Hobby Lobby May Close All 500+ Stores in 41 States

grey580
reply to post by Bone75

 

Oh my brain.

There's a zillion other regulations on the books in this country for businesses but somehow this one here is a deal breaker? BS.

And they are basing their decision on an assumption that someone "MIGHT" take one of these pills.

I find it highly ironic that these guys are using their first amendment right to take away the right of someone else to make a choice about their life.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Your rights do not give you the right to take away the rights of others. That your rights begin where my rights end and vice versa.

And this sets a precedent. Christians can say no to contraceptives. Now can Jews refuse to employ people because they aren't circumcised?

edit on 3-2-2014 by grey580 because: (no reason given)

This has been explained to you - health insurance is NOT a right. It is at best a benefit provided by your employer. He is under no obligation to provide you anything in your health insurance, and he's not under any obligation to even provide you that.

Birth control is also not a right.

Now, no one, NO ONE, is stopping anyone who works at Hobby Lobby from taking any birth control, not now, not ever. No one is stopping anyone from that. They simply aren't providing a policy that covers it by providing funding for it. This is not denying anyone anything. You can still go and buy any kind of contraceptive you wish, right up to a late term abortion, if you so choose, and the evil old Hobby Lobby boogeyman can't stop you or fire you or anything, but it's very hypocritical of you to say that he has every right to choose not buy a contraceptive and then demand that he pay for yours.

ketsuko
reply to post by Flatfish

 

Well I suppose we should just move to an entirely centrally planned and government run economy then because the moment a person does not have the right to run their business as they see fit, we are definitely no longer anything resembling a free market. Why not let Obama build that as he claims?

NO, but this is precisely why healthcare insurance should not be tied to employment. It allows the employer to force his own religious biases upon those in his employ. I guess you'd also agree with the various state proposals, like this one from Arizona, that would allow business to openly discriminate against their patrons for belonging to the LGBT community, being single mothers and/or those of different religions.

www.hrc.org...

On Thursday, Arizona State Rep. Steve Yarbrough's proposed legislation that, if passed, would allow businesses to refuse services to the LGBT community on the basis of religious freedom passed the Senate Committee on Government and Education.

The bill, SB1062, could be used to protect business that discriminate not only again the LGBT community but also unmarried women or those of different religions. According to Rep. Yarbrough, SB1062 could broadly be interpreted to allow, for example, a motel to refuse service to a same-sex couple on the grounds that it would “substantially burden” their freedom of religion.

"Medicare for all" and/or a "public option" would solve this problem and I've always felt that we will eventually morph the ACA into just that. The really ironic part is, I'm now beginning to believe that it may just be the GOP who ends up proposing it. Now how funny is that?

I even heard Carly Fiorina, (former CEO of HP and republican senate candidate) make a statement to that effect the other night on Real Time with Bill Maher. She stated straight up, that a public-option would be better than what we have now and I couldn't agree more. I just never expected to hear it coming from a republican.

reply to post by Bone75

No Christian should be forced to pay for someone's contraception. Period.

But it's ok for an employer to force their religious beliefs on their employees huh? Do you support Christians paying for Viagra seeing how many insurance companies will pay for it? Funny how you don't hear these "Christians" complaining about that. And it is the insurance companies that pays for the contraception the employer pays one lump sum not this portion goes to this and this portion goes to that. My sympathies goes out to the employees of this person that thinks the world should follow his religion. When will Americans who think like him wake up and realize that America is not a Christian nation and will never be a Christian nation. This country already has too many laws based on this religion already.

reply to post by buster2010


They don't give employees a bible or a prayer rug. They also don't take them away. They also give them the freedom to find employment somewhere that has an insurance policy they would like better.

Hoosierdaddy71
This is also a man that closes his stores on Sunday so that the employees can go to church with their families. Good for him for sticking to his beliefs.

Don't you mean lack of beliefs? His religion tells him he is not allowed to use contraceptives no where in the bible does it say he is not allowed to pay for someone else's contraceptives.

reply to post by Flatfish


So in other words, people would stop being compelled to take part in practices that they feel violate their conscience? You realize that medical professionals already have this kind of legal protection? Do you disagree with allowing them their freedom of conscience? Should a doctor who believes that an abortion for the sake of convenience is murder be compelled to carry one out anyhow?

reply to post by Flatfish


Agreed.

They aren't about liberty or morality..just politics and publicity . Do they care if their cash paying customers have had an abortion? I doubt it.

Close I say...put up or shut up.

reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71


Or he could just sell his store chain. Instead he wants to close it down, hurting every employee and every supplier. That's where he crosses the line from self-righteous to selfish.

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
This is also a man that closes his stores on Sunday so that the employees can go to church with their families. Good for him for sticking to his beliefs.

Don't you mean lack of beliefs? His religion tells him he is not allowed to use contraceptives no where in the bible does it say he is not allowed to pay for someone else's contraceptives.

If you believe that contraception is murder, then paying for it is like paying for murder. That sort of violates the whole "Thou shalt not murder" bit. I understand how hard that may be for some of you to understand, but those of us who believe that life begins before birth don't exactly like being accessories to murder.

Aleister
reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71

 

Or he could just sell his store chain. Instead he wants to close it down, hurting every employee and every supplier. That's where he crosses the line from self-righteous to selfish.

It's his business. He's under no obligation to sell it. Why should he have to? Leave him alone and it stays open.

Hobby Lobby May Close All 500+ Stores in 41 States

...meanwhile, Michales MJ Designs lurks in the shadows, wringing their hands, waiting for Hobby Lobby to hold true to their word.

