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Moscow school shooting: Policeman, teacher killed, hostages released

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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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According to Lifenews, Gordeev had a conflict with the school’s 29-year-old geography teacher, Andrey Kirillov.

"I need the geography teacher," Sergey said, threatening the security guard with a rifle and a hunting gun.

"He shot the teacher in the stomach, checked whether he was alive, and then shot him in the head," the student's classmate told Lifenews.

The security guard managed to call the police. When authorities arrived, he showed the officers to the classroom, and the high school student opened fire at them, killing 38-year-old policeman Sergey Bushuyev and wounding another policeman, Vladimir Krokhin, 29, in the shoulder.

Gordeev released all the hostages about an hour later, after his father joined in the talks along with the

Russian police NEGOTIATE with school shooter who killed one of their own!

I kept rereading this article to confirm that the shooter was actually detained alive because I can't believe that he wasn't shot. Maybe I'm jaded by how American police deal with these tragic situations but this shooter shot a Russian police officer. When something like that happens here, it's so very rare that the shooter is detained alive. I just have a hard time comprehending how the shooter opens fire on a group of officers and doesn't get shot. Were they not armed? Why did they enter the building before securing it?

Not to imply that the shooter should be shot but clearly it is possible to negotiate with shooters. Do we even attempt to do that anymore?

Please don't point out the specificity that the shooter's father did the actual negotiating, not a Russian Police officer, because it's obvious that the police allowed the father to do so and thereby facilitated a negotiation.

I don't think we have enough specifics as to why/how/when hostages were taken and how that situation played into choices made by the police. I'm not insinuating any conspiracy theory at all. Just pointing out the contrast in how American police deal with shooters. Have we stopped expecting, and perhaps even have stopped permitting, non-violent methods? Or is this situation not even comparable?





edit on 2/3/2014 by semperfortis because: Copy the EXACT Headline




posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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As an American, I will freely admit that I am completely out of my depth when it comes to Russians and their ways of life.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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Is this a real event shooting or another fake like Sandy Hook?

Just asking!

Has Russia got a Gun Control policy in place? Don't think it's like the US.

Probably more like the UK where Guns are heavily restricted! I have a Gun but only a .22 for shooting vermin on my land. Took a long time to get the license. Don't know much about Russian Gun laws!
edit on 3/2/2014 by stevcolx because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by someoneinnyc
 


That is the way to go in my eyes, the right way. Generally in most European countries (at least the one´s I´ve lived at), shooting at the criminal is considered the last option, after everything else has already been tried and there simply is no other options left and whatever the shooter did, still police generally publicly apologises to the family. If the criminal died then it is an extreme humiliation to the police station and a huge scandal usually arises, as it is considered incompetence by the officers. Whatever the criminal does,even Breivik-like, he still deserves a fair trial, not an execution by some trigger-happy LEO or execution accepted by trial, no one has the right to take someone else´s life. Capital punishment is abolished in every European country (except Belarus).

For example, tn Germany in 2012 only 36 bullets total were used by police officers, 80 million population on the area smaller than Alaska, Texas, California or Montana. In many countries though police officers are not allowed to carry weapons.

Despite the casualties the police generally did a good job this time, and did not lose their nerve or go in with vengeance. Killing the criminal would not have brought the dead police officer back, attack though could have ended with other casualties as well. Respect for the job.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Well said!



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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Maybe I'm wrong but this shooting seems different then most America school shooting with most American school shootings the shooter doesn't have hostages rounded up and doesn't allows the police time to negotiate, he just starts shooting and doesn't stop until he's commits suicide or is shot by police. I'm sure if this same situation happened in America the police would of used the Crisis negotiation technique instead of going in guns blazing.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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AfterInfinity
As an American, I will freely admit that I am completely out of my depth when it comes to Russians and their ways of life.


I don't know either. My posts questions whether they are armed are not. I tried a cursory google search but got nothing clear because I don't know what type of officer was dispatched to the scene. We need a russian poster to tell us how they do it there. It may not be apples to apples.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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stevcolx
Is this a real event shooting or another fake like Sandy Hook?

Just asking!

Has Russia got a Gun Control policy in place? Don't think it's like the US.

Probably more like the UK where Guns are heavily restricted! I have a Gun but only a .22 for shooting vermin on my land. Took a long time to get the license. Don't know much about Russian Gun laws!
edit on 3/2/2014 by stevcolx because: (no reason given)


Doesn't seem fake. It was also posted on BBC but. You think it was staged? For what purpose?

No, I don't know the gun laws there or if the police they dispatched were armed. The BBC article doesn't mention armed or unarmed police officers either.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Thank you for that insight about the different public expectations on how police use arms in other countries. That is so very different that America, unfortunately. We are so quick to justify the violent responses here. It is so common that we now have "suicide by cop" where someone intentionally shoots at officers expecting to be killed.

Do you know if Russian police are typically armed? I can't tell from the articles.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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nancyliedersdeaddog
Maybe I'm wrong but this shooting seems different then most America school shooting with most American school shootings the shooter doesn't have hostages rounded up and doesn't allows the police time to negotiate, he just starts shooting and doesn't stop until he's commits suicide or is shot by police. I'm sure if this same situation happened in America the police would of used the Crisis negotiation technique instead of going in guns blazing.


I'd like to think so too, that American police in a similar situation would use negotiation but, sadly, I don't have confidence they would from what I've read about but I don't have a comprehensive memory of all of them. Are there any recent examples of negotiation that have been attempted? I should research it. ITA that the situation may have been very different in this Russian incident but we are usually not given enough details to know. Some also wonder about the reliability of any details we are given in American incidents.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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someoneinnyc

nancyliedersdeaddog
Maybe I'm wrong but this shooting seems different then most America school shooting with most American school shootings the shooter doesn't have hostages rounded up and doesn't allows the police time to negotiate, he just starts shooting and doesn't stop until he's commits suicide or is shot by police. I'm sure if this same situation happened in America the police would of used the Crisis negotiation technique instead of going in guns blazing.


I'd like to think so too, that American police in a similar situation would use negotiation but, sadly, I don't have confidence they would from what I've read about but I don't have a comprehensive memory of all of them. Are there any recent examples of negotiation that have been attempted? I should research it. ITA that the situation may have been very different in this Russian incident but we are usually not given enough details to know. Some also wonder about the reliability of any details we are given in American incidents.

I don't know when the last hostage negotiations was but I will post a link that talks about the success of hostage negotiations in America, It says " Fewer than 20 percent of law enforcement critical incidents deal with actual hostage taking, and most crises are successfully resolved without loss of life. In fact, containment and negotiation strategies yield a 95 percent success rate in terms of resolving a hostage crisis without fatalities to either hostages or hostage-takers (HTs), which is a remarkable statistic for any form of lifesaving crisis intervention strategy." I think it's great people shouldn't trust the details we get when it comes from American incidents but they should also feel the same way about Russia. To be fair their has also been a good number of American cases where the mass shooter was taken alive.

Link: www.policeone.com...
edit on 3-2-2014 by nancyliedersdeaddog because: (no reason given)



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