reached...adapting and changing to fit the results.

The bible was written by men, who test each other, over and over. It remains constant. It was never mans' job to govern the bible and its' meanings. It should be left to the God they believe in. Have your faith and beliefs. Just don't kill me, because I don't believe the same. I would rather not be called narrow minded because I don't want your answer to the universe. That is not a question that drives me.

What drives me, personally, is the legacy I and my kids leave behind. For any who ask how I could have any morals without faith in a deity or words in a book? I've been down a lot of ugly roads in my life. The path of goodness feels a lot better.

But it is my opinion and if I apply logic as I understand it..then I'm doing alright and it aint your business...haha.

Some say Bill Nye won...but again, I'm not sure how I feel about this whole thing.