I buy lots of things for my art work from the hobby lobby because in my city there are lots of pretty hot girls that work there and they all know what I am looking for and are nice! I hope this isn't going to pass!

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by buster2010

 

They don't give employees a bible or a prayer rug. They also don't take them away. They also give them the freedom to find employment somewhere that has an insurance policy they would like better.

Nice to see you admit you support discrimination. Is there anything else you would like forced on people? How about stoning a unruly child or making a slave of a girl that has never lain with a man. Those are in the bible why isn't this guy doing those things? Is he just another one of those pick and choose Christians?

Sremmos80
reply to post by Flatfish

 

No one is making you work for them to give them the ability to get into your rights. The government is FORCING this on EVERYONE. This is just about letting a company run the same way it has been running in the past and not forcing them to provide something they don't have to provide.

You're absolutely right and no one is forcing me to shop there either, which I don't. (by the way, no one is forcing them to stay in business either and if they don't like the game, they are free to get out.)

Unfortunately, some people are more desperate than I and they may be inclined to take that job if it's the only thing available. Their personal desperation should not be an open invitation for religious discrimination.

This is no different than the businesses of old that refused to do business with black patrons, forcing them to either do without or travel undue distances to find someone willing to provide them with the service or product they were seeking. (something that Ran Paul libertarians currently support despite the fact that it's been illegal for decades.) It's pathetic, it's deplorable and it should not be allowed under any circumstances.

It's ideology like this that will insure that the Libertarian party will never get in the White House and it isn't doing any favors for the mainstream GOP either.

What Obama is implementing above congress and everyone else is an exercise in dictatorial rule with the ACA that the majority didn't even want. It is a test of all America to see just how much they can get away with. They are winning all across the board. Not even impeachment has happened to the pig's dog that calls himself president, yet.

Our entire country is being run by total cowards who care more about their continued income of graft that they take to their offshore accounts.
The only hope now is for everyone to arm themselves as much as possible and get some body armor too.

Is it really this bad? Have you seen the evil grin on Obama's face lately? How about Looking into Eric Holder's eyes and just seeing a blank vegetable inside? How many have already died by their orders?

reply to post by Aleister


Get your check book out and make an offer. Lol
At 1.3 million a day for a fine I'm sure putting it on the market for six months to a year would be rather costly,

ketsuko

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
This is also a man that closes his stores on Sunday so that the employees can go to church with their families. Good for him for sticking to his beliefs.

Don't you mean lack of beliefs? His religion tells him he is not allowed to use contraceptives no where in the bible does it say he is not allowed to pay for someone else's contraceptives.

If you believe that contraception is murder, then paying for it is like paying for murder. That sort of violates the whole "Thou shalt not murder" bit. I understand how hard that may be for some of you to understand, but those of us who believe that life begins before birth don't exactly like being accessories to murder.

So you are saying that a woman should become pregnant with every cycle? Birth control keeps a woman from getting pregnant so there is no killing here. It's easy to see why people are backing this guy because they have no idea what birth control really is and what it is used for. And you must really be upset with God seeing how many babies he kills every year by way of miscarriages.

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by buster2010

 

They don't give employees a bible or a prayer rug. They also don't take them away. They also give them the freedom to find employment somewhere that has an insurance policy they would like better.

Nice to see you admit you support discrimination. Is there anything else you would like forced on people? How about stoning a unruly child or making a slave of a girl that has never lain with a man. Those are in the bible why isn't this guy doing those things? Is he just another one of those pick and choose Christians?

Actually I'm an atheist that supports people's rights to their own religious beliefs. If his employee handbook mandated a prayer meeting every day I'd have a problem with that. He's not paying for the morning after pill because he feels its murder. He may choose to close his business instead of justifying what he feels is murder. His employees are free to use birth control if they wish. That's not discrimination.

ketsuko

If you believe that contraception is murder, then paying for it is like paying for murder. That sort of violates the whole "Thou shalt not murder" bit. I understand how hard that may be for some of you to understand, but those of us who believe that life begins before birth don't exactly like being accessories to murder.

Actually, I don't think it has anything to do with "paying" for the coverage because, according to numerous studies on the subject, contraceptive coverage is "cost neutral" for the provider and in many cases results in a cost savings. This is about Bible thumping morons attempting to force their ideology and religious beliefs on their employees.

Apparently, this is rapidly becoming the Only way to perpetuate their beliefs, by forcing them on others.

Oh yeah, if by any stretch of the imagination, contraception was declared to be murder, somewhere in the neighborhood of 98% of all women in America are guilty. What a joke!

buster2010

ketsuko

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
This is also a man that closes his stores on Sunday so that the employees can go to church with their families. Good for him for sticking to his beliefs.

Don't you mean lack of beliefs? His religion tells him he is not allowed to use contraceptives no where in the bible does it say he is not allowed to pay for someone else's contraceptives.

If you believe that contraception is murder, then paying for it is like paying for murder. That sort of violates the whole "Thou shalt not murder" bit. I understand how hard that may be for some of you to understand, but those of us who believe that life begins before birth don't exactly like being accessories to murder.

So you are saying that a woman should become pregnant with every cycle? Birth control keeps a woman from getting pregnant so there is no killing here. It's easy to see why people are backing this guy because they have no idea what birth control really is and what it is used for. And you must really be upset with God seeing how many babies he kills every year by way of miscarriages.

No the actual argument is that women who need birth control go take care of their wishes by buying their own whatever. I don't see free condoms anywhere. Are you supporting the notion that You are willing to pay for my condoms? Send me a PM and I'll give shipping info so you can send me a box.